What’s Wrong With America?
In World War I, the United States imposed a military draft for a reason that seems strange today: to prevent too many of the nation’s most privileged citizens from rushing toward the sound of the guns.
( continued from above ) A draft would spread sacrifice beyond the elite, went the argument, and ensure that the country didn’t lose too many future leaders. Contrast this with the run-up to the Iraq War in 2003, when the New York Civil Liberties Union challenged a federal law allowing military recruiters to contact graduating seniors at public high schools. “Students,” the organization’s executive director said, “have a right to not be bothered by aggressive military recruiters.”
How did we change from a nation where military service was a duty of citizenship — akin to paying taxes or serving on a jury — to one where simply being asked to consider time in uniform is an infringement of civil rights?
In their compelling and inspiring cri de coeur, Kathy Roth-Douquet and Frank Schaeffer trace this societal shift, arguing that the schism between America’s military and its opinion-making class threatens the nation’s welfare. Both authors qualify as opinion-makers, and both have personal connections to the military. Roth-Douquet, a self-described “former agitator, feminist, Ivy Leaguer, Clintonite,” is married to a Marine pilot. Schaeffer, a novelist, painter and film-maker, saw his plans for his children — “top college, good grades, smart jobs, wife/husband, Subaru/Volvo, membership at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, IRA started early, kids, college fund” — derail when his youngest son enlisted in the Marines after high school.
That their stories are rare is a recent phenomenon. In 1956, 400 of Princeton’s 750 graduates served in uniform. By 2004, only nine members of the university’s graduating class entered the military. Harvard, Yale, Brown, Columbia and many other schools do not even allow ROTC on their campuses. The gulf is growing in Congress, too. In 1971, three-quarters of our representatives had military experience. Now, fewer than a third do, and that number drops with each passing year. Some citizens see no problem with this. We are indeed fortunate not to live in a militarized society, and our hyper-capable armed forces enjoy, at least superficially, broad support from the American people.
But Roth-Douquet and Schaeffer, who’ve written the book in alternating sections, unite to argue convincingly that there are at least three dangerous consequences of a civil-military divide. First, it hurts the nation’s ability to make sound military choices. Uniformed service is not a prerequisite for individual expertise in the conduct of war. Abraham Lincoln — arguably America’s greatest wartime president — never served in uniform (although he spent three months in an Illinois militia). In the aggregate, however, we benefit from having veterans in every corner of our decision-making apparatus: as presidential advisers, members of Congress and active citizens. Without them, our civilian leaders embody less and less of that visceral wisdom forged in harm’s way, and the problem perpetuates itself: If young people don’t serve today, then we won’t have older veterans in leadership positions tomorrow.
Second, a schism between the military and the rest of us weakens the armed forces. Absent broad and deep ties throughout society, the military becomes “them” instead of “us.” Roth-Douquet and Schaeffer fear that such a force “will be overused and underled and that support will run out fast for any project that becomes a political liability.” Consider that Franklin Roosevelt and Winston Churchill, unlike most political leaders today, both had children in uniform in the Second World War. Whether such personal connections actually affect policy is almost impossible to say, but common sense supports the authors’ assertion that “the grunt on the ground is best equipped, best trained, and best served when the opinion makers have a personal stake in his or her well-being.”
The greatest problem with an isolated military, however, is even less tangible. “When those who benefit most from living in a country contribute the least to its defense and those who benefit least are asked to pay the ultimate price, something happens to the soul of that country,” write the authors. That argument makes for the most powerful reading in the book: “We are shortchanging a generation of smart, motivated Americans who have been prejudiced against service by parents and teachers. Their parents may think they are protecting their children. Their teachers may think they are enlightening them. But perhaps what these young people are being protected from is maturity, selflessness, and the kind of ownership of their country that can give it a better future.”
In pointing the way to this better future, the authors place great value on the bully pulpits of public life. “Ask not what your country can do for you” is a long way from our government’s post-9/11 exhortation “to live your lives.” AWOL’s most heartening conclusion — that today’s young Americans would be willing to put service to country ahead of personal gain — is also its most maddening, because they haven’t been called. “I don’t want to draft” young people, Roth-Douquet declares. “I’d like to do something even more radical. I’d like to ask them to serve.” A good first step would be asking their parents and teachers to read this important book.
Reviewed by Nathaniel Fick
Copyright 2006, The Washington Post. All Rights Reserved.
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What’s wrong? See Claude Rousseau, the 1960’s, and “the cult of the self.”
I told my old SOB roommate on my way out (he made fun of me for joining the Marines, the shit-eating cocksucker) “Don’t worry dude, I’ll fight the terrorists, you just manage your California Pizza Kitchen.
Motherfucking piece of shit scumbag.
April 16th, 2007 at 5:22 amRumsfeld:
He made fun of you because he’s a coward and a coward’s worst fear is being judged by family, friends and society for what he is. He’s too afraid to take care of his country, so like every other too-weak child or woman, his country will have to take care of him. He’s a bitch: Manhood is not a birthright, it is earned.
April 16th, 2007 at 5:32 amFinally, Thank you
SGT WELSH
April 16th, 2007 at 5:43 amnationalism aside Pat, this man is a coward on the individual level. will this man wait until someone trys to kill his mother before he defends her, if he has reliable information before hand as to the perpetrators plans?
this should be a rhetorical question but in reality some people fear so much for personal safety that they may make excuses for why they dont act sooner when confronted with such a dilemma.
April 16th, 2007 at 5:45 am“If young people don’t serve today, then we won’t have older veterans in leadership positions tomorrow.”
And for every rule there are exceptions. Murtha & Kerry act like they have never served.
Y’all play nice. I’m jumping on the Harley and heading for Texas. See y’all in a couple weeks.
April 16th, 2007 at 5:55 amPeople like that are fucking worthless … America has grown soft in the decades … The point of being a American is lost and the ideals of serving your country don’t matter … The attitude that someone else will protect my freedoms and make sure I don’t hear the chants of a invading nation in our streets
April 16th, 2007 at 5:59 am@rumsfeld47: Beat the shit out of your roomate.
Where I live, joining the military is something to be respected. Shit, we have more vets in our town than anything else. My dad was in the 82nd AB, my next door neighbor was a marine, and both his sons are marines, across the street is a 20 year navy vet, and his son is in the navy seabees. 9 of my best buddies since grade school are in the military, and one is in Iraq right now. The best people I have ever met in my life are vets.
In short, don’t take any shit from anyone who makes fun of your choice to join the marines.
At least you didn’t join the air force
April 16th, 2007 at 6:04 amRumsfeld,
April 16th, 2007 at 6:23 amYou have probably seen or heard this but here you go. “Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they have made a difference. The U.S. Marines don’t have that problem.” Ronald Reagan
Rumsfeld47 - after you get out of basic find his girlfriend or sister or both and fuck them. Hard.
April 16th, 2007 at 6:28 amI think it’s time I shared my story with you, not as an exercise in narcissism, but because it’s apropos to this topic. I’ll mind the decorum, just this once.
Growing up, I never understood my father–a man who graduated college with a major in German, went directly into US Army OCS, graduated, and was training for Vietnam in Germany when the war ended. He was tough but fair, demanding the best from me and my older brother, and encouraging us to stay in shape. (I was never in shape until now.)
Everything he said seemed outdated and out of fashion in contrast to what I learned in my very conservative Lutheran school, what I heard from my friends, and what I saw on television. It wasn’t until last month, after I swore in, that everything he said and did finally made sense to me.
I was always an excellent student, and I took up the piano in 8th grade. (I also wrote a research paper on Oliver North–my teacher still shows it to her students.) After a two-year stint at a very un-Christian Lutheran high school (where the only recruiters I ever spoke to were Marines, because of their music programs), I went to Interlochen Arts Academy for my last two years. If you’re unfamiliar, it’s the nation’s premiere boarding arts high school, with equally good (and tough as nails) academics.
My piano teacher, a brilliant man, a traditional man uninterested in liberal BS (for the most part), had a wayward son who was a Marine. His pictures were on the wall, and he talked about him all the time. His parents supported him, even though they didn’t quite understand his decision.
I graduated “most improved in my studio,” honor roll, et cetera, and my auditions for college won me the top scholarship available at Lawrence University. My test scores were great. I went to UMKC instead.
It took me almost four years to realize I didn’t fit in at all at UMKC, and I didn’t graduate. I’m sure you know of a kid who has oodles of potential and chooses not to exploit it–that was me. I hung out with the wrong crowd, with the wrong politics, but my stubbornness and desire to stick out led me to study communism and Shostakovich (for the artistic angle). I slowly realized that communists were bad, and that Republicans were the only people who realized it and did anything about it. I came back to Conservatism when I was 20, stronger than ever, but I still floundered about.
I came home in April 2005 with nothing to show for myself, got a job waiting tables, and worked my way up from California Pizza Kitchen to the Ritz-Carlton St. Louis, where I could have made $33,000 a year and gone to school at night. Fortunately, the manager hated non-Bosnians and he fired me for “poor performance.” (Try serving a fine restaurant with 150 people with six waiters; of course things won’t be perfect.) And just so you know–I’m the kind of waiter who got an extra $200 gratuity on a table where the check was $1000 and the included gratuity was $180.
I got a job across the street where I made half the money and was treated like a dog–this was around last fall–and they didn’t like me, either, perhaps because I didn’t have much patience for people who couldn’t handle their stuff. In any case, they fired me on Christmas Eve, then my car was stolen on New Year’s Eve, and it became crystal clear (again) this did not fit.
I got hooked on News crack from studying communism— to this day, I spend anywhere from an hour to four hours a day reading–and I slowly realized (and that “wasted youth” line from Pat’s Opening Credits helped) that in my current form, I was worse than worthless; I fully understood what was going on, why it was important, and I chose to remain in the audience, while the real men were in the orchestra.
Being on the sidelines was eating my soul. I called my recruiter again, went back to St. Louis MEPS, and swore in at the beginning of March. I’ve never felt better in my life, and I’ve never felt so connected to my father.
–end of life story–
Could it be that all along, God was calling me to be a Marine? Ollie North, the recruiters when I went to Lutheran high school, my piano teacher’s Marine son, the return to Conservatism… but even with the right thoughts, I was still just doing whatever the fuck I wanted to do.
I know a lot of guys like myself (my buddy Jerusalem, who hasn’t posted here in a while, has similar currents in the river of his life [what gay writing!]), full of potential without the execution. Sure, we could finish college and get a job. Sure, we could get a job and finish college.
But maybe we’re the young men God has called to defend our country, and because of the liberal world we were raised in, it takes us a few years to realize that everything the world had to say (follow your dreams, do what you want to do, have high self-esteem no matter how much you mess up) was just noise, drowning out the little whisper in the back of our heads saying, “You’re called to something more important than yourself.”
If any young men considering serving their country are reading, consider this: there is a very real assault on Western Civilization ongoing, Europe has been outflanked, and America is the world’s last hope against evil men. How will you feel when you’re on the sidelines, when the world finally overdoses on the multi-cultural cocaine it’s been snorting ever since the 1950’s? When your entire town is woken up by a call to prayer, as is the case in some London towns? Or when you’re woken up by a mushroom cloud outside your window?
My only regret is that it took me six years to tune out the noise and listen to the whisper. If you’re still in doubt, go watch 300 until you feel like contacting a recruiter. And read this:
http://victorhanson.com/articles/hanson041307.html
April 16th, 2007 at 6:32 amTwo coworkers of mine have recently suffered the revelation that their sons are gay. They are viewed as so enlightened for being accepting of it, after being naturally repulsed and heartsick at first. That’s what’s wrong with America. IMO.
My son is serving in the Army, has been for almost two years. I don’t want him serving with most of his generation who are so screwed up. “I’m gay!” and we’re supposed to rejoice or at least act like they’re friggin cool, whatever.
Anyway, I’m NOT looked at as cool or enlightened for having a son in the Army. People whisper when they ask me how he’s doing, with a tragic expression. To hell with them. I smile and say, “He’s doing great, he loves what he’s doing.” Then I have to run to a mirror and check to make sure I don’t really have 2 heads.
April 16th, 2007 at 6:37 amive got a few good reads you guys may enjoy, leon kass’ “the wisdom of repugnance” and thucydides: pericles’ “funeral oration”. look em up on the web, both are fairly short reads, but very good. cheers
April 16th, 2007 at 6:45 amRumsfeld:
I waited to die with Ollie North the night before the last elections in Iraq. The two of us took a midnight deathride, crouched like hunted animals in the open back of a highback Humvee, down the center of Ramadi. There’s not much scarier a thing to do in life. Our destination was OP Horea, a ramshackle little OP that enjoyed the rep of being “the most dangerous spot on earth”. We made it fine. And the next day, from Horea’s roof, I filmed a wounded insurgent crawling desperately down MSR Michigan’s sidewalk, bullets shredding his body, as buddies standing next to me finished him off.
It’s good to be a Marine.
April 16th, 2007 at 6:49 amI would get that look and some ‘that’s tough’ kind of comments and I would just smile at them and respond with comments like - he is doing great and wants to make sure you are safe - it’s fun to watch the reactions.
April 16th, 2007 at 6:50 amIn sales so I had to be polite, but sit at my desk and it was in your face.
Tolerance in my view is the biggest problem. In saying that I can find more good than bad no matter how many depressed leftists tell me otherwise. This is the best Nation in the world.
Rumsfeld, I know people in their forties that still don’t get it.
Pat, well said and full of the truth.
April 16th, 2007 at 6:52 amGuys, I appreciate your support. My roommate definitely suffers from FAMS–false alpha-male syndrome.
He’ll never be able to fuck a woman like I will.
April 16th, 2007 at 6:53 amThanks for that story, Pat–it gave me a hard-on! Good thing I’m not posting this at my folk’s house, my mom would say “Stephen, what are you doing on the internet?! ARE YOU LOOKING AT THAT PORN CRAP IN MY HOUSE?!”
“Just reading about the Marine Corps, mom! I swear!”
“Bullshit, drop and give me 20!”
April 16th, 2007 at 6:59 am^^^^^you may find this helpful rummy.
April 16th, 2007 at 7:03 amOne thing Rummy could say to the idiot roomie:
I realize you’re a complete and total insecure, coward pussy asshole, and that you are congenitally and sadly ignorant of the fact that there are women who sign up for the military who are 10x the man you could ever hope to be.
However, what puzzles me most about your critical lack of grey matter is the fact that the most powerful weapon of self-preservation YOU will ever carry in your lame arsenal, “Just Keep My Fucking Mouth Shut”, is the one, for whatever pussy-assed reason, you have chosen not to use … Know that other people who consider that weapon obsolete, but punish those like yourself who fail to use it, usually fire retaliatory strikes that tend to leave very little identifiable remains behind.
April 16th, 2007 at 7:21 amFormer roommate, sorry I didn’t make that clear.
April 16th, 2007 at 7:26 amWhen I was around 16 my Dad said Kid you owe this
April 16th, 2007 at 7:34 amCountry and don’t you forget it…I never did. Ive
been around the world and have never found a place
better than America.I chose the Navy and chose to
ride a Distroyer aka Tincan Fast tough ship…After
that 34 years doing high voltage line construction
and 11 years building Cell towers.I have seen the best
and the worst of American workers.The best,around 96%
are just that the best.Try rebuilding line in 10 below
you see who the real men are.the rest are just a bunch
of candy ass punks,you don’t need . The same goes for
our Military. America Land of the Free because of the
Brave…Well time to go catch a few Bass.Life is good
and so is retirement…
rummy,
My suggestion can be used on any asshole when needed
April 16th, 2007 at 7:39 amRumsfeld47
There are decisions in life. Good people like you will always be at peace with ALL their decisions.
For me, I feel the baton on the hear and the screaming in my ear. The actions of libs are fucking up the nation and security. I hate politics…I hate the seeming wasted effort of it all. But I must take action. Been spending time learning about all the shit I tuned out for years.
Not sure where to “enlist” yet, but I’ll reach my goal of affecting the apethetic conservatives into action - myself with them.
Lastly,
Not to preach at ya, just some info … 4 of my friends are career military and they have been forced to get degrees to stay in their current roles. My neighbor Greg is in same situation. Been helping when I could. As for myself, I couldn’t work well with the latest new management in my last job (libs that they were) so I went to get new work. Can’t without the 4 year degree - accociates degree isn’t enough. I’m back in school at 46. Take from it what you wish…
Thanks
April 16th, 2007 at 7:50 amI try to rise above that shit; I learned before I signed up that you either understood such a decision, or you did not. I don’t judge people who don’t join the military. It’s not for everybody; however, I simply walk away when people tell me I have something to prove, or I have a death wish, or I joined the branch for “dumbasses,” et cetera.
Believe me, I’m fine. The only girls he fucks are the sluts who love their drugs. I hope he enjoys the herpes! I want me a Texas gal who can cook, a hottie who’s waiting for marriage. A real woman for a real man.
Now if you’ll excuse me, this grass ain’t gonna plant itself.
April 16th, 2007 at 7:51 amHello Gentlemen
April 16th, 2007 at 7:56 amI agree with the fundamental contradiction that is the US Military , those who serve their country should be commended , however even they must surely feel undervalued when the country they put their lives on the line for is so selfish in its means of defending itself , the fact that virtually no member of the House or Senate has a child serving in the Armed forces should highlight the Injustice. They like making the “HArd” decisions on risking the lives of other peoples children, why do they seek to preserve the so called values of a country that clearly has no real respect for them . Its easy to give them cheap words of support safe at home in America but the real support by joining their sacrifice and commitment is non existent from anyone connected to or including the powers that be. Like alot of reality that is seldom addressed in America due to the fact that the implications of that reality are not favourable to Americas Conscience, anyone raising such a reality has to be commened. Pat Dollard did join that sacrifice and Fair play to him , if anyone has justification in being critical its him
I’m ready to go right now. I think the government needs to ask the 40 and over crowd,” who among you is willing to take a trip of a lifetime to Iraq?” I know a whole truckload of guys who would go in a heartbeat.
April 16th, 2007 at 7:59 amNothing would give me a greater feeling, and I do mean nothing.
Too many so called Americans have too much invested in the losing side of this war–assholes.
I’m just ready for unbridled firepower to be unleashed on the insurgents throughout that part of the world.
Sign me up.
Pat
I want to do a little research later this week you might know right off. I found that NYCLU is still active on this issue of fighting recruiting in schools.
Do you know if the federal law was challenged and upheld or what? If it was, its still under attack.
Thanks
April 16th, 2007 at 8:05 amGramps
They may act like they never served, they both still serve…. the enemy.
April 16th, 2007 at 8:14 amChad and Gramps; Very well said
April 16th, 2007 at 8:18 am“…however even they must surely feel undervalued when the country they put their lives on the line for is so selfish in its means of defending itself , the fact that virtually no member of the House or Senate has a child serving in the Armed forces should highlight the Injustice …”
Daithi
April 16th, 2007 at 8:19 amMy post was to be:
“…however even they must surely feel undervalued when the country they put their lives on the line for is so selfish in its means of defending itself , the fact that virtually no member of the House or Senate has a child serving in the Armed forces should highlight the Injustice …”
Daithi,
THAT’S COMPLETE BULLSHIT!!! DO your research! Congressional members do have kids/family in battle! I suppose you’re of the mind that Bush needs to send his daughters to war in Iraq.
Not only that but a good percentage of Officers have kids serving and in the battles, and some have had their kids KIA. (See: retired Gen. Paul Valely (sp) a Fox News contributor, who’s own son was KIA in Iraq a couple years ago.)
You’re flying under that John Kerry bullshit cloud that the only people in the military are kids who are uneducated, and too dumb to stay out of the military/war.
You people really fuck me off raw!
April 16th, 2007 at 8:23 amPlease try and express yourself without reducing your argument to profanity
April 16th, 2007 at 8:29 amPlease research and see If I am right about the congress and Senate, I said virtually no member , I would say thee is less than 2%, if I am wrong my apologies to you.
April 16th, 2007 at 8:30 amDaithi,
April 16th, 2007 at 8:34 amIf the use of colorful language offends you, you are in the wrong spot. Don’t let the cursor hit you in the ass on the way out.
Fuck’s wrong with you Drilanwr? Are you new to this motherfucker?
April 16th, 2007 at 8:35 amTry not to upset the nappy headed hos.
April 16th, 2007 at 8:38 amFunny how a little language offends that side of the isle but not the assholes demeaning the country on a day-to-day basis.
April 16th, 2007 at 8:39 amRummy,
Do what I did to some facist college students from way back when. When someone would give me flack about being in the Corps, I would remain calm (hard to do at times) and say “I’m willing to die for you to be that way, and for our country, what can you do to help the country?”
I never got any reply back other than the occasional “I’m Sorry” muttered while they looked at the ground and walked away. I went to a liberal college, and still made great grades, used my Marine experience to help in a lot of papers and reports. No one ever had any detractions to say.
I gotta hand it to you for joining the Corps, I tell people that anyone who willingly goes through Marine Basic training needs a psych eval, and having said that I tell them I would still be willing to go through it again…
April 16th, 2007 at 8:43 amRumsfeld…”But maybe we’re the young men God has called to defend our country,…” You are, I watched my son make the same journey. I freaked during the communism phase. The doubts and resistance you had to overcome put you on a strong foundation that you’ll need. Thanks for your story.
Steve in NC–You’re bad!
I have to be polite also and put a sock in it.
April 16th, 2007 at 8:46 amPat,
If you’ve been reading my posts you know it takes A HELL OF A LOT for me to bring out the F-bomb …
I’ve NO patience with [those] who feel the bowel need to keep score as to “whose kids” are or aren’t serving. That smarmy tactic just fucks me off … raw!
April 16th, 2007 at 8:55 amHey Rummy another thing, if you think I am just trying to put another poolee in his place, you are starting to show your ass a little. Ever hear of “advice” Until you have been through what very few have, you are not worthy of licking the camelshit off a Marines’ boots. Talking like Billy Bad-Ass doesn’t make you one.
Just so you also realize, you have some very good views, but the way you get defensice from getting advice? You have m elaughing in my Beer! You think just because you are a puke poolee you can talk like a salt? Up Yours. I wish I could be there when the DI’s first get to see you as a piece of fresh meat.
April 16th, 2007 at 8:57 amP.S.
I don’t give a flying monkey shit if it’s 1% or 0%!!! That’s as irrelevant as “how many troops serving like to roll the toilet paper from the front or the back” …
Spare me.
April 16th, 2007 at 9:03 amShit, John McCain’s kid is in A/1/1 now… At least SOME of the children of politicians still have some balls.
April 16th, 2007 at 9:07 amPat,along the lines of what Mike was talking about.I think the Army has an age limit of 42 but the other branches are nowhere near that.Why wouldn’t they want a mature 30-40 year old that is smart,takes orders well (from wives normally),and is a crack shot with a 30-06??I would be willing to bet if they boosted up the age limits they wouldn’t have any quota issues.
April 16th, 2007 at 9:10 amGmoney,
The age limit was upped for all branches, Go hit your local recruiter up for a good time.
April 16th, 2007 at 9:22 amI could never serve because I stink under pressure-not good in an emergency. I have nothing but respect for those that do serve, and I think we sould not mock those who choose to do so, but should applaud them
April 16th, 2007 at 9:29 amMindy, well said. And I agree for the most part. I served from ‘84 to ‘96, I got an older brother retiring this year from the Air Force, I commend him on his service, but also call him a hypocrite, he is extremely liberal, and was all for when Clinton slashed the military to the bone. He and his lib wife hate conservatives, and use that as the sole reason for not visiting for over 18 years…
April 16th, 2007 at 9:35 amG-Money:
You can join the Marine Corps Reserve up to age 43.
I’ll see you in Iraq.
April 16th, 2007 at 9:37 amdrillanwr:
I’ve got no problem with you cussing. I was fucking with that chick.
April 16th, 2007 at 9:40 amThat’s good Pat.
Chick? You sure?
April 16th, 2007 at 9:56 amPat,
Awesome Article, in the book “Making the Corps” the author talks about the seperation between society and the military and has comments that are very truthful. I have been in the Marine Corps Reserve since November 2004. In Bootcamp the terms nasty, shitbag, heinous, were commonly attached to the word Civillian. After 13 weeks of being in that world of DI’s it becomes a way you naturally think. When I went onto MCT and MOS School just about every Marine I met had the same idea of civillians, since May of 05 I’ve been actively drilling and waiting my turn for Iraq with my company and have been in a daily grind with civillians. I still believe in good honest people exsitsting, I know that its because of where I grew up in rural Iowa, and when I travel out to places (mostly cities) I see my generation acting horribly selfish and tottaly unbehaved look at the media and all the role models for the even younger age group has to go off (Brat dolls need to be ripped form shelves and destroyed). If it continues were fucked as a nation even more than we are now. the Very Elderly Generation is an excellent role model to learn about etiquette, Manners, Respect, Honesty, and caring about your community and nation before you worry about what shade of blue your 15th pair of nikes is going to be.
I am passing this website and article to many of my friends.
Semper Fi,
Lcpl Greer
April 16th, 2007 at 9:57 amPat,
This “chick” appreciates that.
BTW (Cripes, I know how people hate those Internet abbreviations):
Daithi,
If you’re still hanging around … I jumped in the hot water and had a few more moments of thought on your agenda in highlighting whose kid(s) are or are not serving in this war.
IF you actually were addressing this current democrat led Congress’s impotency and inability to get behind “someone else’s kids” serving in theater by PROPERLY FUNDING AND BACKING THEIR VICTORY, (where as they wouldn’t treat their OWN military kids in such a shitty cheapskate and cowardly political manner) … then, yeah, I completely agree with you.
However, having conceded that, about 1/4 of an inch, to you, my ancestral Mongolian and Hun instincts strongly tell me my first impression, and subsequent F-bomb, were both right on target.
April 16th, 2007 at 10:36 amJesus, this topic’s comments have grown like weed!
What are those “Corps values” again? Honor, courage… decorum, right? I think that’s what it is…
As far as the Congressional children in Iraq numbers… last time I checked was 2003, but it much higher than the average percentage for civilians. Add that to the members of Congress who have served, (great men like John Murtha and John Kerry) and you’ve found yourself with the most militarily populated and propagated non-military organization in America. I’m too lazy to look up the number, and it’s a canard, anyway.
This whole idea of “giving your children”… excuse me, I’m 24, my mother is not “giving” me to the Corps. If I die, hand her the flag, by all means, but I’ll have given my own life, thank you. I don’t always think people realize this is a figure of speech… “Support our troops,” fine. “Bring our troops home now,” whose troops? Your troops? I guess I missed the part of the oath where I pledged to give Cindy Sheehan the right to pretend I belong to her; I do remember something about defending the Constitution and following orders, and something about wearing my uniform with justice, I don’t know.
Brad, it’s not that I don’t appreciate advice, generally, but I’ve sought it out enough on my own, and I’m tired of having it shoved down my throat when I’ve already heard it before. For the last time, I KNOW I’LL GET SMOKED ON A DAILY BASIS IN BOOTCAMP. If I want more advice, I’ll ask–anything else is unwelcome! Nothing personal, man; it’s not just you, it’s a great many people here and elsewhere that think I haven’t done my homework.
The only respect in which I’m not ready for bootcamp physically is pull-ups… still having a hard time getting my chin up there. Here’s what I want to know, specifically: am I going to be able to do one faster by doing assisted pull-ups and other such exercises DAILY, or EVERY OTHER DAY? I’ve heard letting your muscles rest lets them rebuild, but doing stuff every day builds endurance. Can you handle that without the lecture on how much my ass will get smoked in basic?
And FYI, I talked like this before I joined the Corps. It has nothing to do with trying to talk like a Marine; I can’t help it if some of my recruiter’s lines rub off on me.
April 16th, 2007 at 10:57 am“This whole idea of “giving your children”… excuse me, I’m 24, my mother is not “giving” me to the Corps. If I die, hand her the flag, by all means, but I’ll have given my own life, thank you. I don’t always think people realize this is a figure of speech…”
A-a-a-a-a-a-a-a!!!!
YES! THANK YOU, Rummy!
April 16th, 2007 at 11:14 amrumsfeld47-
Every bit of hesitation I had about joining the Corps went out the window when I read your story and realized how close it sounds to my own. I’m contacting the recruiter this week.
Thank You
April 16th, 2007 at 11:28 am@rumsfeld47:
Great story. Thank you for sharing.
(Hey, I supported Interlochen with donations via ACCOP not so long ago!)
I know that those that strength train do it intensely, then rest a day or two in-between. Maybe you could try that?
Here’s a kicker: Since I was so liberal in my younger life, I never signed up for Selective Service when I turned 18. (A rather absolutely stupid move in my long list of absolutely stupid moves.)
The penalty, as I understand it, is that since the age of registration has gone way past now (what’s the limit? 26? I can’t remember offhand), I can never apply for any federal grant, federal help or job *unless* I can prove that the situation was not intentional.
Since I’m the kind of person who owes up to his mistakes, I won’t lie that I didn’t intentionally blow Selective Service off.
I must have slipped through the cracks, as it were, because they never came after me (which they should have). They did, however, snag my brother. Odd, no?
I’m not sure if all this matters; I suffer terribly from migraines that can cripple me for a few days straight, so I’m not sure how much good I would be to my brothers-in-arms. I can feel like I’m on top of the world one day, and feel like I’m going to take my head and ram it into the wall the next.
Anyone reading this is probably wondering at which point I switched from a military-hating fuckhead to a full-on military-loving patriot. I’m not even sure. What I do know is that the last vestiges of liberalism I had started to erode with (Bill) Clinton and ended with 9/11.
In the meantime, as a civilian-cum-former-liberal-military-hating-asshat, I do what I can to support our brave men and women in the military, both materially and financially. I even offered to do any work for Pat on “Young Americans” pro bono. (My offer still stands, of course.) I think I owe them that much, however small it seems to me.
April 16th, 2007 at 12:06 pm@ Rumsfeld47
Don’t have any regrets about the six years it took you to turn down the noise so you could hear the wisper.
(Remember my comments about how I got where I’m right now?)
You had to go that path to grow into where you are now. Just some luggage-of-life you will find of great substance in the near future.
Good luck, let me buy you a
. (But, not in Texas 
)
April 16th, 2007 at 12:54 pmrumsfeld47,
“…if you think I am just trying to put another poolee in his place, you are starting to show your ass a little.” ~ Brad
“Brad, it’s not that I don’t appreciate advice, generally, but I’ve sought it out enough on my own, and I’m tired of having it shoved down my throat when I’ve already heard it before.” ~ Rummy
I’ve resisted commenting on your bootcamp comments up until now, which was hard when you mislabeled Army basic as ‘bootcamp’ (quote):
“I don’t know anything about the Army, but if it’s not too late, think USMC. Your bootcamp is weak.” ~Rummy, April 10th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
…but anyway, I know what it’s like to get advice on training ~ it’s simply not all the same and many guys just don’t want or need it!
I would like to add though, it’s obnoxious as all hell when guys sign up and start flaunting their fucking toughness by talking about something they haven’t even done yet! Please just take that AS IS, you’ll soon feel the same, TRUST US!
BUT, with that said, I now don’t believe you’re doing that so much after reading your ’story’ and reading your response to Brad. My story is actually not that unlike yours and it was a great read, thanks for sharing.
So you know, I’m an Army Sergeant and only ask that you do ONE THING, please be respectful and at least *SMILE* when you tell Army grunts “take your fucking dick out of your mouth when you say ‘HOO-RAH!’” and remember, we in the Army do the 15 month tours for a reason, because we can fucking handle them!
Have fun on your 6 month vacation(s) to play in the sandbox!! We fuck with each other, sure, but the RESPECT is always there!!! Thanks for putting your money, and your life, where your mouth is.
~Ren
April 16th, 2007 at 12:56 pmSCORE FOR THE CORPS! HOO-RAH!
Somebody who knows–should I try to “refer” kscore? Might be worth it to try to get those dress blues (I already have PFC because of my fancy college book learnin’.)
REN, word.
And I’m not trying to flaunt anything other than my chainsaw-like wit… I’m not the sharpest cookie shy of a load, you know. I wasn’t born tomorrow.
I find Pat’s website totally mind-bottling, which is why I put my dick in the mashed potatoes sometimes.
April 16th, 2007 at 1:33 pmRumsfeld,
“What are those “Corps values” again? Honor, courage… decorum, right? I think that’s what it is…”
You’ve got it all wrong, it’s “Semper I, fuck the other guy” - blue falcon all the way!!! And who can do the best job of taking the GREEN WEENIE any time of the day, without lube.
April 16th, 2007 at 4:07 pmAll this talk about serving in the military gives you different perspectives and all that is right on! There’s something different about the men and women who willingly put their ass on the line for shitty pay and a stint in the sandbox. But what’s the difference between a peace-time military and a war-time military? I think we’re in an important transition right now and I think the transition is what made early operations in Iraq difficult. The shitty COs are getting weeded out, which is good news for the grunts.
As for Kerry, that piece of shit can hardly claim he wore the uniform. What kind of officer writes himself up for a purple heart. I respect every American in uniform, but the shitheads are out there.
Rummy you’re a motivated shit. Keep that mentallity up cuz you’re gonna need it. Especially when the self promoting John Kerry’s in the service get you down. Are you going to PI?
April 16th, 2007 at 4:27 pm–end of life story–
omg you’re a ghost?
“”We fuck with each other, sure, but the RESPECT is always there!!! Thanks for putting your money, and your life, where your mouth is.”"
All should bear in mind that no matter what service, rank, specialty, occupation, etc. There is always someone better than YOU.
April 16th, 2007 at 4:37 pm“”The shitty COs are getting weeded out, which is good news for the grunts.”"
OH NO THEY AREN’T!! BELIEVE ME!
I live in Carlisle PA, literally four miles from the US Army War College and I spend all the time I can working and buddying with the COLs. Believe me, if we aren’t short on one thing, it’s stupid or otherwise just poor quality officers. And that goes for everybody ; Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, and the international fellows.
Idiots are by no means in short supply. And idiots up top means idiots down below! NCOs should be allowed to beat Lieuys I tell ya…
The way to fix our problem requires that the Clinton years that kicked up the gears a notch in turning the military into another government agency (fucking politics and beaurocracy) need to be stopped, their products sacked, for a revitalization of OCS and more encouragement and oppurtunity for NCOs to go to OCS, and a million other things that people smarter than me can figure out.
April 16th, 2007 at 5:03 pmstarkc-
Did you get that on a power point presentation?
April 16th, 2007 at 5:15 pm“Thanks for putting your money, and your life, where your mouth is.”
I’d like some hot chick to put her titties where my mouth is. Or, as my recruiter said, “put your head between her tits and go wacka-wacka!”
April 16th, 2007 at 5:32 pmNo, I did not. I would in fact be shocked to see it put that bluntly in a briefing.
Why do you ask?
April 16th, 2007 at 5:47 pmHave read about the power point ‘jockeys’ that have spread in areas of command in the service, with a bunch of words and graphs and shown on pretty slides. Sounds inpart to what you are referring to.
April 16th, 2007 at 6:02 pmI thought that could be ironic.
Ah. Yes. Powerpoints can be good, but they can also be pure torture. We used them on Kahlid Sheik Mohammed for about a year, then he cracked. He can’t even look at microsoft apps anymore and he freaks out whenever someone says “windows”.
Almost kinda sad, till you remember he’s a fucking dirtbag to put it nicely.
Are you military?
April 16th, 2007 at 6:18 pmActually, he cracked after Internet Explorer “had to close due to an error” every damn day he used it.
My former roommate (the dickhole) bought an Acer laptop with great guts but it came preloaded with so much bullshit (and without genuine back-up software, you had to burn Acer’s start-up discs yourself) that it ran about as fast as a one-legged turd. “I’ve gotta call Geek Squad,” he says, before I hook up his home network for him.
He got pissed at me one day because Windows automatically updated to IE7 (”Computer will shut down in 2 minutes for update”); I told him to use Firefox, and he’s all like, “don’t be downloading shit.” (Cocksucker.)
I’m at my bro’s right now, he’s a professional computer dude (balls to the wall), and Firefox is the shit. Although I’m surprised “dickhole” gets underlined as a misspelled word; I’ll have to add it to the dictionary.
April 16th, 2007 at 6:39 pmThat is the regret of my life, not having served. My son is serving, in Iraq now, spent a year in the ’stan in 04 - 05.
I never pushed him for the service, I did mention that regret only once to him when he was aroung 15. I signed off for him when he was 17 to join. Have family that has served also.
I am in my 40’s now, so that opportunity has passed by. I was pretty left leaning in my wasted youth, then I grew up and preferred to deal with reality.
I simply respect those that have stepped up. There is nobility in the act of defending the nation.
April 16th, 2007 at 6:43 pmEspecially at this time in history the troops need to know how important it is in what they do and that they are loved and supported.
rumsfeld,
good read on your life story and thanks for the reference to the victor hanson article.
Though i served for 6 years in the airforce and army reserve during the gulf war, I still contemplate going back in. I am of age though my knees are in bad shape. Outside of the trash talking on this site I am greatly inspired by the likes of yourself to give it another try. for now I will stay here and defend the homeland from the islamists pricks.
April 16th, 2007 at 7:06 pmSteve,
Somebody told me never to regret anything because at one point, it was what you really wanted to do.
Besides, with a child serving you’ve made a contribution. I happen to come from a VERY military family. And almost everybody has served. But any parent who supports their child this way is doing their part. And you signed off on his early enlistment papers. MY parents didn’t do that for me (or else I’d already be a TACP). I don’t think I was convincing enough.
TJ,
April 16th, 2007 at 7:20 pmAir Force, what’d you do if I may ask?
Heh the only reason I stay in college, is that I’ve wanted to be an officer since grade 2. My real education will begin 1 1/2 hours to the north in Quantico.
April 16th, 2007 at 9:02 pmWise,
You don’t to go to college to be eligible for a sex change
I keed I keed. Killin’ myself here. Good luck with ROTC (you’re in ROTC right? Or just planning to attend OCS?).
April 17th, 2007 at 6:15 amstarkc,
i spoke too soon. maybe i should re-phrase what i meant. the JOs are getting better. the full birds and cluster’s are all peace-time made. im 20 min from DC and im knee-deep in the bureaucratic shit-train that has became our U.S. military. here’s something i laugh at every time i hear it: one of the CNO’s current top priorities is an exploration of diversity in the Navy. i would think that maybe patrolling Iraqi waters, curbing piracy, or general support for the land war would trump it, but hey, peace-time warriors in a time of war. what should i expect?
A.S. Wise,
April 17th, 2007 at 10:27 amhave fun pulling the ticks off your balls in quantico.
As I said, idiots up top mean idiots down below. There are plenty of 01-3s that need a good whuppin’ to get the sense into their heads. I should not have to show an officer who is TEACHING a land nav course to his guys how to use a compass or explain MGRS. Period.
I am stopping this line of comments here before I say something stupid.
But I believe you. There has always been something screwy about the guys who work at NGB and the DoD (and the rest of the DC-Balti/Mead-Alexandria/Langley/Andrews area). But it’s been getting worse. I think I mentioned the military becoming more government agency than military, something which in the last couple years has been a hot topic here at the AWC. It’s broken everybody into basically three groups.
The guys that like it, the guys that are freaking out and want it to stop/reverse, and the guys who deny it.
Whatever will we do?
Wise,
April 17th, 2007 at 11:26 amHahah yeah. Chiggers too. NASTY chiggers. Want a tip? Mix repellant with baking soda and gold bond, then rub it into your legs.
In the defense of young officers I should mention that the guys in my little story is a Guardsmen. It makes little difference, but I should be straightforward with that.
April 17th, 2007 at 11:27 amLove the blog Pat! And of course I love this entry- seeing as how I didn’t want to hear the endless chants of “chickenhawk” back in 2003. So, being the oldest candidate in my officer school class was a badge of honor. I am one of the oldest First Lieutenants in the Air Force, but feel it is the duty of all to serve in time of war. It is embarrassing how many rich kids in Potomac and Bethesda Maryland hang out at the malls instead of doing anything to help their fellow citizens.
April 17th, 2007 at 12:10 pmWhat is it you do sir? I’m only curious.
April 17th, 2007 at 12:38 pmstarkC,,
I was an air traffic controller for 1 year and then moved to airfield management for my remaining 2 1/2 years.
April 17th, 2007 at 10:10 pmOkay, that was meant fot “LT Fishman”. But knowing there are other AF around is still nice.
April 18th, 2007 at 6:11 amI think recruiters should not be allowed to recruit in High Schools unless its during a career day alongside all the other jobs, like firefighter, police, etc. This makes the playing field equal.
April 18th, 2007 at 3:35 pmI am with Rummy on this one, if you have the drive and feel it in your bones, you are going to serve no matter how old you get. My brother graduated from CU and started working for Merill Lynch, did pretty well financially. He was living the American dream. I ended up going to school at DU, about 45 mins away from his school. Needless to say, for my entire fresh year and his senior year, all saw in his eyes was his desire to join the Corps. But as any good son would do whos father paid 200,000 to get a degree, he got a job and worked his ass off for three and half years at Merril. He had a shitty boss but bit the bullet and worked his ass off. Finally after for years, he’d had enough. Make a long story short, he went to the USMC’s recruiting office in the USS Intrepid in NYC and applied for the USMC’s OCS program. Funny thing is, when he told the Merril branch manager he was leaving, the boss replied, “thats great and we are very proud of you. By the way here is your employee of the month certificate and a raise notice.” Funny shit but two years later, my brother is having the time of his life and couldn’t be any happier. I honestly don’t think he could of handled a desk job. Some people just have serving their country and being a Marine in their sole, you can’t change it and the feeling will never die. It didn’t with my brother and eventually it will overcome you, just like it did with Rummy and my brother. I only wish god hadn’t fucked with a medical condition that prevents me from signing up, I already tried in high school, otherwise I would be there in heartbeat!!!!! Its why I will NEVER IN MY LIFE BE A BLEEDING LIBERAL! Also funny fact, four out of the five guys that lived in my brothers house in Boulder, are now honorably serving their county, two which are currently deployed to the middle east and are Green Berets. We don’t know their location because it is classified. RUMMY
April 18th, 2007 at 5:20 pmif you are in St. Louis like i think you said, that means your are to report the Pedalton right? Good luck man and godbless!!!!
fraser
Camp Pendleton is significantly farther north of MCRD-San Diego, although I will get to enjoy a fabulous weekend vacation from boot-camp at a lovely hotel called “the Crucible,” where they serve only the finest obstacles, where the beds are literally hard as rocks, and where they provide two free continental MREs for your nutrition and delicion.
I look forward to the weather, but I don’t look forward to the airplanes.
April 18th, 2007 at 8:00 pmRummy,
“…am I going to be able to do one faster by doing assisted pull-ups and other such exercises DAILY, or EVERY OTHER DAY? I’ve heard letting your muscles rest lets them rebuild, but doing stuff every day builds endurance.”
I’ve gone round and round on a related topic and have come to THIS ~> you can do EITHER or BOTH! There’s really no easy answer on this. These exercises are more endurance than strength or body building, so your recovery times will build to the point where you could get away with workouts every day if you want them.
At first, you may want to ease into the stress of the exercise by skipping a day or rotating your workout, but eventually you SHOULD be able to handle the 20+ pull-ups that you’re GOING TO MAKE YOURSELF DO (exclamation point) every day, maybe even multiple times a day until you know you have it in the bag. I’d use the assisted pull-ups to get above the max goal I set, then each day keep trying to get more unassisted pull-ups in before using the assist to finish your sets.
Pyramid workouts are good too… not doing 20 straight pull-ups, but instead doing 1 pull-up, rest 10 seconds, 2 pull-ups, rest, 3, rest, 4, rest… when you can’t finish a number, immediately reverse the order back to zero and rest for a few minutes. Change the rest period if you have to, get a bud to do them with you for motivation. Do the pyramid a few times, until you have sufficiently worn yourself out.
Or, start at a number you know you can barely finish, say you can only do 10, do that set of 10, and then rest for a minute, do one less than before (9), rest, two less (8), rest… and so forth until you are only doing one really hard pull-up, almost failing that one! If you get to the lower numbers and they’re easy, keep going with your sets until one and then start over but do as many as you can and start the count down again until you do hit ONE REALLY HARD PULL-UP. And you’re done for that particular pull-up workout. Does this make sense?
During my time in training, I actually ran against the current Marine pull-up record holder (he was a good runner too). I wished that I could have spoken with him after I found out who he was but didn’t have time to. Several friends of mine actually did get a chance to shoot the shit with him and they talked about his routine a little.
The most interesting thing I found out about him was that he spent a lot of time actually studying and practicing how to *REST* while hanging without draining the muscles used in a pull-up. He came to this by asking trainers about the muscles used in pull-ups and experimenting with bracing his weight using *other* muscles while he would hang. He would also do really interesting sets and reps, as I described above, with and without extra weight (weight belt with a rope and a dangling weight plate).
What I really earned from this is that the MOST IMPORTANT THING is to just KEEP WORKING, LEARNING, EXPERIMENTING and TWEAKING IT!
Example: for my push-ups, the weak point wasn’t my chest, it was my triceps ~ in sit-ups it was my hip-flexors… and I worked on those aspects IN ADDITION to my regular workout until I had maxed both events. After a regular workout, I would do about 100 knee push-ups and 100 of what I call “top half sit-ups” (just doing the top portion of the sit-ups, really squeezing my chest to my legs). That way I forced my triceps and hip-flexors to adapt and build their endurance.
I’m betting your weakness is mostly in your biceps, not your back so much. If so, start working your guns now! Losing any extra weight will help a lot too.
And once maxed, it’s easier to KEEP the max fitness level than it was to achieve it. Once I had my running down to the time splits I wanted, I only had to run ONCE A WEEK, at HALF THE DISTANCE, as long as I really worked hard in my training sessions. As I said, once you’re there, it’s easier to stay there.
I highly recommend picking up books on body-weight physical conditioning. Start with e-Books or paperback workout manuals and don’t waste any money you don’t have to, it’s almost all out there for free.* I’ve combined parts of workouts from Matt Furey’s “Combat Conditioning” workouts with stuff I’ve gleaned from Army SF, Navy Seals and other workout nuts I’ve met over the years.
*(I’m not advocating stealing anything, as I ALWAYS pay for solid material. If you know how to use torrents, search for a bundled set of military training manuals, it has some great material in it on workouts. Or, do this google search “body weight exercise torrent” and look at the third link down. If you like what you find, BUY IT!)
Just don’t take ANY person’s word as LAW, they may each have something unique to offer (some of it may just work better than others). Once you’re maxed, your attention will naturally turn to other things ~ like the above mentioned Marine wanting to get the record and researching methods to make it happen. I personally workout for a more general all-around strength, mostly for Jujitsu and Army Combatives training, and don’t stress push-ups and sit-ups any more than I have to.
Hope this helps and good fortune to you!
April 19th, 2007 at 12:36 amrummy47, I was just like you, went to college at Eastern Ill Univ and dropped out after two years, and was dared by a friend to join the Corps. He was a liberal pussy who thought that the military was for losers. I grew up in the conservative bastion of Naperville IL. An affluent suburb where parents who served in the military made sure their kids would not have to. I joined in 1987, Gulf War Vet, and was Honorably Discharged in 1992. MOS 8541, as well as 0311, and 0341. The United States Marine Corps taught me honor, duty to country,courage, commitment, respect, etc. The greatest experience of my life… Some people don’t get IT! They will never know…
Godspeed
Semper FI
ED
April 20th, 2007 at 4:28 am