America At War?
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122 Responses
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Be respectful of others and their opinions. Inflammatory remarks and inane leftist drivel will be deleted. It ain’t about free speech, remember you’re in a private domain. My website, my prerogative.
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Exactly true.
And on March 17th, I’ll be at The Mall in D.C.
I wish I could do as much as Pat is doing for the troops.
March 1st, 2007 at 2:44 pmthe marine corps ARE at war, not Is
March 1st, 2007 at 3:01 pmA perfect example, of just how Americans go about their normal everyday lives and don’t really think about our servicemen and women doing their duty. It’s unfortunate something like that even has to posted somewhere. There are many of us who keep you in our thoughts everyday. God Bless and God Speed!
March 1st, 2007 at 3:44 pmSad but true. I remember not too long ago when an editorialist called Americans “war weary”. You have to ask yourself how that can be. Other than the people who fight and their families us American have not been asked to make any sacrafices. Even a little higher gas prices have causes non-stop whining. I would certainly trade higher gas prices to stop the Islamist threat. Thank God we still have Marines and soldiers willing risk everthing to secure our security. All they ask for in return is our support. And they are smart enough to know that when someone says “I support the troops, but not the war” it is a crock. Support them, support their mission and say thank you!!!!
March 1st, 2007 at 4:16 pmTo use an old cliche, that is a perfect example of how a picture can speak a thousand words. How sadly true that is.
March 1st, 2007 at 4:19 pmJust heard about your site from M. Malkin. Great posts, and even better live footage! Thank you for the glimpse you give Americans like myself of the war. I can almost taste the dust, almost. I going to be praying for you every day now, for safety which ever side of the fish bowl you happen to be on.
March 1st, 2007 at 5:33 pmThanks,
J
Finishing up college, then heading to the Navy to fly for them, and I can’t freaking wait to get out of here. What those Marines wrote is so right on the money. I can’t stand it here in college, can’t stand watching a bunch of stupid kids drinking until they passout, sitting on their butts watching crappy shows on MTV, and then when they hear about what I am going to do say: “That is so cool. Man I would go over there if…(insert lame comment trying to sound like a bad ass so they don’t lose face).” I would rather be out in surf freezing my ass off doing PT with my shipmates who will back me up anytime, than spending another minute with these retards who are only worried about where the next party is going to be and how much alcohol their livers can take before they graduate.
March 1st, 2007 at 6:08 pmThat’s funny. I wouldn’t write Marine Corps (Air Force) but the point is made.
March 1st, 2007 at 6:36 pmI think of these men and women everyday. I pray for them everyday. I defend their mission everyday against the weak of mind and soul. God bless you. God speed. There are those of us in this country who respect you.
March 1st, 2007 at 6:58 pmI will be at he mall on March 17th, standing up to those who don’t.
Thank God for the Marines and the rest of our armed forces. Since Monkey has nothing better to do than try to correct grammar “Marine Corps” is singular so “is at war” is correct. The Marines are a single unit and fight as a single unit.
Great Job Pat.
March 1st, 2007 at 8:54 pmI am so glad to see that posted. Since the last surge, many of my freinds have left for the desert, and I think of them all. I hope they come back safely, with no holes. My brother jumped in to Iraq when this first went down, and i can’t think of a better group of guys to support than our troops. screw the naysayers, to hell with the liberals, and I hope Nancy Pelosi and all the whiners choke on their lavishy extravagant lifestyles(that our troops are dying to protect)soon.
March 1st, 2007 at 9:35 pmain’t that the truth
March 1st, 2007 at 9:51 pmSad, but very true. Still, while most Americans have their heads in the sand, true Americans do exist and DO care that our brave soldiers are sacrificing their lives for us. I’m in college, but I will NEVER fall for this liberal propaganda crap on the MSM. Keep fighting boys! We’re behind you AND your mission! Ryan, best of luck in the Navy. America needs more men like you.
March 1st, 2007 at 10:12 pmVery true. Though I doubt that there would still be a war if the people would have felt it from the beginning. “War weariness” would probalby have struck after half a year.
Of course the war in Iraq affects every American, but, apat from those who lose their children, husbands and wives, only very indirectly through the budget.
March 2nd, 2007 at 12:44 amBest quote since 2003. Ranks up there with “First Baghdad, Then Paris.” (painted on an M-1 Abrams)
March 2nd, 2007 at 12:51 amRyan, dont get too pissed off “they know not what they do”The American public is as above, they are fed a crock by the mainstream media who are like the media in Sweden or Australia, beholden to the political elite, not told of the real situation, denied the right to speak up and be heard due to pressure applied to the media.
March 2nd, 2007 at 2:43 amMorlock: the war affected eveyone in the non mus world not just Americans, those of us that realise what is really going on are rooting for the US military to get the job done, but can see that the antiwar American congress is doing its best to wrest control from those whose duty is to prosecute the war to their best ability and to cut and run. THis may be called “Bringing the soldiers home” but that will only embolden the islamists as it show that the American public is weak and cannot withstand a concerted effort, that they are more interested in their own comfort than in their own safety. More power to the troops on the ground I wish them all the best and god speed to victory.
TS, an Australian and a proud sponser of America and their soldiers in Iraq
But is that not why our military fights? The American lifestyle (malls and all) is why we need our soldiers and why they defend the country they love. Comforted that their families and they themselves are able to come home and live free and enjoy all the wonders of our great country because of their dedication to duty as did their fathers and their fathers before them. Because they are on guard for us their great granddaughters can go to the malls in the future without fear and their contribution made the differance. Never underestimate the love and appreciation Americans have for their troops.
March 2nd, 2007 at 4:02 am“Of course the war in Iraq affects every American, but, apat from those who lose their children, husbands and wives, only very indirectly through the budget.”
You’ve had to cut back on a few things? The WOT is a testament to the strength of the American Economic system and the Capitalist system. This war, which you have said has cost at least a half trillion dollars; hasn’t caused domestic shortages of anything but maybe body armor, which doesn’t exactly have huge civilian market, and there hasn’t been any rationing that I have even heard of.
Or did you mean by the loss of a source of income? In which case only the loss of a father or mother husband/wife would really make a difference unless the kids we’re supporting you. Regardless, it isn’t like we deploy for free. Two words; *hazard pay*.
March 2nd, 2007 at 4:54 amAs I said, very indirect consequences. Just the fact that that half-trillion could have been spent elsewhere (education, health services, research, you name it) affects the American population. Also, the war made the goal of balancing the budget a more distant one. Those are all costs that affect the country in some way, sooner or later.
March 2nd, 2007 at 5:39 amMorlock we could have used that money to pay social security to illegal aliens or other use liberal handouts to people who dont deserve charity from our taxes. Providing for the common defence is in the constitution. We are spending trillions already doing training while at peace. this is live training. we are not actually spending much more than normal.
since most of the taxes come from the wealthy and since the liberals want us to belive that all republicans are wealthy, then i suggest letting us spend our money on government programs of our choosing and butt out.
And if we want tax cuts, then hey even better, then we can invest in our own research or donate our money to charities to give handouts and provide health care.
Liberals only care about government money precisely because it isnt their money.
March 2nd, 2007 at 6:06 amThe sad fact is that for many years before the war more than ten times half-trillion has been spent on education, health services, research, you name it and what have we got for our money? America’s youth is un-educated, morally deprived and over sexed.
We provide “free schoolin” for everybody who chooses to take advantage of it without question, however being book smart “ain’t not cool.” Bling bling, hip hop and having three baby’s moma’s moma’s momas is where it’s at yo’.
There’s nothing wrong with the health service. Those same youth can get their free VD shot or abortion at any morals and values corrosive free clinic, anywhere across America, along with their next pack of free condoms.
Research? Are you kidding? I didn’t realize that because of the money spent in Iraq that the rest of the third world was surpassing the great United States of America in creating life saving vaccines and anything else that benevolently saves the lives of millions of people throughout the world, who by the way will never say thank you or contribute to our benefit as they pick up their anti the “Great Satan” poster and march off to the next “Pink Lady/Cindy Sheehan” sponsored anti-war rally.
Give me a break.
March 2nd, 2007 at 6:38 amThe something for nothing principle.
March 2nd, 2007 at 7:36 amMorlock, read up on your history Pal. Wars have ended recessions, not started them. Wars push modern medicine towards the future, providing new more effective trauma care at your local ER. Wars thin the heard, and cull a lot of turds from the masses. I’m talking about the cynics and elitist naysayers that thing taking a moral middle ground makes them better. Another trillion on education and health care? Yeah so they can waste that too. You know where that tax money goes in education? Educators pockets, pet projects and research grants that yield NOTHING. Funny, its the same educators that are anti-american greenparty card holding sycophants.
All I want is a line item on the on the 1040 that I can write in,”FOR MORE BEER AND BULLETS FOR THE CORPS”.
March 2nd, 2007 at 9:31 amIts a shame thats so true.. Us as American citizens should be backing our boys up, not shooting them down for doing what is right. HOOAH
March 2nd, 2007 at 9:46 amRemember Our Guys…
Don’t forget to get over and visit Pat Dollard’s site, you can watch a clip from his documentary “Young Americans”. Also visit Bill’s Bites for information on the Gathering of Eagles, which will be in Washington, D.C. on March 17th.
……
March 2nd, 2007 at 11:18 amMore money has been spent on the “War on Poverty” than on the war on terrorism. It has been a disaster. The worst domestic policy decision in history. It has been a quagmire and cost us billions of dollars and millions of lives due to crime rates that have risen in those area’s of povery occupation. I think it’s time we redeploy and move all those social service workers out of East LA.
NO WAR FOR FOOD STAMPS
March 2nd, 2007 at 12:03 pmI would donate to that line item! and one for the other services too.
March 2nd, 2007 at 1:59 pmf- tha mall.
support our troops. thought we got into this war to win.
tax dollars well spent… wish there was a line where we could choose where all our $’s would actually go.
Keep it comin’
March 2nd, 2007 at 5:01 pmWhat a Picture - What a Thought…
America At War?Pat Dollard picture. Great Stuff!!…
March 3rd, 2007 at 8:25 amMorlock said:
“Also, the war made the goal of balancing the budget a more distant one.”
The fact is that tax receipts since the war began have increased by an amount substantially in excess of the costs of the war.
Tax receipts from 2001 to this year have increased from $1.991 trillion to $2.540 trillon — which is an increase of $549 billion dollars. Defense spending (which includes the costs of the war) over the same period has increased from $304.8 billion to $606.5 billion, an increase of $301.7 billion. So the increase in tax revenues is almost double the increase in defense spending.
Don’t blame budget defecits on defense spending.
Here is a link where you can look up the numbers yourself:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2008/pdf/hist.pdf
Had Congress and the President been able to hold spending in check for so-called “social costs”, the budget could now be in balance.
March 3rd, 2007 at 1:05 pmDamn strait america needs to stop thinking and needs to get off there ass and do something .
March 3rd, 2007 at 1:45 pmAmerica isn’t like it used to be. America has been taken over by the media. They’ve been taken over and assimilated by Hollywood and idiots. If every US citizen was in the military, this would be a greater country.
March 3rd, 2007 at 2:14 pmI just wanted to say that I got back from the mall and I’m swearing into the Corps on Tuesday. Hoo-rah!
Seriously, I’ve been thinking about it for years; last fall, I almost joined, but I was too fat, and I put it out of my mind for a few months. Now, I’m at my proper weight, and I’m ready to embrace the suck.
I’m 24, and I cannot wait to go to boot camp. There are tons of reasons why I’m joining, but I have to say that patdollard.com was an small inspiration to me. I can no longer be a young, capable man with some idea of whats going on in the world and not get into the fight. I’m sick of being in the audience.
Pat, I’d send you a few bucks for your movie, but I don’t have any cash to give. I hope, however, you are heartened by my decision, and the knowledge that your actions and your website played a part (small, but not insignificant).
I cannot fucking wait to be a Marine.
March 3rd, 2007 at 5:38 pmTruer words have never been written…
March 3rd, 2007 at 9:18 pmMorlock – “Just the fact that that half-trillion could have been spent elsewhere (education, health services, research, you name it) affects the American population. Also, the war made the goal of balancing the budget a more distant one. Those are all costs that affect the country in some way, sooner or later.”
Yea, let’s not worry about that whole ‘protecting the country’ thing. That really gets in the way, doesn’t it? If the lefties ensure our defeat, which they are aiming to do, I can tell you where ‘education, health services and research’ will end up. I am betting you won’t like it.
March 3rd, 2007 at 9:22 pmWas just at MCRD last weekend for a graduation (HOO-RAH) You guys are FRICKIN’ AWESOME> I so appreciate what you are doing so that my family can be safe today. I think about you, pray for you and actively participate in Soldier’s Angel’s and any shout out I hear about for help. It is sad but true that most of the citizens of these once great United States haven’t a clue as to what’s going on. I heard it once said that if they paid as much attention to the situation in Iraq as they do to American Idol we’d be a lot better off. I vote for two years mandatory conscription after high school and before college. Everyone, period. Then you are held in reserve for the next four. America has to start sacrificing again for the freedom she so tritely takes for granted lately. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY. Keep your head down and shoot straight! Semper Fi!
March 3rd, 2007 at 10:00 pm[…] Funny pic from Irak over on Pat Dollard’s site. […]
March 4th, 2007 at 9:10 am“the masses are asses.” -Pietry
It’s good that America is at the mall. That’s where they should stay. Leave the war to the fighters. If your not a warrior, then stay at your malls, drinking you juices with your fem-boosts. Don’t get in our way.
March 4th, 2007 at 10:57 amMonkey….
The Marine’s ARE at war…
The Marine Corps IS at war…
The Marin Corps (despite the “S”) is a single entity. The “MARINE’S” is plural…
March 4th, 2007 at 5:42 pmMonkey,
When I first read your correction, it made sense however, in retrospect, even though Corps is plural, the marines as an entity is singular like army , navy. air force, and coast guard. The army is… therefore, the marine corps is…
March 4th, 2007 at 9:48 pm[…] Via Pat Dollard’s: Young Americans » America At War? […]
March 5th, 2007 at 1:49 pmPoem: Hide and Seek in Iraq
“it’s a game my son, a game can’t you see”
Viewed from a far away place
“Come now hide with me”
Through a square may be construed as fiction rather than reality
“Come lie with me son, in here but don’t breath”
From the chair to the square a fireworks display
“Father why do my ears bleed”
The creation of this game I will truely never know or begin to understand
“My son I’ve always loved you, but now are game is up”
March 5th, 2007 at 4:43 pmNo more lives for this father and son, surely a game this is not.
Have another beer.
March 5th, 2007 at 8:03 pm“America is not at war.The Marine Corps is at war;America is at the mall”
I hear ya bro,but millions of Americans are at war here at home,fighting the same fight Pat is trying to do against the shoppers in the mall,feeling safe because the media tells them the bad guys are a certain party that got us into a mess,oh hell,green day CD’s are on sale,gotta get back to the tube to catch Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert.
Millions of us that don’t buy into the bullshit we’re fed,they said that my baby boomer generation was bad,then came “gen X”,now its the “millenium generation” in the malls,while the cream of their generation is deployed,I’ve got three sons,one in middle,one in high and one in college,when they go to the malls they damn well know its because others in their generation with the balls stepped up to the plate so they can shop without worring about getting blown up
March 6th, 2007 at 1:00 am“Have another beer.”
March 6th, 2007 at 1:03 amI just did,thanks Pat.
BTW Pat,if you ever need help on your next visit let me know,I’m your age with a bad back,prior service but can still keep up with you and the grunts but the recruiters turned me away 9-12 because of job injury,just let me bring my Springfield XD as backup and I’m good to go,many more like me,I’m having another brain grenade,kampie/top-she-dah!
March 6th, 2007 at 1:18 amI agree with an earlier post that it is the intent of the military to be at war or ready for war so that the civilian populous can go to the mall but I feel there is a deeper meaning here. What the picture shows in how irate the military is at the populous for not supporting them. I’m ready to smack down the next person who tells me they’re “for the soldier but not the war”. A more duplicitous statement I have never heard. Why not just give the &*#@ing jihadist a pat on the back and tell him what a good job he’s doing. By the way, does anyone else find it ironic (and fitting) that unlike the Vietnam era where the civilians were pissed at the military, now, the military is pissed at the civilians. WAKE UP AMERICA!!
March 6th, 2007 at 7:52 amhey monkey;
are, is , you still get the point.
DON’T YOU
March 6th, 2007 at 8:49 amJarhead,
recession and deficit spending are only indirectly connected. Many wars lead to an immediately rise of the GDP. You can think it as money being distributed from the tax payers pocket to those companies that benefit from the war. Much of the half trillion spent on the war in Iraq stays in the system, going to companies that offer equipment and services to the military or contractors that take part in the reconstruction of the country. The latter also benefit from Iraqi revenues. AFAIK only a small part of these contractors are Iraqi companies.
The deficit affects people very indirectly, and often with a delay of many years. And as for where the money should go - elsewhere I have raised my doubts in the whole “the war protecting the US” arguments. I am not going to start the same discussion again on this page, for the sake of this guestbook.
March 6th, 2007 at 11:42 am“recession and deficit spending are only indirectly connected. Many wars lead to an immediately rise of the GDP. You can think it as money being distributed from the tax payers pocket to those companies that benefit from the war.”
You honestly think that? The spending was voted for by Congress, the tax payers elected Representatives. Those “companies” aren’t fiscal black holes. The money that goes to them is then spent again. Paying employees, and subcontracting other companies for services rendered. The money trickles down to the rest of the economy. A large part of our industries benefit everyday from this war. You make it sound like a bad thing.
Much of the half trillion spent on the war in Iraq stays in the system, going to companies that offer equipment and services to the military or contractors that take part in the reconstruction of the country. The latter also benefit from Iraqi revenues. AFAIK only a small part of these contractors are Iraqi companies.”
Key statement, AFAYK. TCNs are a crucial part of those “evil KBR” contracts and the like. Thats third country nationals.
“The deficit affects people very indirectly, and often with a delay of many years. And as for where the money should go - elsewhere I have raised my doubts in the whole “the war protecting the US” arguments.”
You know, it takes 3 years for Executive fiscal policy to manifest itself in the marketplace. President Bush inherited Clinton’s jacked up policies and recession. 60 days after the attacks of 9/11, the market was higher than 9/10. It’s funny, the Dems cry deficit, and recession until they are blue in the face. Yet they live in opulence, building mansions and jetting around in G5’s. Hell, my personal financial situation sucks and I am at least intellectually honest enough to realize that the truth is not contingent upon me.
America is in the Malls because they aren’t afraid of haji blowing up trashcans in the food court. The greatest threat to our economy right now is the Dem’s H.R. bill 10-22 *the new AWBan. If successful, it will crash our economy because it is banning nearly every modern firearm, and most rifle ammunition. You can’t kill one industry without affecting them all. But I digress…
March 6th, 2007 at 2:06 pmI took the oath today. It begins.
I have much to uphold.
March 6th, 2007 at 2:38 pmMonkey:
March 6th, 2007 at 3:27 pmThe individual Marines “are” at war. The Marine Corps “is” at war. Just like the Grunts are at war, but the Army is at war. The way it was written on the board was correct.
As the wife of an army soldier I feel that it’s unfair to say civilians make no sacrifices. I may not agree with the war, but I will always support the soldiers fighting it. My sacrifice is that I have dedicated the next 6 years of my life to following and supporting a soldier, and watching him leave time and time time again. I love my soldier with everything in my soul.
March 6th, 2007 at 4:59 pmCongradulations. And welcome. But you ain’t even out of the treeline yet, let alone woods. When’s your basic and techschool?
March 6th, 2007 at 5:31 pmA Jarhead - “You know, it takes 3 years for Executive fiscal policy to manifest itself in the marketplace. President Bush inherited Clinton’s jacked up policies and recession. 60 days after the attacks of 9/11, the market was higher than 9/10. It’s funny, the Dems cry deficit, and recession until they are blue in the face.”
Why don’t more people realize this? Bush put policies in place where the effects will not show up until years from now, yet whoever is president at that time will get credit for it. Why is this so hard for people to understand? I know why, so that’s really a rhetorical question.
The DOW broke a record once after eight years of Klinton, when he was on the way out. The DOW broke a record what, four times or more while Bush is in office. We don’t hear this from the MSM.
Don - “Millions of us that don’t buy into the bullshit we’re fed…”
We are also fed up. I keep asking what it will take for people to wake up. The attacks of September 11, 2001, and all of the things before and since, apparently weren’t enough. I am hoping this shit with Libby will wake up a few as was stated on Rush and Hannity today. Libby is facing twenty five (25) years in jail yet Sandy Burglar walks free.
To all of the great soldiers of the great United States of America - don’t believe the bullshit you hear from the MSM. The real, thinking citizens of the Unites States are behind you all the way.
March 6th, 2007 at 6:13 pm“The DOW broke a record what, four times or more while Bush is in office. We don’t hear this from the MSM.”
Yes we do, it’s called a recession :rollseyes:
People aren’t waking up any time soon. The entitlement philosophy has corroded our people’s ability to act as individuals; relying on the government to fix everything that comes along, and complaining when they have to face any degree of hardship.
I think we are at this point, less free citizens and more spoiled children.
March 6th, 2007 at 7:35 pmWhat I don’t know is how much Iraqi contractors are involved. I do know that Wolfowitz outlined that contracts for the reconstruction of Iraq should not be open to competition, but go to companies from the US, other Coalition countries, and Iraq. Now many Iraqi companies are not involved because they were state owned.
There are several articles about this. One of them here. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A10640-2004Feb26
Then you have the whole New Bridge Strategies issue, the company run by Bush’s campaign manager. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A30907-2003Oct1
Unfortunately its site went down as a result of all the coverage it received. A link gathering information about the company:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=New_Bridge_Strategies
Note the passage about the law that allows
“The money trickles down to the rest of the economy. A large part of our industries benefit everyday from this war. You make it sound like a bad thing.”
As I said, it stays in the system. Of course it “trickles down to the rest of the economy”, after it’s been poured into those companies.
Oh, and I’m not a fan of the Democrats.
March 6th, 2007 at 7:36 pmI agree. I can highly recommend the movie ‘Idiocracy’. We are headed that way right now I think.
March 6th, 2007 at 7:40 pmI’ll look it up, thanks. And I in turn recommend one of Michael Chrichton’s books, “State of Fear”. Particularly because of one of his sources listed in the bibliography(whose name escapes me, I’ll post it when it comes back). His name is Athenide of Althenide; something like that. But he’s a social scientist who’s field of study is in social dynamics, and his thoughts on the effect of the MSM on people and the “culture of fear” is interesting.
March 6th, 2007 at 8:18 pmThe IMDB doesn’t do it justice, and the cover is different on my DVD.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/
March 6th, 2007 at 8:35 pmSomewhere along the way, people began to equate what the left says about the War on Terror with “The American Public”.
Unfortunately for many who “do not believe in the war”, they fail to realize that there are times when war IS the only answer. Even now, we’re fighting terrorism, both at home and abroad, and yet the main stream media calls these random acts of terror (like the Jewish Center in Seattle, the SUV driver in the Carolinas, and the Mall murderer in Utah the other day) “non-terror related”.
While we’re fighting this war, China is preparing an even bigger war for us. People are mostly oblivious. While we are fighting this war on terror, Russia is pulling back and regrouping… and Americans remain, for the most part, oblivious.
Chavez in Argentina is making deals with Iran. Iran is pushing for nuclear power, and almost certainly nuclear weapons. And Americans remain mostly oblivious.
Congress has focused on removing us from the world stage, preventing our troops from doing their jobs, and yet those same people who ran on “Hate Bush” campaigns claiming Bush wasn’t giving the troops enough, are planning on removing what the troops have now.
Pat is right… Marines… Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen are fighting a war. Americans are at the mall, oblivious to the world around them.
March 7th, 2007 at 7:15 amWhat exactly should us civilians do? Did not the same thing occur during Korea and Vietnam? When the “terrorists” attack on land in the US with an invasion I will be glad to suit up.
March 7th, 2007 at 9:25 amBy the way whatever you do don’t listen to Mr AIPAC Mike Savage. He is an insane paranoid and very pro Israel. He acts like an invasion of US soil is immenant
March 7th, 2007 at 9:27 am“Sara
As the wife of an army soldier I feel that it’s unfair to say civilians make no sacrifices. I may not agree with the war, but I will always support the soldiers fighting it. My sacrifice is that I have dedicated the next 6 years of my life to following and supporting a soldier, and watching him leave time and time time again. I love my soldier with everything in my soul.
March 6th, 2007 at 4:59 pm ”
I respect your commitment and it is very important that women like you support soldiers, and I don’t think any of us refer to you or women like you when we talk about the lack of support for the war. I think the problem with society as a whole though is this;
Americans are “war weary”. How the F___ are Americans war weary? This war has not affected anyones life in any way(unless you know a soldier who has died or been injured). We are war weary, so the msm claims, yet we have sacrificed nothing. The soldiers and their families sacrifice, but not the population. There are no nation wide can drives or metal drives to come up with materials for way. There is no rationing to supply troops with their needed materials. There are no war taxes. If everyone really “supports the troops” then lets tack on a tax to pay for dragon armor and strykers for all the soldiers in Iraq. Lets start can drives and fund raisers to pay for extra equipment for the soldiers. Everyone “supports the troops”. It’s in style this year, the yellow ribbons compliment the Macys spring collections and look great on your SUV. I don’t know WTF a yellow ribbon on a car in the states does for a guy getting shot at in Iraq. “support the troops” but elect leaders who have contempt for the military and want us to fail in Iraq. Want all the young men to die in vain so they can have political victory. Thats the problem. Tell me exactly how any of you are really supporting the troops (besides service members or their families). I will tell you how I am…
I’m not, I sit in a cubicle and drive a nice car to my comfortable apartment. I don’t support them for sh_t and I doubt many of you really do either. I don’t like this so I decided as a 22 year old male I better go sign up, so I am.
March 7th, 2007 at 9:28 amsigh…
“Paul Hermann
What exactly should us civilians do? Did not the same thing occur during Korea and Vietnam? When the “terrorists” attack on land in the US with an invasion I will be glad to suit up.
March 7th, 2007 at 9:25 am”
I’m sure all the people dead from 9-11 shared your sentiment. But they are dead Paul.
Suit up Paul? Suit up for what? To kill whom? Don’t you get it man, there is no army to fight, there is not conventional war any longer. The terrorists will not come in arms and land a ship on the beach after an artillery barrage, there is no fight with them.
You will be ready to suit up, great Paul, you will suit up the day after the terrorists blow up your daughter’s school and kidnap and torture your wife because she is showing her hair. They won’t come bearing arms, they will come bearing passports and Visa’s. They will come bearing Koran’s as peaceful religious leaders. Then they will spread their poison into disenfranchised blacks and poor in the US. They will call it the true religion of their ancestors. They aren’t going to line up in a field across from you, they will just suddenly explode and half your face will be missing, then you will suit up. Get your head out of the sand man, wake up and listen to the threats they make. This war is here and it’s better to fight it now on their soil, unless you want our schools and markets exploding every other day.
March 7th, 2007 at 9:41 amPaul Hermann- “What exactly should us civilians do? Did not the same thing occur during Korea and Vietnam? When the “terrorists” attack on land in the US with an invasion I will be glad to suit up.”
Uh… have you heard of the events of September 11, 2001? What about the attack on the World Trade Center in 1993? The USS Cole? There are plenty more if you look beyond what is presented in twenty-two minutes of the evening news spoon-fed to you by the MSM.
Why are people so quick to believe the sanitized MSM and not when the terrorists state they want to attack the US and will kill every American they can?
March 7th, 2007 at 10:18 amPaul Hermann- “What exactly should us civilians do? Did not the same thing occur during Korea and Vietnam? When the “terrorists” attack on land in the US with an invasion I will be glad to suit up.”
What civilians should be doing is understanding what the real stakes of this war are. Although we went to war with the Jihadists in 2002. They have been at war with us since 1979 when the radicals took our people hostage in Iran. The media has done a poor job of informing the American public about the aims of radical Islam. They want world domination with a strict religious state. They beleive that is their birth right. Everyday these goals are reiterated in the mosques, schools and even by heads of governments. The MSM chooses not to show the American public this. Instead they want the US to be seen as the aggressor.
In 1982 I watched a documentary on PBS that explained the various factions of radical Islam. It let the leaders of those factions tell in their own word what they hoped to achieve. 25 years ago they talked about creating a band of Islam around the world. Look how close to that goal they are now. Check out your globe the Middle east, North Africa, the Phillipines, Indonesia, South East Asia. All they need now is a foot hold in South or Central America and they have completed this goal.
The Marines in Iraq understand this is about something much bigger than oil. Jihadists kill their own people without reservation to try and further their grip on the Muslim world. Think about how much less value they place on an American life.
The Marines are fighting so we can go to the mall buy what ever we want and not have worry about being beheaded for wearing it.
Let’s just remember they are there and give them our support for both their sacrafice and their mission.
March 7th, 2007 at 12:49 pmFair questions. I don’t believe there would be a threat if US govt policy since 1945 had not been of massive exploitation of these countries. Granted their leaders are not the most ethical. However,Its easy to see everything from the US point of view. Your guy Bush thinks that way. It is not wrong to ask Why do these people have a problem with our Government? You guys think that is “pussy liberal talk”. You have to understand how these people think that way and why. Since when is the war on terror become a war on the Iraqi people? I have seen abot seven Docs other than Young Americans that show that we stumbled in winning these people over. Hey hindsight is 20/20. But come on L Paul Bremmer? A jerk with a suit and truck driver boots.
March 7th, 2007 at 1:59 pmThe difference is I am a man of the human race first country second.
Last time I checked those Arabs shit and eat like all of US
Sure there are radicals. But how many non-radicals get killed to kill the radicals. Which then creates more radicals.
Finally you know how you end terrorism. ECONOMIC OPPURTUNITY. Jobs, Food and water baby the old fashion way
Paul, and that is where we differ. “We” being you and your ilk versus real Americans. Don’t give me any crap about how you’re just as patriotic as the rest of us, you explicitly stated that you see yourself as a human first and American second.
Honestly, the only way to end Jihadism, which is what we’re fighting, not the abstract noun of “terrorism” (I don’t hear about American forces raiding narco-separatist camps in northern Thailand), is to destroy Islam. Wipe the religion out. At least the brand that is Koranical enough to consider Jihad to be a valid religious rite.
Unfortunately, that’s the only form of Islam that is viable for the intellectually honest of the world. Islam= violent expansionsim. By divine decree, according to them. It’s time we stop waging limited war, and start nuking muslim holy cities.
Then again, maybe what we’re doing in Iraq will actually work, and materialistic capitalism we’ll actually win the Long War format we are currently fighting in.
I fear however, that if we are to give the means and access to jobs, food, and water, that will just free up more resources for Jihad.
March 7th, 2007 at 3:59 pmPaul,
First of all I don’t buy the notion that America has caused all these ills. If you want to talk about expoitation of the 3rd world go talk to the French and their truely mercenary army.
You should read Richard Minitor’s book. In it he references a data base that is kept about known or captured terrorists. The average Jihadi comes from a middle class or better family. Their coversion did not come about from some war tragedy. In fact they are recruited from the Mosques and colleges where they feel disinfrancised. The hate western values so they want to destroy all who embrace those values.
Terrorist destroy economic opportunity, they murder people who work to stop the infastructure from being improved.
The number of innocents killed in the cross fire by the US pales in comparison to the ones intentionally targeted by terrorists.
The thing I always have go back to is If they laid down their weapons, there would be peace. If we lay down our weapons, the will continue to kill us. The fight would still go on between them. Innocent Muslims would still be killed.
March 7th, 2007 at 4:52 pmPaul Herman - “Last time I checked those Arabs shit and eat like all of US Sure there are radicals. But how many non-radicals get killed to kill the radicals. Which then creates more radicals. Finally you know how you end terrorism. ECONOMIC OPPURTUNITY. Jobs, Food and water baby the old fashion way”
Paul, the huge difference here is you are trying to save the enemy. They will kill you, no questions asked, simply because of who you are - an American. It’s been done and they have said they will do it again and again. I do wonder though if you really are an American because you seem right in line with helping the enemy and trying ensure the defeat of the great United States of America.
About the food and water thing, wasn’t that already tried and now we have this big scandal about who profited when and where from all of that? We have tried to talk and negotiate and it never works. Please tell me one thing that has worked in this arena with negotiations. When you try to negotiate with evil, evil will always win. It’s time to play hard ball.
I have a little assignment for you, Paul. Try pulling your head out of your ass once a day and look around and read and see what is really going on, not just what the MSM spoon-feeds you. When it gets uncomfortable learning the truth you can put your head back in so you feel safe. Do you think that is harsh of me to say? I assure you it’s much softer than what they will do to you simply because you are an American.
When you criticize someone in our armed forces for “failing”, as the MSM feeds you, try offering an alternative that is 100% guaranteed to work with zero chances of failure.
My entire family is, or rather was, military. They are all retired now. At one point I had a family member in each branch of service simultaneously. I never considered joining the military. After seeing all of this shit going on now I wish I was younger and could sign up. To those on here who have mentioned signing up I thank you. You are fighting for a great, great country that didn’t get here by pandering and trying to make everyone agree. Ironically, you are also fighting for these liberal assholes that don’t even understand why they can say and think what they want.
March 7th, 2007 at 7:29 pmpaul,
need we wait for “an invasion” before we decide to acknowledge we have unrelenting enemies with designs on not only changing our government but forcing our citizens to submit to an undemocratic system?
the problem with liberals is simply underestimation. The muslims have already invaded. but their invasion is not the kind you are thinking of. They have gained acceptance as a religion despite the fact that their religion is a way of life, an ideology, that demands full cooperation of those who have the misfortune of being under their yoke.
Liberals , moderates and conservative clergy among the muslims are all well aware of their “religions” designs for the world. Some have divulged this in public forums such as the leadership of CAIR, a self styled ACLU organization that defends the rights of muslims in america.they even said they envision our constitution being replaced by sharia one day. Muslim law like stalinist communism, leaves nothing to the will of the people. God, like the communist party, is one and it reigns supreme and it is up to the shariah court(communist party) to determine what God’s will is for the people.
You need to read up on the history of Islam with relation to unbelievers. They will pretend to be your friend, pretend to be victims, do whatever it takes, to gain sympathy and then power. There are plenty of unknowing muslims, but the clerics are all well aware of these designs.
There designs are the same as they were in 628 AD, only their tactics have changed. They purposely tell adherents to study the quran only in arabic, a very difficult language to learn much less master. As they memorize suras they dont even understand they gloss over very nasty passages regularly investing much time into their faith. these muslims are harmless generally, until they are slowly exposed to their obligations as muslims. One of these obligations is Jihad which too many muslims buy into.
Now they will try to take over by misleading people into loyalty to Islam, even those who dont”convert”. You are one of their best allies and an unknowing accomplice.
I suggest you start reading about the people who claim to be the worlds enemy and its superior. those people are not the USA, but those who represent Islam.
March 7th, 2007 at 10:14 pmI find it interesting how everyone jumps at Paul’s comment while Gaige can get away with suggesting the bombing of Muslim holy cities.
Gaige, I don’t know if you have properly reflected what it means to see yourself as a countryman first and a human second. State over human nature is as textbook fascist as a war against a religion. While religion is the tool that turn young men into suicide bombers, the reasons for the mayhem in Iraq lie well beyond religion. In Syria, in Iran, Sunnis and Shias don’t kill each other on a daily basis.
March 7th, 2007 at 11:23 pmVerily I walk through the Valley of Death…
I fear not Evil.
We are the Righteous, the Heart Breakers, the Life Takers.
Not Self but Country!
March 8th, 2007 at 12:25 amUnited States Navy.
“It is not wrong to ask Why do these people have a problem with our Government?”
Are you kidding? We’ve been trying that for over a quarter century. Their peoblem isn’t with our government, it’s with *us*. Believe it or not, Islamic terrorists and extremists don’t want to talk; they want to destroy western civilization and replace it with Islam. They SAY IT to our faces. The charter of the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) states one of it’s goals as impressing sahria (Islamic law) on the American continent.
You need no more example than the Iranian Islamic revolution and the subsequent taking of diplomats as hostages for 444 days while we tried to talk out a solution. They slapped the US, and the world in the face by completely ignoring international law protecting diplomats from this sort of thing.
Gaige,
March 8th, 2007 at 6:28 amThe idea of using nuclear weapons is proposterous. And on attacking civilian structures; we don’t do that. Sometimes they are hit accidentally, but never targeted.
“While religion is the tool that turn young men into suicide bombers, the reasons for the mayhem in Iraq lie well beyond religion. In Syria, in Iran, Sunnis and Shias don’t kill each other on a daily basis.”
Unfounded.
Up until the war kicked off, Bahrain had the most terrorist incidents per capital in the world. It was all Sunni/Shiite related. Those nutbags love to kill, the only things that keep them from proactively targeting each other is a totalitarian dictatorship or the presence of a more appealing American target. Your examples of Syria and Iran are two perfect examples of Arab totalitarian regimes. Saudi Arabia is very hard on activists and Shia’s, they aren’t immune from terrorist attacks. Jordan? They’ve had problems. Who else do you want to site as bastions of Islamic Paradises? Lebanon? Egypt, UAE, Dubai, Yemen, Sudan, Somalia, Indonesia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Chechnya… Kuwait is the only exception to the rule, but its porbably one of the most western members of the Arab League. Again Morlock, study up on some history.
To quote Hawkins “…rags knockin each other off like its the national pasttime.”
March 8th, 2007 at 10:31 amhow the hell do you think we’re paying for the marine corps to go to war? by keeping americans at the mall, of course. cut out “the mall,” peeps, and we got no *cha-ching* for war….
March 8th, 2007 at 12:27 pm“While religion is the tool that turn young men into suicide bombers, the reasons for the mayhem in Iraq lie well beyond religion. In Syria, in Iran, Sunnis and Shias don’t kill each other on a daily basis.”
I dunno about Syria for certain; but Iran has multiple secret prisons, and has been hanging rape victims as adulterors since 1979.
I wouldn’t say unfounded; I’d say uninformed.
Jarhead covered the rest.
March 8th, 2007 at 12:38 pmHey Im going to respond tommorrow I have been in meetings all day. Major construction projects for the USA not Iraq.
March 8th, 2007 at 12:51 pm. Talk to you tommorrow
The idea that it is religion in general that compels men to blow themselves up in markets is patently ridiculous, and intellectually dishonest. Name ONE instance of a Buhddist or a Christian suicide bomber.
As for my suggestion of bombing muslim holy cities, I was explicit that it should be nuclear, and not conventional. I want the maximum amount of death possible, in the shortest amount of time possible, with the greatest amount of intensity possible. Why? Not because I hate muslims (I have two who are close acquaintances), but because I hate Islam. It is a philosophy that can not be bargained with or reasoned with, it can’t be coexisted with. You either bow to it, subjugate it, or destroy it.
March 8th, 2007 at 2:23 pm“Paul Hermann
Fair questions. I don’t believe there would be a threat if US govt policy since 1945 had not been of massive exploitation of these countries. Granted their leaders are not the most ethical. However,Its easy to see everything from the US point of view. Your guy Bush thinks that way. It is not wrong to ask Why do these people have a problem with our Government? You guys think that is “pussy liberal talk”. You have to understand how these people think that way and why. Since when is the war on terror become a war on the Iraqi people? I have seen abot seven Docs other than Young Americans that show that we stumbled in winning these people over. Hey hindsight is 20/20. But come on L Paul Bremmer? A jerk with a suit and truck driver boots.
The difference is I am a man of the human race first country second.
Last time I checked those Arabs shit and eat like all of US
Sure there are radicals. But how many non-radicals get killed to kill the radicals. Which then creates more radicals.
Finally you know how you end terrorism. ECONOMIC OPPURTUNITY. Jobs, Food and water baby the old fashion way
March 7th, 2007 at 1:59 pm ”
Ever heard of Osama Bin Laden? He was the son of a wealthy saudi business man, and if he ever did have problems with money it was because he was the 17th son of 55 children born to his father. It isn’t economics that creates these radicals, it is the religion, economics just creates the opportunity for the radicals to take power.
Take the Nazi’s, anti semitism was prevalent in Germany througout the second half of the 19th century (and of course well before) it just took a war and bad depression for the Nazi’s to take hold, but plenty of Germans felt the way they did long before the economic downturn.
I think it is a cop out to say that economics creates this. When the great depression hit the US we didn’t turn into a Hitleresque totalitarian regime. We didn’t start bombing eachother and killing eachother. Why? Because back then we were a Christian nation built on freedom and equality, and built on principles of hard work and self sufficiency. Germany was a strong nation but their racism and eliteism won over, these are deep seeded traits in the culture, not things that spring from a bad economy, they just come out with the bad economy.
Muslims show their contempt for infidels in their daily lives. Non-Muslims are actively discriminated against in almost all countries with islamic law. This is something that is bred into Islam. There are not God given rights of freedom in that religion. The God given rights are not to pray for your attackers and turn the other cheek, they are to kill non-believers. Now you couple that with economic downturns and it gets ugly.
The economics is the match that lights the tinder, but that tinder was waiting around for centuries and is deeply engrained in the culture. To blame it all on economics is just a cop out, an oversimplification, and an excuse for absolutely horrific things.
No matter how poor you and I got, we would never want to blow the arms and legs off of women and children. That is extreme evil no matter how you look at it, and there is no excuse for that. Collateral damage is one thing, civilians will get caught in the crossfire of a guerilla war, but they target women and children, civilians. We target their fighters.
March 8th, 2007 at 3:58 pmI am not at the mall, most are TRUE. Screw those spoiled uneducated bastards I am forced to commute with every day. I am at war with these NAZI’s and thier apologists everyday. Just ask my doctor, stage 3 hypertension (note I am uninsured, and if there was a stage 4 I would be in it). Semper Fidelis brothers in arms, a lot of us stand with you, but the media won’t tell you that. Stay safe, kill them when your commanders let you. There is no other solution. GODSPEED!
March 8th, 2007 at 7:10 pmI was not saying that Muslims don’t kill each other. What I want to say is that it is hard to find a branch of religion (at least for the major religions) that is responsible for killings. In Syria and Iran, Sunni’s and Shias live peacefully together. A housemate of mine is a Syrian Sunni, who told me a bit about life in the Middle East. He said that before the Iraq invasion, this religious hatred between the two groups was not even an issue (some of his best friends are Shia), and it still isn’t in the countries next to Iraq. Only in Iraq it has deteriorated.
Now you could say that it is freedom that finally allows those people to kill each other and us. So the 75% of the 5 million Sunnis in Iraq that, according to a poll of the US Department of Defense, support the insurgency, may just do so because they are now “less oppressed”. But what about Turkey? Almost everyone a muslim, but with several different branches present in the country, the Sunnis being the majority. While Turkey is not a textbook democracy, it is a secular, true multi-party system. And though one example is enough to prove you wrong, there are other examples of democratic, Islam countries where different subgroups of Islam coexist peacefully and also don’t attack the US. 2003 I went for holidays on the Maldives: Strong Islamic culture, Sunni majority. Recently, the government started reforms to turn the country into a multi-party democracy. The country stays peaceful.
While I agree that religion in general can be a catalysator for hatred and stupidity, I think that it applies to all, or at least to all western religions (that are fundamentally different from religions like Budhism or Shintoism).
March 9th, 2007 at 12:41 amWhy are these religious factions so at each other throats in Iraq? Maybe becuase there are Al-Qaeda and Iranian instigators fighting a religious proxy war?
Sunnis are terribly repressed in Iran, as Shiites are in Saudi Arabia. Just because there isn’t outward violence doesn’t mean they are getting along.
Turkey has been struggling to be more western for the better part of the 20th century. Now, it looks like the rest of the Mediterranean world with an Islamic touch.
Which isn’t to say there isn’t any violence. Terrorists operate in Turkey, and an unpopular Kurdish seperatist movement operates in the southern border with Iraq/Kurdistan.
And finally, Islam teaches many of the same lessons as Christianity. The old testament is the same in the Bible and the Quar’an, it’s only in the new that they differ. radical Islam is a perverted form that uses religion as an excuse for intolerance and violence.
March 9th, 2007 at 6:28 amTo say both use the Old Testament is true, the difference in the 3 western religions is in the New Testament like Starkc Says.
Look at the three;
Judaism; No new testament, still holding onto old beliefs and traditions. In the old testament the Jews fight defensive wars, there is some ethnic cleansing but for the most part the wars are to rid the world of really really bad people (child sacrificers, those with gross sexual immorality, idol worship etc.) But never forced conversion, they just protect their own way of life and dispatch those threatening it.
This is reflected in the modern era. Isreal fights defensive wars (I agree it could be argued they invaded palestine when they first came but they are largely defensive) and just want to keep to themselves and live.
Islam; The prophet Muhammad comes along, he has the new teachings of God and writes them down in the Koran. This is the unperverted true word from God. After being rejected from Mecca Muhammad attacks merchant caravans as vengeance for having property taken in Mecca, kills many and holds others for ransom. Then after some victories agains Mecca, Muhammad expells the Jews from Medina who lived as his neighbors (and who were in Medina before Muhammad came) after they refused to convert to Islam, and then slaughtered them. Muhammad later marches on Mecca with 10,000 men and forces conversions and destroys icons of the Meccan’s faith.
This is reflected in the modern era, almost every muslim country in the world wants to destroy israel, they can’t stand other faiths living among them. Some countries are tolerant between shia and sunni but not to other religions. When Muslims gain the majority and enough power they discriminate against other religions and treat them as second class citiznes.
Christianity; Jesus comes to save the jews, he never raises a weapon, nor do any of his followers except once (put down your sword, he who lives by the sword dies by it). He brings people to new faith through healing and love. He never strikes anyone, although he does overturn tables of vendors in the temple (comon God has to get pissed sometimes). He uses love, hope and salvation to gain followers, never a forced conversion, never a conversion from fear.
Now Christianity has been perverted to evil ends at different times in history. The inquisition is ocnquistadors are not shining examples of his teachings. The crusades are debateable, depending on the crusade and the instance. These were evil acts at times when the religion was perverted. The bottom line however is that the Christianity that is practiced today is one based upon forgiveness, love, healing and God given rights of equality and freedom, these are not in the Muslim Religion, they are just based on different things and to group the 3 together in a Judeo/Christian/Islamic grouping is an immature cop out that shows a lack of understanding in the fundamental teachings of each, the core of the religions are different and that is the truth of the matter.
American soldiers bring Iraqi Children candy, school supplies and treat them well. Abuses by Americans are few and far between, not the rule. American’s put their lives on the line to secure a nation and a people halfway around the world so that both peoples can live in peace. Muslim militants blow themselves up and convert by the sword, we don’t have any intention of conversion, just peaceful co-existence. Islam will not stop until the entire world is under the Sharia, it is written in the Koran that this will one day occur, and muslims are well on their way to making it happen.
March 9th, 2007 at 1:02 pmI’d also like to add the Islam believes that Jesus Christ was a prophet; and the the real messiah (Mahdi) has yet to be born.
Also convienent that Mohammed was the FINAL prophet and that there would be none further.
On Israel:
When the British carved up the Jewish state, they offered the nomadic Palestinians the same offer, a Plaestinian homeland. They were even given the first pick of land, but declined. Then after WWII they got another chance when the UN created Israel, but again, they refused. So while I think it’s wrong that the West jumped in and just gave the Jews the land; I don’t feel sorry for the Plaestinians. The Israelis never invaded anyting except Egypt when they captured the Golan Heights in a counterattack against joint Egyptian, Syrian, Plaestinian aggression; but not only gave them right back but were nice enough to leave the Suez alone, although they could have kept it and the trade riches along with it easily.
March 9th, 2007 at 1:16 pmMost Americans don’t have a clue about hard times when
March 9th, 2007 at 1:35 pmour Country is at War…I go back a few years and can
tell you what hard times really are…Food rationing
such as meat,you needed tokens to buy it. Very little
gas also rationed.Tires for your car,you must be kidding.
Black out shades, no out side light,Air-raid wardens out
walking to make sure no light could be seen.Americans
to-day have it way to easy.We have a bunch of young men
and women trying to save our rusty butts and the thanks
they get are the public whining and a bunch of slime
ball politicans trying to give them the shaft.Man I call
that a sorry sack of crap…
the marines are at war,and america should wake the fuc up.and back up these killing machines.keep america proud,
March 9th, 2007 at 5:52 pmmen… and semper-fi from a marine 78-87
keep up the great work…marines like myself back home are behind you marines 100%
semper-fi
March 9th, 2007 at 5:53 pmMorlock
“In Syria and Iran, Sunni’s and Shias live peacefully together.”
Wafa Sultan would take issue with you also,her professor was gunned down in the classroom before her eyes in Peace loving Syria
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WLoasfOLpQ
When you get to Iran be sure and tell them you want all the freedoms you enjoy over here,shout at the top of your lungs how you’re for the human race,not country,if you choose to be Sunni,make sure they understand how you don’t think the Ayatollahs should be held in such high reverence.
Perhaps even more troubling than the violence in Iraq is the growing sectarian acrimony which may be taking hold in the Muslim world. Just last month Sunni militants killed 11 of Shia Iran’s Revolutionary Guards in a bomb attack. Experts also point to the fact that Sunni religious leaders in Saudi Arabia regularly upbraid Shia Muslims as heretics. A recent editorial in an Egyptian newspaper also openly accused Iran of “working actively towards spreading Shia doctrine even in countries which do not have a Shia majority … paving the way for reviving the dreams of the Safavids.” The Safavids of Iran established Shia Islam as the official state religion and fought of series of wars against their Sunni Ottoman neighbors.
Iran is not homogeneous. Barely a maximum of the populace are “Persians”. They have always owned the prime land for farming and city real estate. The minorities have been mistreated for centuries and include not only the Kurds, but the Azeri and Afshar in Iran’s northwest and the Lur, Qashqai and Bakhtiari spread along with the Kurds in the Zagros Mountains along the Iran-Iraq border.
The Azeri are the “servant class” and clean the homes, businesses, hotels, etc in the cities. The Lur historically moved into Baghdad to serve as porters. Kurds have always been fractious Sunni against the Shia Iranians.
The Shah of Iran supported the Kurds in their rebellions against Saddam, but the Algiers agreement with Saddam settled border and other disputes and the Shah stopped. Saddam then beat the Kurds but gave amnesty. About 30,000 Kurds left and joined the other 1-200,000 refugees in Iran. That crossing from Irbil in Iraq to the Iranian area south of Lake Urmia is llike an interstate! Turn about is fair play. Iraqi Kurds can create havoc in Iran’s northwest and the Pesh Merga can go across in force if they needed to.
Since ignorant news media (and Congressmen) have no knowledge of history and culture, they think the President should suck up to the Iranians. No, the Iranians should be on their knees asking us to curtail the Kurdish uprisings (which can kindle uprisings of other minorities). The key to Iranian government stability is the bazaari, those middle class Iranians who buy and sell goods in the bazaars. Alienating them was the Shah’s downfall. With no goods to sell, guess what?
Sounds like they love group huggs over there.
“A housemate of mine is a Syrian Sunni, who told me a bit about life in the Middle East. He said that before the Iraq invasion, this religious hatred between the two groups was not even an issue (some of his best friends are Shia), and it still isn’t in the countries next to Iraq. Only in Iraq it has deteriorated.”
I say BS,so does history,left without a host to feed upon Islam would destory itself.
March 10th, 2007 at 4:18 amI did not say that there is no violence coming from either Sunnis or Shiites. I am just saying that a generalization as in “nuke the religion that causes violence” is beyond stupid. I do not deny that violence happens between these groups (though not at a level than the European wars between Catholic and Protestant countries), I just say that any generalisation is wrong. No one in his right mind would have suggest nuking Catholic, Protestant or even Christian “holy sites” when members of both religions killed each other in Ireland. Same with these idiots who thrown grenades at abortion doctors or the Dominionists who’d love to have the death penalty for homosexuals and “evil sorcerers”.
Religion certainly contributes to violence since it can be used so easily, but do not mistake the work of extremists or of politically motivated figures using religion with the religions themselves.
March 10th, 2007 at 5:22 amMorlock
“The Truth Shall Set You Free”
“I am just saying that a generalization as in “nuke the religion that causes violence” is beyond stupid.”
Beyond stupid is not the first word that comes to mind after reading the Koran,insane is a better word,I’m no expert on Islam text(yet) but I know enough by their actions thats what they follow to the word.
You say “nuke the religion that causes violence” is beyond stupid.”
I’d call it suvival,on Feb 6th 2006 Shiite clerics issued a fatwah,which states,”The Shar’a does not fobid the use of nuclear weapons”.
Reading what the Koran says would give anyone the chills,you may think they’re bluffing and just rattling their swords,mark my words,they’re waiting for the time and their holy book gives them all the rights they need.
The killing of non-combantants and Muslim civilians is absolutely legal in view of Islam.The ligitimacy is termed, “Al-Tatras”
When Iran goes on line its time to take them out,period,full stop.
It maybe too late already.
M.A.D.D. is not a deterent to Islam.
“Religion certainly contributes to violence since it can be used so easily, but do not mistake the work of extremists or of politically motivated figures using religion with the religions themselves.”
Sun Tzu said,
“Hence the saying: If you know the enemy
and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a
hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy,
for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat.
If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will
succumb in every battle.”
You don’t seem to know the enemy,you’re not alone,men and women leaders of our nation are clueless also,don’t take this as an insult,you and they have no idea that we’re at war with people still living by Muhammad’s laws,laws you should study if you want to know your enemy,or stick your head in the sand like so many others.
The Western mind in general, even after the atrocities committed by Muslim extremists, is still avoiding to link Islam, as a religion, to terrorism. This goes beyond political correctness to the engrained conviction in modern societies that freedom of religion is sacred and no one should be judged based on his religious beliefs. While we all agree with this principle we try to separate beliefs concerning faith and those concerning political and social issues. Islam, by the acknowledgment of its followers is a dogma of “Religion and world”. Thus, the separation between a true Muslim’s worship of God and his political or social behaviors is forbidden in Islam.
Morlock,I suggest that you read the below links and cross check just in case you might think I’m slinging propaganda at ya,I wish to God I was!!
http://www.annaqed.com/english/under/islam_and_violence.pdf
http://www.annaqed.com/english/english_about.html
Then you maybe become “Annaqed” (An Arabic word for “the critic”)as I am.
March 10th, 2007 at 2:51 pmBy the way,it should Mutual assured destruction (MAD)
March 10th, 2007 at 2:57 pmAlthough they don’t care about M.A.D.D. either.
Hey! This is the very subject of a research paper that I am working on!
March 11th, 2007 at 5:08 pmHello! my name is JaNell and I am a History Major at Oklahoma State University. For my Senior Seminar I am working on a research paper concerning war and troop support from World War II, Vietnam, and now. I really want to know what people think concerning this matter. Are we really at the mall? How much has support changed since World War II? Let me know at , I would love to hear from you. My nephew was Sgt. James R. Graham and was killed on Aug. 1, 2005, making this topic very personal.
To answer an earlier question, I leave for basic on 7 May.
I had my first workout with my recruiters and fellow recruits yesterday. My asshole was sucking buttermilk! 5.3 miles hiking up and down muddy hills. I puked–twice.
What’s great about that situation is the recruiters start hassling you about it, saying “PUKE! PUKE! PUKE!” and fake gagging. But when you’re done, everyone is smiling, and you are too. And then you keep walking. My recruiter told me I had heart, and he wasn’t just saying that. And boy did that make me feel good.
MRE 19 (beef roast with vegetables) is delicious and nutritious, by the way. Don’t understand what all the bitching is about.
March 11th, 2007 at 11:44 pmYou will be bitching too after you’ve endured a week of meals ready to excrete.
Did they PT you, and if so how’d ya do?
March 12th, 2007 at 6:15 amGood to hear your joining up, I have my OCS board in a month or 2, as soon as the recruiter gets my waiver processed. I already did ASVAB and MEPS and I am good to go there. Can’t wait to get in, just have to tie up some loose ends and pay off some debt, early to mid summer I ship out.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:11 amThanks for the reply. I am going to tell you the difference between someone such as myself who has had family (father his two brothers)military experience but not personnel experience. I choose University over military. This has allowed me to step back frtom the FOX news Re-enlistment brainwashing that you guys follow. I already knew that there was a problem back in the 1908’s when I was in High School. 1983 Beiruit Marine barracks. The problem has been a systematic descision on the US government and media to NEVER show the Arab point of view Vis a Vi Palestine and Israel. How many of you guys EVER heard anything but the US Israeli point from the 1960’s all the way to now. See my point is to get ahead of the curve on these issues. Nope it was ALL ignored. Now you reap what you sow. This is a problem inherent in both the Dems and Repubs. Too many lobbies. Now You guys have to pay the Piper.
March 12th, 2007 at 12:13 pmI think the problems get worse when the Pentagon is put in charge of a mission Iraq that clearly required more planning. You guys IGNORE all the faults of your thinking. Its always “Oh the Liberals” Nonsense. Think outside the box. The problem was/is that you think you can just strongarm these people.
I don’t buy that a group of Middle East terrorists can penetrate the US as easliy as All you guys think. I don’t even believe that they can afford to get on an airplane despite 9/11. Sorry but Im not scared. Ill take my chances based on my own analysis Not FOX Not Bill Orielly of course not GWBush and that pig Cheney
To DMac You are In my opinion totally wrong about the impact of no jobs. You can see it right here in the good old USA. How many of you guys would have joined up if you had better economic oppurtunity. Good paying manufacturing jobs. $35 an hour. Your countries sold you out to Unpatriotic corporations. Oh I see thats capitalism at work. Can’t knock the system then. Hey its America there just trying to make money. Hey ask for corporations sacrifice before my sacrifice. Ill bet you can get more out of Halliburton than you can out of me.
March 12th, 2007 at 12:19 pmHey sstarkc you are kidding right. Hey man I need you t move tommorrow morning or I will have a bulldozer wake you up. The Palestinians had every right to reject the UN Mandate. At least Clinton accepted (grudgingly)Arafat and the PLO. You Have to.
March 12th, 2007 at 12:24 pmYou guys forget the first 9 months of 2001. I was paying attention to Bush. He didn’t talk to any Arabs let alone Arafat. He was completely uninterested in working with them because of the AIPAC connection in the White House. You guys call a Liberal analysis conspiracy talk. I guess you believe our government is very transparent.
You’re almost funny; but my parents raised me right and taught me not to laugh at idiots.
They didn’t reject the mandate, they refused an oppurtunity. They had the first pick of land, but they were ignorant nomads who had no understanding of what was going on. The ones that did understand thought that Egypt and Syria would be able to evit the Jews, and they thought wrong.
They gambled on hate, aggression, and violence, and should have lost. Instead, out of the kindness of their own hearts, the Israelis GAVE them a homeland, some of the best land in the region. That’s why the Israelis rioted and resisted eviction, they had the most fertile farmland, beautiful orchards and fields of crops, and many lived in extravagent villas. Then, the government decided to be “fair” and give in.
March 12th, 2007 at 12:49 pmrumsfeld47,
March 13th, 2007 at 6:50 amDude thanks for your service, good luck and godbless!!! but your comment about MRE’s is a little off. When you eat them for three weeks in the field you will understand. Not to mention, half the time you don’t have enough time to use the chemical heaters supplied to heat them up! PEACE!
fraser
My thoughts and prayers are with all of you in Iraq and Afghanistan.THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE AND SACRIFICE!!!!!!!!!
March 14th, 2007 at 8:24 amOf my friends that did come home from Iraq, three of them came home with purple hearts. What kind of welcome does infantry get when they come home? What are they doing now? Working the only jobs they can find, getting paid near minimum wage.
They’re trying to pay rent and cover their medical expenses with an amount of money inadequate to do either. It’s not just liberals that don’t appreciate our brave men and women in service; the government that ordered them over there has hung them out to dry.
“Thanks for your service, sorry to hear about your permanent limp and total loss of hearing on that left side. Now fill ‘er up. And make it premium, my stock portfolio is doing well this month.”
ALL of our politicians, Republican and Democrat, are rich men. Rich men only care about their money and getting more of it. Rich men don’t care about the lives lost as long as they’re making money. Why do decent, honest, hard-working, god-fearing people let rich fat pigs like our policticians tell them what to think and who to fight?
March 18th, 2007 at 8:34 ammorland and paul herman Wake up! we say it over and over again but you continue on this relativity crap and overlook the essential tenet to islamic hatred is the quran and the sunnah, not the creation of israel, the crusades, or american policy here and there, but the quran.
as long as arabs and persians and the like accept the quran as the un questioned word of God, and as clerics continue to preach the hatred of muhammed for jews and unbelivers, we are never going to make them like us. Stop pretending that “understanding them” or feeling their pain is going to make them like us, forgive us or leave us alone. They can not and will not be allowed to like us or live along side us as equals because God says they are superior to us swine, and that we should be killed or made to feel subdued.
intertwined with the whining of hamas, alqaeda and this or that terrorist about american, israeli or western atrocities or policies is a consistent call to search the quran and sunnah for the prophets call to smite the enemies at their necks, to enslave their wives and children and steal their wealth.
Muhammed said “I will be made victorious with terror” in the quran, nashk is a concept that is invoked in direct quote of muhammed who said that at times Allah allowed him to change exhortations that “improved ” upon previous exhortations. following this logic we find that peaceful meccan(earlier) exhortations that embody many universal values(feed the poor,there is no compulsion in religion,to kill another is to kill all of mankind)are to be abrogated(nashk) by later medinan suras such as the last sura chapter 9 which contains among many others the verse of the sword. Muslim scholars unanimously conclude that Chapter 9 was the last sura recited by muhammed. the sword verse talks of smiting off unbelievers heads (nicholus berg, kim sung il, etc)
instead of making general rationalist statements about religion why dont you actually show us that you know something about Islam in order to compare it to christianity or judaism.
Also one of you suggested that the monotheistic religions are western as opposed to buddhism or shintoism yet most people know that the middle east is part of asia (east) not the west. western religions are generally pagan and polytheistic in nature. Jesus was no european neither were the prophets nor muhammed.
The road to democracy in the arab world will be long and tenuous, which means the only way to overcome it is to be there for the long haul as we have done in japan and korea. By the way the japanese imperial military was shintoist in nature which goes to show that it need not be contrasted with what you refer to as western religions. If we abandon iraq anytime soon it will take much longer to bring freedom to the people. see vietnam and cambodia for examples.
March 27th, 2007 at 11:10 pmISLAM IS AT WAR WITH CHRISTENDOM & THE WORLD
We in the west want to fight Islamic extremists like it is any other war that confronts us. There is no nation called Islam that is using its military to attack. What we fail to understand in the west is that fundamentalist Muslims, the ones we call extremists or radicals, are the ones who follow the Quran by the numbers and are practicing true Islam. We foolishly think that Muslims envy our democratic governed way of life. A way of life that is structured around man-made laws and social order. In the extremist/true world of Islam there is no nation unless it is completely controlled by Islamic law. People’s rights, human rights and even the rights of a nation cannot be allowed to trump the control of Islam. This is what the current Islamic government of Iran is trying to enforce on its people and this is what scares the hell out of the rest of the Muslim countries. Yes, Egypt and Saudi Arabia want to be Muslim countries but they want the good things that come from the west; but in extremist/true Islam all the outside non-Muslim ideas have to go. Not only do they have to be removed for the true believers, these ultra faithful are directed to fan out to the rest of the world and bring Islam to the non-believers. And in true Islamic fashion the word of Allah is brought to and forced on the rest of world by the sword. You will submit to Islam or be destroyed. I just finished the book “Islam and Terrorism” (www.frontlineissues.com). It was written by Mark A. Gabriel, PHD. The only thing is Dr. Gabriel is not his given birth name. This is the name he took when he left the Islamic faith and became a Christian. Dr. Gabriel was a college professor of Islamic studies at the Al-Azhar University in Cairo, Egypt. Islam was his entire life. He was also an Imam of a mosque in the city of Giza, Egypt. An Imam is similar to a minister or pastor in the Christian religion. He came to reject the violence of Islam and question his own faith as a Muslim. He was denounced by his University, arrested and tortured by secret police and his own father pulled a gun on him and tired to kill Dr. Gabriel. He fled to South Africa and the eventually came to the US. Leaving Islam is grounds for any Muslim to kill you. There have been numerous threats and actually attempts on Dr. Gabriel’s life. After the 911 attacks on the US the media went to great lengths to remind us that Islam is a religion of peace. They trotted out people like Mohammad Ali the peace loving x-boxer to reinforce this myth. The media would refer to earlier passages in the Quran that suggested Muslims should get along with non-followers of Islam. The problem is those references are from the early days of the prophet Muhammad when he was in Mecca and had no military power. After he goes to Medina and builds an army, the peace toward other religions is lost to the sword of Islam. The true Islamic goal is to spread the word of Allah as interpreted and filtered by Muhammad– those who refuse to believe and accept this, are to be crushed. Can you imagine a Baptist pulling a sword on a Methodist and forcing that Methodist to convert to the one true religion or die? No, we might make jokes about it but we would never take that scenario serious. A warning to the non-Muslim world, you had better take the violence of Islam seriously. As written in the Quran, the only way to guarantee a place in heaven in the Islamic religion is to die in jihad (holy war.) We joke about the suicide bomber who gets to go to heaven and have 72 virgins waiting for him. We in the west miss the point. It is not the virgins that are Allah’s reward it is the assurance of entry into heaven. What would you do as a Christian if after all your good works on earth and belief in God you still may not go to heaven? However if you fill your mini-van full of explosives and drive it into a Wal-Mart on Sunday, your God gives you a get-out-of earthly-jail pass and a direct ride to heaven. It is not just Christians and Jews they want to dominate, it is the world. Be afraid.
14 March 2007
March 28th, 2007 at 3:59 pmMajor Van Harl USAF Ret.
Hey Paul Hermann!
“I was in High School. 1983 Beiruit Marine barracks”
Well Paul, my brother died in those barracks while I was on the way back from my tour of duty in South Korea.
“I choose University over military. This has allowed me to step back frtom the FOX news Re-enlistment brainwashing that you guys follow”
allowed?!?!?!
allowed!!!!!!
Ok John Kerry wanna-be,you’re saying Vets have no free thought??
You POS!!!!!!
Like Pat said to Morlock…….
“You are merely a self-appointed Nurse Ratched ( “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest” ) working to protect the average man from intellecutal deficiences you love to imagine, in order to prop up your egomania and desire for control. It is this very role of The Anointed, with the motto: “We are the Anointed and We Know Better”
Your incessant, Big Brother doublespeak, in essence, “Weakness is Strength” and “Defeat is Victory” has spoken against you from Day One. ( “Let Me Suck The Enemy’s thingy Whenever I Can” seems to be another favorite of yours. And apparently suitable since you clearly are repelled by any masculine instinct - hence your constant feminine approach to all of society’s challenges. To you Government is some sort of Big Mother, protecting everyone from the scary natural world of men functioning freely, and indeed encouraging the weak to remain weak and under Big Mother’s protections. ) Your positions are always in sync with a man quite afraid to function like a man ( yes, Morlock, as socio-politcally inconvenient as it is to weak men such as yourself, there are differences between men and women, and it is your natural duty to act in accordance with the design of the former, not the latter ) and certainly afraid to fight, in a literal manner. Argue from the shadows under a false “non-socialist, non-America hating” persona, maybe; fight, no.
Morlock, you are a Leftist seeking the final revelation of your dreams of Leftist power. Your positions on Iraq and elsewhere are ass-backed in in support of your partisan ideology, and are devoid of all true rational analyis. You are a party hack looking to validate everything you’ve stood for all your life, too afraid to suck it up, chink at your own ego, and lose your social cache, by opening your mind to free thought, and the possible admission that you and your kind have been wrong all these years. And worse, that you are no more than the brainwashed remnants of a dying international socialist revolution. A pawn-victim in a game played by much more powerful, influential, and relevant men.”
That fits you puke!
go fuck yourself Hermann !!!!!!!!!!!
April 6th, 2007 at 5:21 amMonkey…….. PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESE
Really, you aren’t serious? Right?
————————————-
Sgt Rock - Former Sergeant of Marines
OOH RAH DOLLARD !!!
April 17th, 2007 at 7:36 pmI wonder how many of you “true believers” are in your “amen corner” with Cheney-Rove, Inc., thinking “whiner” out loud at those troops and their family members testifying to Congress on the decrepitude
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:50 pmof Walter Reed and the deliberately constructed “Mickey Mouse” obstacles they face on a continuous basis.
[…] America is at the Mall Filed under: politics — codesmithy @ 10:03 am One of the frustrating aspects about the Iraq war, no matter what your political stripe is the feeling that the Marines are at war and America is at the mall. […]
August 2nd, 2007 at 3:03 amMonkey,
September 29th, 2007 at 1:47 pmThe Marine Corps is spelled with upper case letters. Learn your grammar before you start teaching people who die for you to be an ignorant, self-righteous, indoctrinated slob.
I completely agree with that statement… Everyone is living their lives like nothing is happening.
Monkey: The Marine Corps is a branch of our military. “Corps” can be singular or plural. Do you notice how it pronounced “Marine *core*” by people?
November 19th, 2007 at 4:26 amSaudi Arabia and Libya were the source of about 60 percent of the foreign fighters
November 23rd, 2007 at 2:47 amwho came to Iraq in the past year to facilitate attacks.
Sad but so true!
January 10th, 2008 at 12:48 pmGuys:
We’re in 2007 in a war that started for some in 2002, others at the tail of 2001. If you think that America is ignoring you, you’re mistaken. I see you in the restaurants back home, I see you on the highway, and like it or not, I see you at the mall. I’m in Va. which has no simple shortage of military bases and my hometown is stashed right in between about 4 or 5 of them.
I’ve met a few of you. I went to school with some of you. You’re some of my friend’s fathers and mothers. I didn’t choose the path you took, true. But to say that you’re not in our hearts and minds while you stick it out in Iraq & Afghanistan is to ignore the heart of every political debate that has taken place since someone flew “Mission Accomplished” across an aircraft carrier waaaay back in 2003.
I don’t know if I “agree” with the war in Iraq or not, or the GWOT as some call it. And I also know that some of you don’t agree with it either. My very roomate is a Marine, and HE doesn’t agree (he fixed your choppers…kinda). I have some friends who’ve done contract work in the Pentagon who thanked their lucky stars that their duty was up before the war began. Just because we’re in a shitty position doesn’t mean that we’re not in a shitty position together. People over there are losing lives, people over here are losing jobs. No, it’s not the same, but the source of our problems is.
We’ve heard too many stories on all the major networks, on NPR, and all the periodicals about the job you’re doing over there. We’ve heard about the IEDs. We’ve heard about the gross under-reporting of casuaties. We’ve heard about army chaplains who’ve developed PTSD and lost their will to live, not because of any direct action they saw, but because of what they’d heard and how they’ve buried too many of their friends. And we’ve heard about the assholes who protest at your funerals, and we’ve watched your commander-in-chief turn his back on your wounded and your dead and work to keep your faces out of the national media.
You want our gratitude? You have our gratitude. You want me to sign up for some of that which you see every day? I’m sorry, but I’m not signing up for that.
We that stay behind have a different task. We serve in a different way. When you come back with your back broken and your spirit wracked, we owe it to you to return the favor. WE’LL be the ones to keep YOU safe. It’s our job to keep your favorite restaurants open and police your streets and keep your families safe while you’re away. It’s our job to keep your hospital running. It’s our job to put New Orleans back together while you’re away. While you’re out overseas keeping America intact from afar, we owe it to you to keep America intact here at home. It’s our job to protect the economy, so that you’ll have a job if you choose to retire. It’s our job to keep the car factories staffed, so that you have a ride to work. It’s our job, after going through hell, to remind you that there still is a safe place to return to with people who love you.
Yes. There are entire swaths of this country that are nothing but pure bullshit from sea to shining sea. And yes, you’re in a little piece of hell. Maybe when you get back, we can combine the two to make this country worth living in again and keep us from making mistakes this bad in the future. We can do it together, but only if you try.
No, it’s not perfect. I didn’t ask for it either. But that’s the deal.
January 10th, 2008 at 1:30 pmI pray for you on your missions. you helped a country from a dictator who would to murder innocent people. That’s what the U.S. does, always has done, and will continue to do. You are welcomed into my home at any time. it’s ok to support a soldier, but this war is long and hard and requires much patience and perserverence. i support the troops.
January 10th, 2008 at 2:10 pmTo nitpick, ‘Marine Corps is at war’ is correct. ‘Corps’ is not plural in this usage, even though the spelling makes it appear plural. It’s singular, the ‘Marine Corps’ is one body, one organization, one unit, hence it ‘is’ at war. My dad is a retired Marine, I asked him this very question a long time ago.
On another note, kudos to this site. Iraq is the greatest waste of lives - both American and foreign - money, economic vitality, and international political influence since Vietnam. An extremely costly mistake which may not be rectifiable in the short term, but whose damage can at least be halted. Bring them home.
January 10th, 2008 at 2:56 pm[…] Pat Dollard | Young Americans | Blog Archive » America At War? […]
January 10th, 2008 at 11:35 pmYou volunteered to be in the Marines.
January 11th, 2008 at 3:26 amI would have read this article but there is a better one on little miss B. Spears I am more interested in.
January 11th, 2008 at 4:59 amPoint of fact: America is NOT at war because according to the Constitution Congress hasn’t declared war. You remember the Constitution; it’s mentioned in our Oath:
“I, (state your name) do solemly swear to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, against ALL enemies, both foreign and domestic, and obey the orders of… ” The obey orders part comes second for a reason.
I am a retired soldier and I feel so sorry for my comrades in Iraq who are fighting an illegal war for a corrupt and undemocratic regime. I know the truth hurts but that is why I am at the Mall when I am not protesting.
You were told, among many other lies, that you are fighting for democracy in Iraq. Will you fight for democracy in America? Your enemy is in the White House.
January 11th, 2008 at 6:25 am[…] El Cuerpo de Marines está en la guerra; América está en el centro comercial”. Visto en una pintada en una pared de algún edificio de los marines estadounidenses destinados en […]
January 11th, 2008 at 3:24 pm