BREAKING: Marine Officer In Ramadi Demands A Halt To “Irresponsibly Using This War And The Troops For Political Gain”
This email was received just moments ago.
1stLt Matthew McGirr USMC wrote:
Pat, I met you back in February 2004 at the Government Center in Ar Ramadi, Iraq
as a platoon commander with Golf 2/5. I just read your article in Maxim and the email from the
1/6 Cpl which I found on the Drudgereport. That Cpl is correct in his assessment. I am also back in Ar
Ramadi, and I have a basis for a comparison of the current situation based on
my experiences in this town two years ago as well as today, April 24, 2007. As
you know this war torn city was once the worst city in Iraq. Today, the
citizens of this city are taking a stand against those extremists and foreign
fighters who are focused only on destroying any chance at a secure and stable
future. Those Iraqis who once fought against us are now joining the ranks of
the Iraqi Police forces. They are taking up arms against the foreign fighters.
They are cleaning up their streets and making an attempt at forming a structured
government. They have come to see us as facilitators of peace and allies in the
defense of their streets. Because of this they have become targets for the
insurgents, yet they continue to show resolve in the face of terrorism. We are
gaining ground. This city is undergoing a sea change. To pull stakes now will
cause this city, the Al Anbar Province, and all of Iraq to fall into the hands
of thugs and terrorists. We will lose the nascent but growing faith of the
Iraqi people, and all of our spent efforts and lost lives and invested treasure
will be for nothing. Their courage will be for nothing.
We are reaching a tipping point in this fight. We have finally learned this
culture. We have finally begun to commit the necessary forces. We have truly
learned to fight a counter-insurgency. Very real gains are being made despite
claims from our Congress that we have already lost. A counter-insurgency battle
is not one of quickly attained and easily recognizeable benchmarks. It is not
won in a year or four. It takes time, resolve, and a willingness to use what we
have learned from past mistakes and expectations. From firsthand experience I
can tell you, this “Surge” is working. We need to continue to support these
people and give them a fighting chance at creating a nation on their own terms.
To echo the sentiments of my fellow Marine in 1/6, the reality of what is
happening on the ground in places like Ramadi is not being reported to the
American public. The pundits and politicians on both sides do not fully grasp
the conditions on the ground here. They are arrogantly and irresponsibly using
this war and the troops who fight in it for political gain and election
currency. They manipulate the truth or do not care enough to seek it out. At
least I know where I stand with the citizens of Ar Ramadi.
If you decide to come this way again, find 2/5. There are Marines out here who
will remember you and who will give you their own opinions. I do not speak for
them, but I know that they recognize the change in this place.
Semper Fi,
Matt
Be respectful of others and their opinions. Inflammatory remarks and inane leftist drivel will be deleted. It ain’t about free speech, remember you’re in a private domain. My website, my prerogative.
If you can't handle using your real email address, don't bother posting a comment.
Greetings:
So, ah, how do we get these people (call ‘em officers if you want…I worked for a living) on National TV? How do we get people like this Lieutenant out and about to counter some of the crap I see day in and day out?
I say, people like this Lieutenant should be attending more Starbucks poetry reading roundtables. I say they should be speaking at more college campuses. I say, this Lieutenant and a few cleverly dispersed Rangers or SEALs in the crowd should be enough to get him heard.
God, I wish I had the experiences some of these guys had. I would be starting fights (let’s face it…having straws thrown at me? Come on…) in Starbucks all over this land.
SAW my Lord? SAW and a belt?
M203 my Lord? Beehive or HE?
Pass the K-bar, my Lord…pass it hilt first!
Pass the new Hummer, my Lord…but pass it fast!
Just a little cum-buy-yah to be song while holding a lit stick of C-4 in a Starbucks!
Tim Roesch
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:40 pmCommand Private Major
I tell you 1stLt McGirr and Cpl Rock hit the nail on the head. Pat, keep up the great work!
Semper Fi,
John O’Keeffe
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:59 pmThe most powerful thing in this email was when 1stLt Matthew McGirr USMC stated that they are finally learned the culture. No wonder that shitbag Dirty Harry is ranting.
Gods Speed Gentlemen and come home safe.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:04 pmThanks for posting these and for forwarding Cpl. Rock’s letter to Drudge.
I’m hoping that when these excellent people come home, some of them will be motivated enough to run for office and start kicking the craven demagogues out of office so we can have a united front at home. (I suggest we start with Democrat Senate Majority Leader Harry “The War is Lost” Reid and Democrat Speaker of the House, Damascus Nan).
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:04 pm[…] Pat’s site is back up and he has posted another great email from Marine 1Lt Matthew McGirr in Ramadi. That Cpl is correct in his assessment. I am also back in […]
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:17 pmI just found this page today. Does Fox NEWS know about it? They should.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:37 pmAs a former Marine with Weapons CO 1/1, I’m proud of the job our young guys are doing in Iraq and Afganastan.
Keep up the great work.
Thanks for the “real” American website.
Semper Fi and be safe.
Les
Back during VietNam, scumbag citizens spat on soldiers. Now eunuch dhimmicrats are spitting on soldiers!
If this insanity doesn’t explode in the dems’ faces, then only an act of God will save this country!
I got no truck with anybody for their political views, but you NEVER drag the troops into it! Harry Reid and Comrade Pelosi are embarrassments to the very democratic process!
If we bring our troops home prematurely, I can only hope that they wage war on the 5th columnists in the media and in the Democratic party.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:01 pmHey Lt., Cpl., and Pat;
Thanks for saying what I’ve been thinking for so long. I did two tours in Iraq with 1st CEB, 1MarDiv and now I’m doing another (intellectual) combat tour in the heart of darkness called Seattle, WA. Nearly all the college kids up here are anti american, bush hating, pacifist hippies. It might be more dangerous for me to be here than it ever was in Haditha, Hit, or Al Qaim. My duties while in Iraq allowed me to get up close and personal with a large number of ICDC (now IA) and IP’s and these guys are true believers. Many of my Iraqi friends payed the ultimate price for believing that democracy could take hold in their land. Not to mention my fellow Marines and close friends who lost their lives in this noble endeavor. When I hear these politicians play these games with their lives and memories I get more than angry, I call it a righteous indignation.
Ignore the MSM, Marines, fight bravely from the front lines and know you have Marines and soldiers, and sailors fighting the battle on the homefront. Semper Fi, and I hope to once again join you on a battlefield soon.
S/F
Sgt. D
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:10 pmHey guys, contact every Republican in your state, regardless of whether or not your a constituent and request for them to ask for Rieds resignation as the Senate Majority Leader.
The guy isn’t worthy or capable of being in the position.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:29 pmPat, LT and Cpl.Rock,
Many years ago if we had people in our corner like you guys, Michael Yon and others….I and so many of my comrades in arms would not have been cursed and spat upon as we walked through Penn Station in 1968!
I’m a PROUD Two-Blue-Star father and I’ll be damned, I swear to God that no person (including Harry Reid) will get away with that crap in my presence that I had to put up with so long ago. So help me!
Be safe….please.
lib_NOT
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:37 pmThank G-d! The site’s back up!
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:51 pmWhat a powerful email. Thank you Pat for sharing.
It’s time for our Commander and Chief and his military to take this war back from the MSM and the political hacks in DC.
Politicizing this war and aiding the enemy for political gain is treasonous. I, for one, am sick of these actions.
I’ve emailed this website to all my friends and family who feel as I do. Keep up the good work.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:37 pmJust found this website through Drudge. Just became a favorite.
As far as Harry Reid, what a scumbag. I would piss on him in a heartbeat.
As for all you guys (and gals) serving over there, I salute you. You folks make me proud to be an American.
April 23rd, 2007 at 8:45 pmhey Pat…thanks for the site. My son is a 1 LT. platoon leader with the 82nd AIR and his reports to me from inside Baghdad (al Kazimiyah neighborhood) is that the tide is turning.Every day more and more Sunni and Shia are calling in to the hot lines and reporting hideouts,suspicious activities etc. VOA News just had an article about his unit and thier work.Don’t think it is’nt still very volatile, however it is getting better. I tell ya there is’nt anything more that I would want than to have my boy here with me this summer, but he knows that the mission needs to be completed. Sleep well tonite ,America, the 82nd Airborne is standing gaurd.
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:02 pmExcellent commentary from the only faction that really counts … that of the american servicemember! Each and every one of you should be proud of the job that you have done in this war on terror. Democracy is something that each of you have made a personal contribution towards and democracy is somewhat of a foreign concept to the namesake “Democratic Party”. Maybe they should all take a field trip to Ramadi and hear for themselves what hope means to people who never had a voice to be heard or to know that if their voice was ever heard that it might possibly make a difference. The difference in Ramadi you have been privileged to witness for yourself. I myself, am the proud parent of two soldiers, my son and daughter-in-law, both of whom served in Ramadi. Rest assured that there are many americans who truly believe that this war is being won by brave, courageous, unselfish, and totally dedicated soldiers. Again, these words are associated with character and thus a totally misunderstood concept by the democratic party who obviously need a remedial course in vocabulary. They don’t now and never will have the best interest of the american people at heart. Keep in mind that the same political party that want’s to cut and run is the same political party that saw fit to vandalize the White House before it left office and strip Air Force One of any object that wasn’t nailed down. Keep up the good work! You will all remain in my thoughts and prayers. You are part of a legacy of good that will remain forever.
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:26 pmCan’t say I’m surprised that the surge is working, and that the Iraqis are fed up with the foreign interlopers that claim to be fighting for them on behalf of Allah. But, they see the reality, Al-Qaeda doesn’t have their best interests at heart, and they could care less if they kill Sunnis or Shiites. Every human being wants to make their lives better for their children, despite what the goddam libs say, the Iraqis have their greatest opportunity with our help. The more terrorists we kill over there, the better. Victory is our only option, and I’ll be damned if I let the greatest nation of all time be hijacked by far-left kooks. They have no idea how to protect us.
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:49 pmThanks for the positive feedback. the MSM is doing their darndest to keep us depressed and feeling hopeless.
By the way, are there still embedded journalists with our soldiers?
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:14 pmDon’t let Dirty Harry and Bela Pelosi get to you. Walter Cronkite surrendered on the CBS Evening news when RVN was attacked Tet ‘68. A lot of us remember that the United States didn’t lose the war, the Military didn’t lose the war, the democrats handed over the RVN in ‘75. We got older and we still have our minds. They turned our 55,000 into an all for naught, we’ll figure out something to make sure they don’t do it to you.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:25 pmThere is a political game being played. It is a deadly game that cannot be allowed. It is horrible. When I get home from work at night I go to my page at the above website and for 6 or more hours I do what I can to get people at this crazy place to see what is really going on just about every day. I am hated for the most part for it. I post real stories where they have propaganda and anti-American garbage (It is a site where “members” control the “news” and not the site owners.) There are groups there that have all propaganda in them and people are believing it. I did not know when I joined there how hateful these people can be for their own people and country. It is a global site as well so there is quite a bit there. I have gotten into it with some people I work with who believe all the lies being saturated to the American public as “the truth”. It is the least I can do when you all are fighting the terrorists for us. I do my best to fight Moonbats. I only have a small circle of friends like me there who believe as I do. I stopped reading newspapers long ago. I started reading military blogs to find out what was really going on. Tonight I saw a link from Drudge to this site. I am so glad I did. I watched all the videos here and I want you to know that there are many people who do respect and honor you. They just do not know what is really going on. I want something done about Harry Reid. I still cannot believe anyone could have said what he did while all of you are still fighting for us. Not to mention the wounded, the fallen, and their loved ones, all of our veterans had to hear the statements he made - the pain he has caused blows my mind. You all won the war a long time ago. Harry Reid and those like him are too stupid to know it. I pray for all of you every day. May God bless and protect you. Love to you all. I thank you for your service. There are no words to express the sadness of us in the U.S. for what you have endured in the name of politics.
April 23rd, 2007 at 10:28 pmThe same leftist clique here in the Netherlands is working over hours war bashing (with our troops in Afghanisthan) and America bashing. Those who do call things for what they are, find themselves intimidated by the leftist media, journaille and politicians,pestered out of the country or even assasinated.I must purge the national news broadcasts - which to many here are the undivided truth - from leftist truth twisting of what is really happening. That is why this site is like a breath of fresh air to me Pat, with such good news from 1stLt Matthew McGirr.
All you Marines and service men and -women, YOU HAVE MY RESPECT for your outstanding work in Iraq. May this reversal which Lt McGirr is reporting about, eventually result in some measure of a decent life for the Iraqies.
Sjaan MarineMom.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:18 pmSandy K and Sjaan Marine Mom. I’ve only had a computer for a year and ventured into some blog sites thinking I could explain things to them. It got so bad that I started keeping windex and a roll of paper towel by the computer so that I could readily clean the venom that would ooze from the monitor. Their responses had a common theme. They’d start with Adam and Eve, run through every negetive event from every civilization since, blaming it all on the US and then finish with, ‘at 8pm this evening at a state dinner Bush is going to lie’. You only waste your time, they are consumed with hate. I’ve learned to stay away from them and not frustrate myself. Marine Mom, you mentioned Drudge, another decent one is www.littlegreenfootballs.com. The registration window is rarely opened but you can learn a lot from the people that post given all the links they provide. You can compile a nice list of web and blog sites to add to your list. Don’t beat yourself up, life is too short, go where you’re wanted.
April 24th, 2007 at 12:10 amTry to get on Coast to Coast AM if you can. They have a nightly audience of ten million. A huge influencial and across-the-board listenership. Liberals, conservatives and everything in between. Their format is usually the paranormal, but the war and its causes, actions and ramifications is always on the minds of the hosts and guests as well as the callers. Be a guest, get on and tell the story, the story that needs to be told: the fabrication by major news outlets in their reporting of the war is right up C2C’s alley.
Both hosts, Art Bell and George Noory are former service members, USAF and USN respectively. The best part is, you won’t be rushed along like you were on Fox. Fox did a good thing in having you on, but clearly did not give you the time necessary to tell your story. Plus Colmes kept interrupting you! Hannity wasn’t too bad, but he wouldn’t let you talk either.
April 24th, 2007 at 12:17 amC2C will give you tons of time to talk. Go for it.
humbleradio, yea, I do watch Hannity&Colmes most everyday. I hope I’m watching the night Oliver North is on and he turns to Colmes and beyatch slaps him.
Mr. Dollard, this is my fourth visit to this site and I finally read about you and saw the picture of the vehicle about five minutes ago. Dam.
April 24th, 2007 at 12:29 amMr. Dollard,
I just found this website off of Drudge.
I pray that this website and its values becomes a lightning rod to fight the elite, liberal spew that is coming from the general media outlets in this country. Keep up the good work!
This citizen supports you and the president 100%
I will be checking back regularly.
Respectfully,
Mike Swann
April 24th, 2007 at 12:42 amLong Beach, CA.
Pat
-Great site, I just found it on Drudge.
And Matt, thanks a lot for that report. Things like these really do matter, even though they have yet to hit the mainstream media (no coincidence that they don’t, either).
Cheers,
April 24th, 2007 at 2:06 amTheo.
Thanks for all you and your comrads do for us AMERICANS,sorry for the likes of harry reid.How can anyone with honor be a part of the democrat party?????? Take care,Earl
April 24th, 2007 at 2:22 amBreaking Email To Pat Dollard | Young Americans…
You won’t find testimonials like these in the MSM, you need to hear it straight from the soldiers which is what you get when you visit Pat Dollard’s blog….
April 24th, 2007 at 3:37 amOutstanding letters, Pat. This poolee is fucking MOTIVATED!
If anybody who follows the news seriously hadn’t heard of your project before, they have now.
How about we call Hairy Reed “Senator Douchebag” from now on? I think it’s a little catchier than “that douche Harry Reid.”
Only fourteen more days still San Diego, baby! It will be the best 12 week vacation of my fuckin’ life! OOH-RAH!
April 24th, 2007 at 6:10 amIt’s easy enough to see why Dingy Harry and Nancy Shithead want so desparately for the troops to pull out by October–they know how things are going there and they are invested so deeply in defeat that they can’t stand this kind of good news.
April 24th, 2007 at 6:15 amGet this information on the O’Reilly show or the Limbaugh show. People need to hear what these heroes are saying.
As I hope we all learned from Hygiene Class in high school, PULLING OUT PREMATURELY DOESN’T WORK.
April 24th, 2007 at 6:32 amKeep posting. None of the pundits, professors, or politicians have any idea what’s happening on the ground. I’m glad to see that you realize the power the internet gives you.
A message to your fellow soldiers if you care to deliver it:
Don’t lose faith in the American people; they haven’t lost faith in you. They just don’t know the truth. Ignorance may be leading to frustration, but they’re still looking for a reason to believe. We just have to give them one. Tell them your stories. Use your limited internet access. Ask friends and loved ones at home to deliver your message. If the mainstream media won’t do its job, then we’ll have to do it through a grassroots campaign. But we’ll do it nonetheless.
April 24th, 2007 at 6:35 amwhy is everything so divisive?
April 24th, 2007 at 6:41 amTo all those that protect our country and are sacrificing their time and lives please know that the rantings of those idiots in Washington are not the sentiments of the majority of America. The liberals are the only ones given time on the air to spout their treasonist beliefs. Once again THANK YOU to all!
April 24th, 2007 at 6:42 amI hope I do not hear one of my leftist in laws that I will be around this weekend mention that they support the troops and not the mission, because I will have a few in me and I may not respond with words.
To help reduce the chances of violence I am printing these letters to start a discussion, to see their reaction to them and then tear them apart verbally.
Never let anyone state that bullshit line of supporting the troops and not the mission go unchallenged.
Drive On,
Steve
PS Pat / Chad, has the site problem been purely bandwidth issues or did you get a cyber attack trying to shut you down?
Good to see the hits.
April 24th, 2007 at 8:21 amWe need to support our troops. In WWII we had traitorous Americans like Tokyo Rose who went to Japan to propagandize and try to sap the moral of our troops. Today they are in the media and Congress and spread their propaganda and defeatism at home. Enough of this!
If we lose this fight there will be deadly consequences to pay. They tried to kill 25,000 Americans in a single day last time and succeeded in killing 3,000. Next time it will be worse. It’s time more people spoke out and the leadership got some backbone. We can’t abandon a land like Iraq to the terrorists, they would then have a $100B/yr then in oil revenue to finance their mass murder.
Thanks to all of you soldiers for your sacrifice. Some of us believe in you and what you are doing. I believe the reason America has not had a serious attack in the last six years is that they are waiting for these defeatist bastards to succeed before they launch another big operation. You are protecting us directly in my opinion, not just driving the terrorists from Iraq. As long as there are US citizens NOT willing to lie down and accept defeat, there is still hope.
Roger Ogden
April 24th, 2007 at 8:25 amSan Diego
How wonderfully refreshing to read.
I am just sick to death of the America bashing that is
everywhere in the media.
The majority of Americans are proud of and support our country and the military men and women that protect us. It is a shame that we cannot see it expressed in the nightly news and in newspapers & newsrags in blaring headlines. The war would have been over long ago.
Keep up the good work.
Debra from Arkansas
April 24th, 2007 at 8:41 amPat, thanks for performing a public service in your posting of all these stories. You were linked to Drudge yesterday, which can only help get the info out. “Hang tough” to the Marines, soldiers and sailors–there are people out here who support you,respect you and think the world of you 110%, and they are legion.
April 24th, 2007 at 8:42 amIt’s greatly appreciated to have someone “on-site” help defend the cause. The media ‘oversights’ in reporting the truth have hoodwinked a lot of the American people. Hopefully this brave response will get enough headlines to wake the people up. It’s a shame that in addition to their military duties we need these brave men and women to fight the political wars back home. We need a good dose of truth and common sense. God bless you for speaking out. We need a lot of help to get the insurgents out of congress!
April 24th, 2007 at 8:46 amThank you for this article. MOST reasonable, American loving Americans realize the left slant of the media, but it’s nice to be able to read this email from a person who knows. We get bombarded with lies and liberal political vomit 24/7. It is overwhelming, and easy to believe the public is falling for it. I cannot imagine what a downer it is for our fine military people, thinking and realizing there are people like Harry Reid who call themselves Americans. HE’s a traitor, as is anyone who agrees and supports him. We are not all like that!
God bless our military, and my prayers go out to you and your families for your safe keeping and safe return home. In the meantime, thank you for keeping ME safe. I do appreciate it.
April 24th, 2007 at 9:15 amOoo-rah, 1st Lt. McGirr!
April 24th, 2007 at 9:17 am“why is everything so divisive?”
Because it makes for good ratings. The mass media sucks the rotting balls of Saddam Hussein.
April 24th, 2007 at 9:39 amI just sent Nancy Pelosi the email from Lt. McGirr along with a few comments about supporting our troops (or lack there of) and not making this so political.. If you feeling like doing the same here is the link http://www.speaker.gov/contact/
April 24th, 2007 at 10:18 amI am sure she would welcome the emails.
@john:
Don’t be surprised if you get an email back claiming that unless you are part of her constituency, then don’t bother. (Paraphrasing there.)
April 24th, 2007 at 10:50 amIacobus, once e-mailed the speakerette, got this e-mail address. Didn’t get it kicked back so it must work.
April 24th, 2007 at 11:51 amThere ought to be one day-just one-when there’s an open season on Senators. Will Rogers
April 24th, 2007 at 12:29 pmI read both this post and the post from Cpl Rock. Left tears in my eyes. Both you and your fellow Marines are in my prayers. Words will never ever be able to express how proud I am of the men and women serving our country.
April 24th, 2007 at 1:35 pmGod bless you, guide you, strengthen you and cover you until the job is done and you all come home.
We need to have a big pro-war march! We could call it the:
“Rock” the Capital Freedom March
Seriously we all need to get out there and have a march with such overwhelming numbers that these libs stfu and let us win the war! It’s hard to go to Washington, but what if we marched on every State Capital and as many as possible marched on D.C.?
What if hundreds of thousands of us got together and did this?
What if every conservative radio personality, and every blogger, Rush Limbaugh, and Michael Medved and Pat Dollard and Michael Yon and every republican congressman and senator backed it and we made our voices heard? Don’t conservatives have any power anymore in this country? Can’t we all band together and get out on the streets?
Maybe we could do it on June 6? (D-Day) to mark the beginning of the end for the insurgents in Iraq (just like D_Day was the beginning of the end for the Nazis) because we are not going to lie down like europe and get trampled, we are going to fight to the end!
If you are interested in this idea I am setting up a mailing list. Email me at
Althought Making it a VJ day march might be more realistic (aug 15)
April 24th, 2007 at 1:37 pmI hope you guys get to stay there as long as you want. The PSA contracts are for 20/30 years and so we will need solders there at least that long. Exxonmobil thanks you.
April 24th, 2007 at 1:53 pmGee, that’s not nearly as long as we’ve been in Germany or Japan … and probably not as long as we’ll STILL be in Bosnia, or whatever the hell they’re calling it these days.
April 24th, 2007 at 2:41 pm“PS Pat / Chad, has the site problem been purely bandwidth issues or did you get a cyber attack trying to shut you down?”
Steve in NC,
Glad to see (well, not so much) someone else was/is having problems jumping in the pool. The last 48 hours I can only get in here via wireless laptop that’s not mine. My home computer is still on dial-up … cripes! Perhaps that’s my problem right there.
April 24th, 2007 at 2:45 pmIt’s good to be able to get back in here! I haven’t been able to get to the site since Drudge linked you up, Pat! It is amazing how much traffic you’ve been getting, and that those folks that have been visting thanks to his link are realizing that there are so many more people that support our military and are sick of the liberal facist democrats. It is hard to believe that Rummy will be heading for the big wake up in just two weeks. Dude, you are going to be so damned surprised at basic. Everyone is ready when they leave, mentally and physically, and after the first week you thing what the hell did I get myself into? At the end though, you realize how very worth it those 12 weeks are. Our militray men and women are the best in the world, our Marines the best of the best.
I got into again with the neighbor bitch that spews acid when you mention Bush , Republicans or the military to her. I will have to write FUCK YOU with Round-Up in her grass tonight….
It was good the read Cpl Rock’s email, and that from the good L-T.
Rummy, have you gotten anywhere with the contract issue? I hope you can make it work out for you. With the education you have, I would hope you might consider OCS down the road. Even having been strictly enlisted for my 12 years, I really have been tempted to go back as a butterbar, just to have the honor of leading some of our great young men. I have pkenty of other ideas for the young women
I spent the past little while reading all the posts that are from newbies to the sight, seeing all the words of support fo rthe troops. I hope they are able to access them over in the sand box. I also hope the media over there is getting hold of those same words so the Iraqis know the majority of America really is backing them and our troops.
I hope to be able to get back on here from work tomorrow, if not I’ll have to settle for a little time from home.
I have seen a couple others calling for boycotts of the liberal media and Hollywood elitists, And I spent a good portion of today and yesterday emailing my local fruitloop, Dennis Kucinich, plus the few Republicans I could track emails on
letting them know that the facist dems are lying, the are not getting the support of the people, they got control of the house and the senate only by bashing Bush and never saying anything about their ideas. If the American people had really known what the bastards wanted to do, the Republicans not only would still have control of Congress, they would have picked up MORE seats!
I think Pat getting his site linked by Drudge may be the tipping point for the MSM and the rest of the country, when the dust settles, we are going to start hearing of more support for the troops, and cries for the impeachemnt of traitors like Reid, Pelosi, Murtha and others.
I would really like to see how many of our Marines currently serving would disown bitches like Cindy Sheehan if she were THEIR mother. I salute her departed son, but he must be crying tears in heaven over what his mother is doing in his name, she is earning a living off of dragging his memory and honor through the liberal mud and excretia.
God bless America, our Troops and Pat Dollard!
Semper Fi
April 24th, 2007 at 4:35 pmBrad W -
re:
“I spent the past little while reading all the posts that are from newbies to the sight, seeing all the words of support fo rthe troops. I hope they are able to access them over in the sand box. I also hope the media over there is getting hold of those same words so the Iraqis know the majority of America really is backing them and our troops.”
My son in Iraq turned me on to this site last fall, so yes it is seen there.
April 24th, 2007 at 6:16 pmBrad: I’ve got my recruiter on voice record saying I wouldn’t ship without a job I wanted. I’m not worried about it anymore. I am worried that my ass isn’t getting hard enough before San Diego. MUST GET HARD… THIS IS SPARTA!!!
If I like the USMC, I’ll definitely go into OCS after my initial requirement. That’s why going infantry is so important to me–I wouldn’t want it said that I didn’t know what the grunts were going through.
April 24th, 2007 at 7:52 pmKeep up the good work you and Corps have always done. As a civilian back home I can tell you that your work is NOT being reported on a regular basis. Please tell your friends and families here state side all the progress you are doing. We need to hear this so that you will be able to do your friggin jobs.
The Democrats have just passed a bill for your re-funding but have put a withdrawl time line in it under the guise that its “The will of the American people”. I am one of millions of Americans who know that this bill will only put more names on the wall and more folded American flags in your families living rooms. Then worse of all more Iraqi streets covered with the blood of those who fought long and hard for their freedom.
I only hope and pray that your examples will rub off on people like Senator Reid, for he is the antithesis of Semper Fidelis.
May God speed in your noble work.
April 24th, 2007 at 10:09 pmRummy, glad to hear the news. The best officers I served with were the mustangs. They are the ones that know what reality is, and can motivate with leadership by example. I knew too many louies that were never retained because they were of the mind that officers were elite. That is experience from the Corps and the Army. I am glad pat got so much traffic from the Drudge link but like any house where the doors opened up, looks like we got visits from liberal rats and cockroaches. Time to call Orkin…
April 25th, 2007 at 5:07 amFUCK careerism, sir! Nothing makes me more mad than people who care more about themselves than their men.
April 25th, 2007 at 5:20 amSo this is where the lowly 30% of Bush fanatics hides! Lovely to see that all “leftist” posts will be deleted. I guess that makes it easier to delude yourselves that you have some clue about the world. Good luck getting people with more than a high school diploma to agree with you. I suppose your type would rather just hide out and pat each other on the asses instead of taking part in a REAL debate. Fine with me. I have no use for your mindless dribble anyhow.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:20 amDribble?
Apparently our self-declared highly intelligent Leftist friend Lisa is too undereducated to have ever encountered the word “drivel”. It’s different than “dribble” Lisa. Or maybe you were just trying to talk down to the underclass like your patron battleship Hillary.
That’s the thing about leftists, they presume they are smater than conservatives, so therefor their positions have to be correct. This assumption serves as their substitute for actually thinking.
And just like Lisa The Shrieking Elitist Airhead, when they actually open their mouths, we hear how stupid they really are.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:29 amThen what the bloody fuck are YOU doing here?
For the record, “Bush” is barely mentioned here. It’s the troops that are held high and supported here. You want a “debate”? Stick around and run your mouth … We’ll see who is mindless right quick.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:30 amGun Girl,
LMAO! I thought I recognized her Hillary Black-Speak …
April 25th, 2007 at 11:31 amHey Lisa,
You wanna debate? Heres a question for you: If you were commander in cheif for a day what would you do?
If you can honestly answer this then at least you are not like all the other lib cowards.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:31 amMO,
I’m very certain Lisa would
1) redistribute all of the Kerry, Kennedy, Pelosi, and Hollywood money to the poor.
2) make Global Warming the State religion
3) put to death heretics of said State religion
4) pass out a chicken a month to every family … just as Castro does
5) invite Slick Willie over for a pajama party
April 25th, 2007 at 11:37 amOh, and
6) bend over and take it from the Islamists
April 25th, 2007 at 11:39 amOh yes, “gun girl” I meant DRIBBLE.
Here is where I become amused:
You call me undereducated, but you can’t even spell “THEREFORE” properly…
That’s the thing about leftists, they presume they are smater than conservatives, so therefor their positions have to be correct. This assumption serves as their substitute for actually thinking.
I am in fact a huge supporter of our American troops. That is why I can’t stand to see them die for all the wrong reasons, and in all the wrong ways. Maybe if your Conservative leadership would think of the lives (both American and Iraqi) that are being senselessly destroyed, I would see your reason to support them. As it stands, even Hillary is too conservative for me. If I had a position of leadership today, the lives that have already been lost would be remembered fondly, despite the ridiculous way that they were killed, and not one more American soldier would be slaughtered for political reasons in the Middle East.
For people who say they support our troops, you all certainly don’t seem to mind if countless more die.
I’m nausiated that this is what you consider to be sensible.
April 25th, 2007 at 11:43 amI knew she would not respond. I just wanted to clarify the 30% approval rating a little better. The remaining 70% are not all USAhating libs. A good many of them are people like us who think Bush should’ve been tougher in this war.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:07 pmHey Lisa that banging on your trailer door is the mailman with your welfare check b#%@#. Get your talking points in order and come back for a lamb basting.
April 25th, 2007 at 12:39 pmLisa, dumbbitch, therefor is spelled “therefor”:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/therefor
The rest of your idiocy does not merit a response, but I’d really like to encourage everyone to read it, because you are a poster child for what is wrong with the left.
And the troops have a response for you liars who claim to support them but not their mission. It begins with an “F” and ends with “off”. If you supported them, then you’d support their desire to stay until Iraq is secured. You just think you know better than them, and must save them. They just want you to have a cup of “shut the F up”.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:44 pmgun girl -
The link you sent says it all. You completely misused the word… and the link you sent is the proof. Read the definition before you call me a “dumbbitch” you DUMB BITCH. (two words)
Figure it out. You are outmatched here little gun-toting chick. Luckily for you there are no intelligence tests as a prerequisite for owning that lethal weapon.
Care to go again? I’m loving it.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:55 pmLa-La-La-Lisa writes:
“That is why I can’t stand to see them die for all the wrong reasons, and in all the wrong ways.”
And when exactly are all the RIGHT reasons and RIGHT ways they should die??
As wars go, this war (Iraq) has been far less a cluster fuck than WWII ever was.
Now I am going to go down a fucking path, once again, that I hate going down with people such as you: In four years of this war we have lost roughly as many troops as we lost in the D-Day invasion, and the practice invasion prior to D-Day (See: Operation Tiger) … Why do I hate this fucking path? Because it causes me to group together the number of KIAs (as opposed to seeing each and every one of them as an individual important life) for the sake of perspective in the “debate”.
People such as you DO NOT care a lick about the troops. If you did you would HEAR THEM in this war. Cpl. Rock is not a lone wolf in his dedication to the mission and his outrage at your side’s lack of and refusal to understand the bigger picture.
So, tell us, Lisa, exactly what would you say to Cpl. Rock? Huh??
April 25th, 2007 at 2:04 pmLisa Flick and her huffington, Kos and Soros talking points are fucked. Your a fascist piece of shit.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:11 pmIt’s so fucked up that this bitch whines about leftists being deleted when the conservatives have been dealing with the issue for years.
Pound sand bed wetter.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:12 pmDear Lisa Flick:
A man of many years of wisdom once told me that help is ONLY help when you ask first!
I know you won’t understand, and also know that you will not ask for clarification because your too smart to learn anything. Even still, I will explain this simple mantra for you so you can save face!
Ask first how you can help. Go to the troops - not just 1 or 2 but enough to obtain a concensus. Then and only then can you make such outlandish claims of supporting them.
Then - if you are for real - you will be humble enough to refrain from such selfish claims while you actively support the troops.
For you however, it will take many years of reprogramming to grow enough character to become a real supporter.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:38 pmLisa -
“I am in fact a huge supporter of our American troops. That is why I can’t stand to see them die for all the wrong reasons, and in all the wrong ways.”
>So what is the proper way for a soldier to die? While in a mission assigned by their commanders, all the while wondering if the country they swore to defend has forsaken them after voting for the use of force, and has also emboldened the enemy by having leaders of their own government publicly announce that their mission is lost, and that they have failed?
This is how you and yours would have our men and women die in a way that gains your approval.
“Maybe if your Conservative leadership would think of the lives (both American and Iraqi) that are being senselessly destroyed, I would see your reason to support them.”
> To make such a claim lowers yourself to that of a petty small minded piece of opportunistic garbage. You think that they who ordered the soldiers to battle could care less about casualties. You show your lack of humanity in such a statement.
“As it stands, even Hillary is too conservative for me. If I had a position of leadership today, the lives that have already been lost would be remembered fondly,”
>What are you going to do, have a cry in?
“despite the ridiculous way that they were killed, and not one more American soldier would be slaughtered for political reasons in the Middle East.”
>Define ridiculous please. As for the reason we are at war now is because this started over 25 yrs ago, and the islamic radicals have been killing the soldiers and citizens of our country and of our allies. Diplomacy and police type responses have failed since the carter administration. After having 3000 civilians murdered in a few hours on our soil the dance was over. We are in the middle east to confront and destroy our enemies and to plant the seed of freedom in an area that desperately needs it. This is not a small or minor undertaking, the move to Iraq is big and risky and can succeed, and the Iraqi’s may come to live in a society where people that say the things in public like you do are not taken off to be tortured ad murdered.
“For people who say they support our troops, you all certainly don’t seem to mind if countless more die.”
>For such baseless attack “FUCK YOU, YOU CUNT” I have a son in theater and the mixture of pride and a quiet terror inside is a feeling you could not appreciate you shallow meatsack.
I am glad your are nauseated, enjoy your bile.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:41 pmBravo, Steve.
April 25th, 2007 at 2:59 pmOh shit you cashed that check quicker than I thought.
The troops don’t want your help or your supposed support.What part of that don’t you get through that dirty ratty head of yours?They despise you just as much as you despise them.That nausia you feel is from the bon bons your stuffing down your throat that you bought with your food stamps.
You and your kind only benefit from the hard work of others.Troops fight and die so that you have the freedom of speech.Conservatives work their asses off to support low life scum like you.See the pattern?
So go “dribble” that ass (probably chunky) of yours somewhere else.
April 25th, 2007 at 3:37 pmI looked at the stats page and it is amazing how many drive-bys we are getting here. Rush was right when he said these people drive by, shoot a few “bullets” and then drive off. I guess this is how they think the war, and any other controversy, should be handled. They drive by, shoot out a few points and when we don’t accept them immediately they say WE are the losers and then it’s on to the next stop. Good job. I guess they would also wipe with one square and since that didn’t take care of all the shit they get pissed off at their own ass for not listening.
Lisa Flick - You made more than one post so maybe you will see what the others are replying with. If not, keep on driving by as usual. No need to actually consider what we say when you want us to consider what you say.
You stated, “So this is where the lowly 30% of Bush fanatics hides!”
30%, huh? I guess you watched the evening news again so they could tell you what to think. Never mind that the poll was taken by a Democrat-based news network. Since the Democrat controlled media exists of ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, PMSNBC, Err America, PBS, etc, it is easy to see why you only believe what you hear.
“Lovely to see that all “leftist” posts will be deleted.”
I haven’t seen any posts deleted. Regardless, this is Pat’s site and he can do whatever the fuck he wants to do. He can post a picture of his “one square wipe” if he wants to. Pat, please don’t do that.
“I guess that makes it easier to delude yourselves that you have some clue about the world.”
Yea, and only watching the twenty-two minutes of the evening news controlled by the Democrats gives you a much better, more well-rounded, understanding of the world. If you really want some clue about what is happening in this world you need to understand both sides. The videos on this site will show you what is really happening, if you dare to take a look. There is a warning though, they aren’t censored and edited for your sensitive stomach so you will see and hear things disturbing to you that you will never, ever see on the MSM.
“Good luck getting people with more than a high school diploma to agree with you.”
Well, there we go. John Kerry said the same thing about our troops. I guess having a higher education makes you understand everything better about the world. Education is not indicative of intelligence. If I told you how many degrees I had and what I score on IQ tests would you believe everything I say? By your own words, people that only have a high school education come to this site. Therefore, since I have more than that, I must be really smart and understand what is going in the world. You can trust that everything I say is correct, well researched, and you won’t have to think on your own anymore.
“I suppose your type would rather just hide out and pat each other on the asses instead of taking part in a REAL debate.”
You mean like the type that are afraid to have a REAL debate with people who disagree with them, like Edwards et al refusing to go on Fox News? Keep patting your own asses.
“Fine with me. I have no use for your mindless dribble anyhow.”
Then why did you waste your time, our time, and the bandwidth to send us your highly educated words? Don’t worry about the fact that the reason you can do this freely is because the ARMED forces of the great United States of America protect your rights to do so. Do you realize they even protect your right to disagree? I am willing to bet you wouldn’t like wearing a full body covering and being subservient of all males.
You typed - “You call me undereducated, but you can’t even spell “THEREFORE” properly…” and then typed, “they are smater than conservatives, so therefore…”
“smater”? heh…
What I really want to get off my chest is this, and it is from an educated person…fuck off, you nappy headed ho.
April 25th, 2007 at 4:34 pmDear Lisa Flick, GO FUCK YOURSELF…
April 25th, 2007 at 4:41 pmlisa flick,
since you have no use for this “dribble” why did you feel the need to write on 3 separate occassions?
also no one here has higher than highschool. you should know many from this site are in the military or ere in the past, and many soldiers have very high educations especially officers. despite that, you get your info from people like michael moore?
also, you support the troops? How? because on this site you have maligned a vast majority of the troops like your boy harry reid and the btch nancy pelosi?
give me an instance where you have shown support for the troops. Bringing them home, is not support unless they leave after achieving victory , otherwise they feel their commrades died for nothing. they are trained to fight. want to support them, then support their mission, send letters of support, help out their spouses and families, volunteeer at the VA etc.
Dont insult our intelligence and then say I support you!
sav the doublespeak for the politicians like harry reid.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:11 amLisa, let me guess, the flick comes from what you have to do to the flies as they congregate around your rank person? Not surprising. FYI, I have a BS and MBA, am responsible ofr over $7 Billion in loans and relationships. Yes, there are typos from some posters, usually because we get so irate over posts from out of touch with reality people like yourself.
A little education on polls. They are run at the request of individuals and groups that pay for the results. Those results are most often relayed to the pollsters up front. Polling is another form of marketing, which requires the use of demographics. Like in marketing, you are selling a certain product or idea, and you want to market that product or idea where you will get the most favorable results.
Using demographics, pollsters will target specific markets wehre they will get the most favorable results. If you “randomly” select your target audience in a geographic area that you know has a high representation of liberals, antiwar people, or what have you, and sample less than 1,000 people, of course those requested results will “magically” appear.
Most Conservatives and Republicans intuitively know this and we are able to ignore the fecal matter gobbled up by the liberals. Do you gargle after swallowing that crap?
Your comments about Bush’s 30% approval ranking play right into the mind set of the MSM. You have proven that you need your thoughts spoon fed to you by the liberal press, an original thought and cold glass of water might kill you…Do you realize that one of the greatest DEMOCRATIC presidents ever had an even lower rating? If you are so smart, you can even tell us who that was, and what war he was the CIC for.
Another thing, I think the only reason you are familiar with the word “dribble” is because of what runs down your thighs and chin after you collect those $20.00 bills for performing the only work you are used to performing…
Semper Fi baby,
April 26th, 2007 at 6:32 am“Another thing, I think the only reason you are familiar with the word “dribble” is because of what runs down your thighs and chin after you collect those $20.00 bills for performing the only work you are used to performing…”
Oooo! Harsh, Brad, very harsh!
April 26th, 2007 at 6:38 amLiberal facists can only realize you are addressing them when confronted with a 2by4 upside the head.
April 26th, 2007 at 6:45 amI’m a trailer trash wellfare whore. That’s okay, I’d side with a “nappy headed ho” over you pieces of donkey shit any day.
I guess you like to pretend your so big and tough… when actually you are the weak link in this debate. I think it is hilarious. I’m going to continue to monitor this site, and laugh at the half-witted comments about me, because let’s face it, the world needs more laughter. Yes, that’s it… I’m laughing my sexy LIB ass off at all of you.
April 26th, 2007 at 8:13 amOne of the deepest hurts in my life came in 1975 when, after more then 10 years of combat, the US pulled out of Vietnam.
Liberals are using Iraq/Afghanistan conflict as vote getters under the guise that the US involvement is misguided policy. They want to sway the vote.
I personally support the VOTERS as well as our MILITARY. But, who will I speak to if/when the currect policy is negated and the US withdraws prematurily.
Charles M. Ervin
April 26th, 2007 at 8:28 amGolf Co, 2ndBtn5thMarDiv
Hue City 31Jan68 - 10Mar68
Vietnam 11Nov67 - 21Nov68
Lisa, I do not have to pretend to be tough. I have been there, done that. I’ve been shot, stabbed, electrocuted, poisoned, had a stupid accident with a chain saw. None of that has stopped me. Marines still carry on when there is still breath. I notice that you have reduced your replies to the same level of the MSM and other liberals. Ignore any real substantive facts and focus on the personal jibes since that is the only arena you have real experience. Just like the laughs, if you ignore it, it doesn’t exist, right? And most likely, if you had the cahnce to meet any of us, and find out who we are, your fist action (well, after messing yourself) would be to get an attorney to sue us for slander, libel or just plain hurting your feelings, because you can’t take care of yourself.
That is about as respectable as the liberal facists in Washington going after Cheney, and hiring all the attorneys to investigate and sub poena everyone they can think of. Of course this is all at taxpayer expense, so why would the libs care. Just more money out of our pockets, but hey, let’s make sure Republicans get nailed for wasting money.
And if your ass is lib like the rest of you, there is nothing sexy about it, except perhaps for necrophiles…
April 26th, 2007 at 8:40 amI might actually be with upstanding points.
Go ahead, and keep eting to fit your needs. I’m having so much piss.
You like Bush loving.
REALLY feel the dead soldiers.
I feel you.
Don’t worry, you haven’t heard the last from me.
April 26th, 2007 at 9:32 ambitch i am the dead soldiers
April 26th, 2007 at 9:49 am@lisa
whatever floats yer boat. nice that all those marines, soldiers, sailors, and airmen died to protect your freedom to be a complete ass. and even if you think that’s not what they died for, and instead think they really died for oil, big business, or some other crap, just know that they died thinking they were dying for you. dontcha feel even the littlest bit of sorrow and pride about that?!?
April 26th, 2007 at 9:58 am81Mike Mike, She ain’t worth it. she can take criticism, I’ll giver her that, must be a lib that is used to confronting those of us who really work, has a thick skin. The fact that her last post was pointless proves my earlier statement. so she’ll be back, what’s another roach…
April 26th, 2007 at 10:00 amHaving fun deleting all my posts?
I love knowing I’ve gotten to you.
April 26th, 2007 at 10:12 amI’ll tell you one thing.If the troops have the rug pulled out from under them and they bring them home early.I’m not going to sit on my ass like the civies in the Vietnam era.They will get a huge welcome home and if anyone in any way disrespects one of them in my presence I will fuckin rip your stinkin throat out.
April 26th, 2007 at 10:37 amLisa is not an American. In fact, I am pretty sure she is a Brit or at least lives there. Since she is not an American she has no voice in what America does. There is no point feeding her with replies as that is all she wants, attention.
Pat, could this be the first one you ban? I vote for that.
April 26th, 2007 at 10:58 amSoldiers don’t wage wars.
April 26th, 2007 at 10:59 amSoldiers die in wars.
I vote against the ban. Then again this is Pat’s site, so this is not up to a vote, he reigns supreme here and does a great job!
Even though her posts are of little or no use, it provides the rest of us what we need, the insight into the warped mind of a lib, and ammunition to use against them, as their idiotic rants prove their treachery. We need the occasional dose of venom so we do not lose sight of what we are fighting here at home to protect the backs of out troops over there.
April 26th, 2007 at 11:25 amSee, even Brad W agrees that my opinions here are important to your own efforts!
If you believe so strongly that you are right, you should have no problem with hearing my perspective.
April 26th, 2007 at 11:28 amBrad - I agree. I am just referring to the posts that are repetitive where they state the same things over and over. We know they are losers, so why waste the bandwidth on someone like that?
April 26th, 2007 at 11:41 amWould it be more insulting to call her/it a “bloody wanker”?
April 26th, 2007 at 12:33 pmOh my Great Satan!
I just figured out who “Lisa” is! Her last haiku post just gave her away! It’s Rosie O.!!!!! Must’ve locked herself out of her own blob and wandered in here, drooling and pissing herself.
Rosie, pop your pills, hun, and grab some carpet …
April 26th, 2007 at 12:40 pmblob … LMFAO!!! (classic Freudian typo slip
)
blog
April 26th, 2007 at 12:43 pmLisa Flick - as a moderator for this website… i want you to know that you have truly gotten to me. deep down where it really counts. i can no longer find it in me to delete your delusional comments. please comment at will, and spread the light of your gospel upon us all so that we may find enlightenment.
April 26th, 2007 at 2:46 pmChad - Good reply. They can’t offer facts so that should shut her up pretty quick.
April 26th, 2007 at 3:34 pmOur troops know better than any politician or the idiot masses they represent. Our guys who have been in Iraq knocking off Iraqis are in a much better position to know how to settle this thing. Screw the politicians - including Iraqi ones. Corporal Rock for Secty of State anyone?
April 26th, 2007 at 3:53 pmChad,
I agree.
At some point even the village idiot becomes entertaining.
April 26th, 2007 at 4:10 pmIf you truly will post this, Chad, and leave it unaltered, I am grateful for the opportunity to engage in an intelligent conversation on this issue we all feel so passionately about. I do not feel I have the ONLY good intentioned perspective. In fact I believe that many of the responses here have reflected valid opinions, even the ones I disagree strongly with. I certainly belive that all of you have the right to say whatever you wish. As some of you stated, that is one of the many freedoms our servicemen and women fight so strongly for.
Despite what all has been said, I honestly do support the troops. I believe strongly in their devotion and sacrifices whether they agree or disagree with my opinions, both on this site, and in the world in general. I do believe that there are certain things that are worth dying or killing for, I just do not believe that this war was waged for the right reasons, nor that it was waged honestly, nor do I believe it has been properly handled by those making the decisions (ie. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.). I do not think that the current administration supports the troops themselves nearly enough given the sacrifices they have been forced to endure. I think that there is still a way to believe in and support the brave men and women fighting, despite an objection to them being there, let alone dying there. I hope that at least some of you can see that difference.
I apologize for the generalizations I have made about this website, but must admit that some of the comments I read before posting angered me. As someone who believes that these deaths of our troops (and also many innocent Iraqi citizens) are completely unnecessary, I feel I would be a traitor to what those men and women stand and fight for if I didn’t say I think their deaths should stop now.
Since many of my previous posts have been altered or deleted, I felt the need to set the record straight. I am a very proud American citizen. I love my country and all that it stands for. I support the need for a strong and well-funded military, and the need for unconditional support for the men and women who put their lives on the line to protect our freedoms. I simply do not always agree with individual leaders and their choices.
I realize that many of you will discount what I have said as “Lib Garbage”, think that I am a “trailer trash wellfare whore”, rather than the upstanding American citizen, proud voter, taxpayer, and successful business owner that I am. I realize that many of you will still think me a traitor to my country. On the contrary… to me it is this country’s freedoms that not only allow, but encourage us to question our leaders, their decisions, and their methods. It is a right I am very grateful to have, and owe a never-ending debt to all of you currently serving and all those who’ve served in the past, most certainly those who lost their lives to protect these rights.
To all of you who serve our great country, and to all who have a loved one serving or lost to this effort, I give you my extreme gratitude for your sacrifice.
I hope that in some way, some of you can see that although we disagree about many many things, we all do love this country, our troops, and our freedoms, and are eternally lucky to have them.
Sincerely,
April 26th, 2007 at 4:11 pmLisa Flick
Proud American
What Kind of a Man Would Do This?
Jack Tilley, a Sergeant Major of the Army, was with a
group of people who recently were visiting wounded
soldiers at Walter Reed Medical Center in Washington,
DC.
He saw a Special Forces soldier who had lost his right
hand and suffered severe wounds of his face and side
of his body. Sgt. Tilley wanted to honor him and show
him respect without offending, but what can you say or
do in such a situation that will encourage and uplift?
How do you shake the right hand of a soldier who has
none?
He decided to act as though the hand was not missing
and gripped the soldier’s wrist while speaking words
of comfort and encouragement to him.
However, a few days later, under similar
circumstances, there was another man who knew exactly
what to do. This man reverently took the soldier’s
stump of a hand in both of his hands, bowed at the
bedside, and prayed for him.
When he finished the prayer he stood up, bent over the
soldier, kissed him on the head, and told him that he
loved him.
Later, Sgt. Tilley heard and was was awed by the
powerful expression of love for one of our wounded
heroes! “What a beautiful Christ-like example!” he
thought, moved to tears.
What kind of a man would do such a thing?
It was the wounded man’s Commander-In-Chief,
George W. Bush,
President of the United States.
This account was told by Sergeant Major Jack Tilley at
a Soldiers’ Breakfast at Red Stone Arsenal, AL, and
recorded by chaplain James Henderson, who was
stationed there.
Pass it on…. the PRESS WON’T!
Yepper sounds like a man who doesn’t care about the troops.I wonder if Barack “Hussein” Bin Laden or Hillary Rotten Ham Clit-on would of done the same?I’m pretty fuckin sure not.
April 26th, 2007 at 6:00 pmLisa,
Fair enough. As drive-by libs go, you’ve been one of the more “intelligent” and articulate, using caps and punctuation and complete thoughts and sentences.
What I feel you are very mistaken about with those of us on the side opposite of yours in this war is
1)that we feel cheaply about the lives of our service men and women … that they are “expendable” and “replaceable” to us like ammo
2) that we don’t realize this battle in the larger war is hard and long and sad and bloody … that we think of it as some sort of “game”
3) and that you believe the only time we should ever go to war is when EVERYONE agrees it’s time to go. EVERY war our nation has ever been involved in, right down to the Revolutionary War (hell, the French/Indian War), has had opposition from within. YOUR reasons for going to war obviously are not the same as those in charge … but guess what, they have more info on the whole picture than you do. And all this crap about faulty intel is just that … crap, being spoon-fed to the MSM masses
4) and I would wager you’re of the belief we lost the Vietnam War. Nope. We just quit … left … Contrary to what those on the left and in the media would have the “unwashed masses” suck off the spoon, the Tet was a victory for the US military … bloody as it was, we actually won that battle.
So, you don’t agree with this war. I wasn’t sold on Clinton’s Yugo/Bosnia/Kosovo war … but I didn’t carry on the way the opposition to this war is. I do complain that Clinton fought it with a fucking ten foot pole, much to the alarm and anger of the air commanders and pilots. Oh, and let’s not forget Clinton’s pussying out with the Black Hawk Down. You make little or no progress getting you point across to the enemy when you refuse to do more than lob a few lang range missiles at them, or drop bombs on their heads from too high above. A CIC who is too afraid of taking responsibility for the deaths of the men serving under him is a very weak and dangerous leader … not a leader at all, in fact. This President has and will continue to take such responsibility … make NO mistake about that. Every death and wounded man or woman under Pres. Bush’s command will always remain with him. Say what the left will about Bush, not-a-one of them could ever handle the pressure or carry the burden this much maligned man is carrying, and will continue to for the rest of his life.
April 26th, 2007 at 7:55 pmLisa,
P.S. … Not all of us here are/were military. Some of us are just very grateful civvies (some with kin or friends in theater) who have “taken up arms” for a military whose Congress is trying to bend them over and make them take a big one up the back-side, all in the name of politics. Criminal and sinful. They WILL pay … We just hope and pray we all won’t have to.
April 26th, 2007 at 8:05 pmI am a conservative who wants this war to end . I want the military handcuffs removed so we can finish the job in Iraq, and bring them home as we may need them to clean house in America. These damn politicians dont give a damn about anyone but themselves. I believe we must change the political system by eliminating retirement programs for elected officials, pay them the average wages for their districts and have them depend on social security just like all of us. Only then will we get ordinary Americans into the system and remove all these American hating traitors
April 26th, 2007 at 8:31 pmLisa - Is this the same you? If you would have come on here with that post instead of screaming like an idiot you probably wouldn’t have received the flack you did. One thing you always need to keep in mind is the people fighting for your freedom VOLUNTEERED to do so. They weren’t forced into doing this, and I think the emails Pat is posting here more than proves that.
The MSM will always show an edited version of an interview with ten soldiers, taking one sentence out of context, “yea, it sucks to be here” but they never show the whole thing. Pat does. Watch the videos, read the posts and LISTEN to them. If you really listen to someone they will tell you truth about themselves, even the politicians when they try to make some claim they have nothing to support it with.
The singular best way to stop more of our incredible troops, and us, from dying is for them to KILL more of the enemy.
April 26th, 2007 at 8:33 pmwhat is not being addressed by the lieberals in the house and senate are the consequences of withdrawal. they make these generalized claims that republicans and the administration lied to the american people to further some sort of conspiratorial interests that only they(i.e. republicans and the administration) know about. what is not being said is that it wasnt just the CIA that made the claim that saddam was supporting terrorism or furthering his research and development of wmd’s, but several other respected intelligence organizations from around the world. however the reasons for the war do not matter now. what matters are the consequences of withdrawal before the completion of the mission that so many of US, and our counterpart, patriotic Iraqis died for. the consequences of withdrawal would be to leave Iraq under the dominion of Iran and Al Qaeda, who would use the opportunity to reestablish themselves virtually unopposed anywhere they wanted to in Iraq. i did not fight in Iraq just to hand it over to another dictator and the sworn enemies of our country. innocent Iraqis will continue to die after we leave because the people killing innocent Iraqis will continue to do so until they have gained power, regardless if we are there or not. on the contrary, it is because we are there, supporting the elected Iraqi government, that those who are killing innocent Iraqis have not gained power yet, but must rely on tactics of terrorism that seek to demoralize and subdue Iraqis, as well as to garner support for an American withdrawal from the lieberal left in America. if we withdrawal before the mission is completed you will see an explosion of violence, the disintegration of the Iraqi government, and the rise to power of a completely hostile regime. everything we have sacrificed for will be for naught.
April 26th, 2007 at 8:34 pmdisgusted,
Uh huh.
“Military coup”?? - something the government hasn’t had to fear in this country for over 200 years … until now. Congress is fucking with the wrong people, mate.
April 26th, 2007 at 8:56 pmLisa, Whoa! I was blind sided by your entry, and not in a bad way. That post requires that I apologise to you for the crude slurs I made. Honest. Your first post was so like the liberal neighbor of mine that went off during this past Christmas party who ended up actually spitting on my framed (and highly prized) Honorable Discharge from the Marines. She refuses to discuss anything, only wants to denigrate the military and anything conservative or Republican. She loves to spew falsehoods about the war, military, and anything that most of us respect and honor, including yourself. so when I read the first post, I saw red, and went off, which I should not have done, so once again, I apologize.
I enjoy and we all need rational discussion of persanl differences to allow us the see things from multiple viewpoints. I would not call you a liberal, but you can protest that all you want. You may be a Democrat, Green Party member, or Libertarian, but from that last post you are no liberal. Too many liberals that we as a nation are dealing with have no respect for the military, and would like nothing better than for ours to receive any humilation possible, so as to be able to use that as justification to reduce or eliminate our Armed Forces.
If you can allow us our views, and are willing to discuss them, great. I think the majority of us that post here would agree to allow you the same courtesy. Even though I am a relative newbie to the site, I have gleaned this in the past two weeks or so. Most of the vitriolic views posted are directed at public figures, which the majority of feel are damaging to the international view of America. Dissent is a part of our culture, which over the past two centuries tens of thousands of Americans have died to preserve. However, also from our view, the MSM and many elected democrat officials refuse to have discussions regarding various points of view. They accuse others of creating falsehoods when their views are questioned, or in some cases blatantly lie. I could go on for way too long on this, so I’ll just say you most likely understand what I am saying. If the other posters disagree with me, I am sure their roasting of me will be proof.
The large majority of posters here are proud Americans. A very few are most likely part of the “I hate everything American” crowd, and would do anything they could to subvert our way of life, even though they are beneficiaries of it. Those are the people that confuse, irritate and at times really piss us off.
Some of the language tossed around here is meant as just that, but may seem really vulgar to those who do not know veterans. We tend to let the crude side out as a way of dealing with some issues. Remember, marines are supposed to be tough, so showing emotion is not usually considered manly. During my days of service, I said goodbye to too many friends and comrades. At times the only way to deal is to compartmentalise life, and the alternative at times is to go stark raving mad. None of us want to die, or kill. Especially innocents. If you haven’t been there, it may be hard to understand, and I am sure 81MM, 0311, Drillan, and some of the other regulars are really gonna bust my chops for this post, but what the hell. You gave an honest post, I can give an honest reply. For what most of us stand for, you deserve at least that.
Anyway suffice it to say we get rude, mean and ugly here, hell I was born ugly and I’ll die ugly
so i guess right now I am in good company. We will rip on each other, usually with a healthy dose of humor meant, and most times we expect the same in return. It is a good way to vent, and can be fun.
I’ll stop with the soppy comments, let ya’ll go and get my lazy dead ass back to work.
Semper Fi
April 27th, 2007 at 5:14 am“Some of the language tossed around here is meant as just that, but may seem really vulgar to those who do not know veterans. We tend to let the crude side out as a way of dealing with some issues.”
Brad W,
And as a non-vet I find the ability to, on occasion, express myself in a more … colorful manner liberating on this site.
Lisa,
P.S.2 …
5) Many, if not most, of us agree the Administration fought this war too PC for: the people of the region, the anti-war wonks here and around the world, the stupid self-serving countries that were supposed to be our allies (and who OWED us such after saving their asses in two World Wars), and last but not least for the ever conniving and traitorous MSM
April 27th, 2007 at 5:28 amDrillan, once again, a very astute and understated comment about being “colorful”
You are correct in that the Administration has tried to be too PC. Bush needs to stand up more. Rudy and Cheney are about the only two I have heard lately that tell it like it is. In politics that is.
What we tend to forget is that many many mistakes were made during WWI, WWII, and the Korean conflict. We won’t even go into Viet Nam… But that is easy to critique from an historical point of view. The fact that the internet allows us to get news instantly today makes it seem like we can all second guess those in command, but we are never privy to all the information they have. There will always be mistakes made in war, because there can never be anything perfect about war.
Regardless of your view on whether we should have ever entered Iraq, what we need is a solid front on the part of Americans and most especially our politicians to support the military. What so many of them are doing should be considered criminal. If the terrorist leaders saw no divisions amongst America’s elected officials, does anyone really think they would be working so hard to keep recruiting homicide bombers? If we were projecting a totally united front, how many others would be willing to stand against us? Do you really think Iran would pull what they have? If that little pork bellied maniac in N Korea thought we would carpet bomb all his retreats, would he pull the crap he has? It has been proven throughout history that dialogue does NOT stop those who are bent on destroying viewpoints or idiologies that are not in strict and complete agreement with theirs. The French, British, Russians, Danes, Belgians, Chinese, the list goes on and on, tried dialogue with Hitler, Mussolini but did that stop the invasions of other countries? It led to country after country being handed to them on platters, with millions of innocents paying the price, until Churchill finally persuaded the English to take a stand, and America finally joined in, after we got past the Lend/Lease facade. Even as American politicians have tried to keep us out of wars, we have been attacked, and forced to defend ourselves and in return our allies. And as WWi and WWII ended, it was after those who fought against us were soundly defeated. And then we spent literally billions of dollars rebuilding the countries, the infrastructures of those countries that attacked us first. People bitched like hell back them when we rebuilt Germany and Japan, and did not make them pay any reparations. We helped France, England, and so many others. We will do the same in Iraq. The people that are kiling Americans and Iraqis may or may not be Iraq themselves, but you can just about guarandamnty the people doing the plotting and convincing others to kill themselves are not Iraqi. They may spout Islamic views to justify what they do, but all they really want is to subjugate others to their rule.
Yes there has been fighting for centuries in the Mid East, and it will never fully go away, at least not likely in our lifetimes. But there are enough countries where the killing goes on where they are NOT trying to kill Americans. Peace is not easy, it is hard work. Soemtimes blood will flow, we cannot solve everything in the world, and no one has ever said we could, well maybe some really out of touch people have. But bullies will continue to bully until they realise that they will be stood up to, and we must continue to stand up to the killers or we will have them to face on our shores.
April 27th, 2007 at 6:31 amDrillanwr, Brad W, John Courage, Greg-USA, disgusted, and all -
I certainly don’t think that every person supporting this war effort is anti-troop or feels that they are “expendable.” I do worry (and get the distinct impression - although since I am certainly no mind-reader, I can’t be sure) that our administration does not always fully consider casualties and the implications of those casualties, nor that they weigh the options and the outcomes properly. I agree that something needs to be done about terrorism, about nasty dictators such as Saddam and others, and about general injustices in the world. I am concerned that although Saddam was a volatile, and likely Psychotic leader, that the current government installed remains so fragile that an improvement in the conditions there is unlikely whether American troops “stay the course” or not. The region, as many of you have stated, has been in a massive state of upheaval for decades, if not for much longer, and I’m not certain that our military action has, or even can completely reconstruct a civil society at any time in the relatively near future. If anything, I think that as the anti-American sentiment grows in Iraq and the surrounding region, that our chances for ending terrorist threats grows slimmer every moment. I also believe that our reasons for waging this war were not (at least fully) actually based on a terrorist threat. I think that in the days, months, and yes, even years following 9-11, our fear, our rage, and overall desperation to protect ourselves and find some justice for the thousands lost that day may have pushed us to react militarily against a nation that governmentally had little or no to do with the Trade Center & Pentagon attacks. I wish that we had found another way to go about policing the world’s terrorists (a job I think is absolutely crucial to the survival of the world) without attacking the country’s harboring them right off the mark. It seems to me, that there were several steps worthy of taking to find the terrorist cells, isolate and radicate them, before resorting to the bombing & occupation of two countries at the same time, with limited military resources, minimal planning, and without international support. If all else was attempted and failed, I might have been in full support of military action. As it stands I just simply can not see the complete justification.
Now that we are here, I understand the argument that the reasons we arrived are of less import than they were initially. I don’t think the issues are completely mutually exclusive, however. I think that one reason we are having trouble in Iraq, is that contrary to Cheney’s prediction, we were not greeted by all as liberators, but instead as occupiers, at least by many Iraqis’ perceptions. I do agree that pulling out of Iraq leaves the nation and surrounding region in an extremely vulnerable state, but unlike many of you I also believe that remaining there will almost surely have the same or a worse result, and in addition makes the anti-American sentiment ever stronger in those who already hated, feared, or otherwise disagreed with our philosophy, practices, and general way of life.
I do realize that I don’t have the benefit of all the intelligence, or experience of those in charge. Unfortunately I don’t completely trust the intelligence (as it has been proven to sometimes be faulty) and while I don’t question the experience of our leaders persay, I do often question their motivations, and methods. To me, (and I’m sure nearly everyone here will disagree) the reason we are in Iraq has little or no to do with terrorism (as I have previously explained) and little or no to do with a humanitarian effor to spread Democracy. I believe that Dick Cheney’s extensive pronouncements decades ago of his wishes to spread Imperialsm speaks volumes about his (and the rest of the administration’s) motivations in this case. Perhaps I am wrong about that, and honestly I hope that I am. I would love to find that our country’s actions are based on the tenants established by our forefathers, and not based on less than noble agendas. I fear, from the evidence I’ve seen thus far, that this simply isn’t the case.
To address my first posting, and the reasons for it… I do apologize for stumbling here and instantly frothing at the mouth. I suppose that in these chaotic times, we all feel passionately regardless of the view we take. In my defence, though, the rough talk and verbal shots that were already posted here, and truly moreso the notice printed directly above the posting window that stated that leftist posts would be deleted, fueled my fire. I honestly thought from that notice that my post would never even be allowed, and I was reflecting my disagreement with that isolationist philosophy. I recognize that we all need a safe place to vent our angers, and that this place has been that for many of you. For that, I apologize for ruining that sanctity. I just worry that with little to no dialogue between two American-loving sides with different perspectives, we have very little chance of ever uniting in the goal to have a safer, freer America, and world at large. I sincerely appreciate those of you who have responded with interest and perspective to my contrary view. As many of you feel that those of us leaning to the left are closed to dialogue on the subject, in my experience that is true on both sides. I think it is one of the things that hinders our country, but at the same time, differences can often lead to wholly new insights, and often a common ground if we allow the natural debate to occur.
As far as my political persuasion, as many of you have guessed I often favor the left, but never exclusively. I feel that each issue should be examined on its own, and to lump all issues in the world into two categories (left/right, liberal/conservative, democratic/republican) is often a dangerous game to play. For that reason, I idealistically tend to consider myself an Independent, although I rarely have voted third-party, and never in a presidential election for fear that in a two-party system, all other votes are essentially tossed in the garbage. I try my best to use the knowledge at hand to decide on an issue or candidate, rather than the flow of the political world, as history shows political tides sometimes change both wish issues and individuals.
I had no intention to come off as superior, and apologize sincerely that I might have done so. I credit that only to my passionate opinions, and my desire to resolve this issue in a way that is best for all concerned. I’m sure we are all guilty of that from time to time. I certainly would never intentionally say or do anything to appear that I do not love my country, or support our troops, and if I gave that impression, I certainly regret that as well.
Now I suppose is a good time to ask if the consensus is that I leave this discussion (and this site) to you, since it is not my intention to interfere with a venting process. I am truly grateful for the dialogue thus far, and honestly believe it to be (eventually) rather productive. Thank you to all who heard me out, and to those who see that I am not heartless or at all anti-American, I am pleasantly surprised at your open-mindedness.
It is not my goal to change your minds about this war, but simply to show you that compassionate, well-intentioned, intelligent people on all sides of this issue can perhaps find at least a speck of common ground in it. I think we have come to see that here, and that gives me a bit more hope that we can unite as a country to some extent for the greater good here and abroad.
Sincerely,
Lisa Flick
P.S. To gmoney: I’m very glad to hear that President Bush was supportive of our wounded soldier. I hope he continues to look at this on and individual scale as well as on a global one.
P.P.S. Sorry for the lengthy post… I tend to ramble a bit on subjects such as this. Please forgive my wordiness. : )
April 27th, 2007 at 10:59 amLisa,
For my part, I almost in total completely disagree with your position …
Secondly, for my part, don’t you DARE cut and run from this site!!!
Third, for my part, I will refrain from directing rough language in your direction when responding to your future posts. However, will NOT make same promise when addressing the topic …
April 28th, 2007 at 8:49 amLisa,
Wow, this is a complete turn of events with your latest post. If you had started out like this I am pretty sure you wouldn’t have received such harsh responses. With this type of dialogue both sides can talk about their views. I always try to understand as many sides of a situation as possible, and then make my own decision. A lot of people, from both sides of the isle, do develop a standard response to the other. Most of the time it is because the opposing side just rattles off the same thing over and over. We hear the same thing so many times one can quickly decide the other person is not open to their ideas and they deem it not worth the time.
I could write a novel in response to your post but will only address a few points. First, your information seems to only come from the mainstream media. You have to read more, and beyond the MSM. They have an agenda. You can start by reading the posts here that are from people actually in Iraq and those who have been there. I will bet you will start wondering why the MSM is not reporting these stories. Ask yourself why. Someone on the ground in Iraq has a much better perspective on what is really happening rather than someone reading a teleprompter trying to convey it in twenty two minutes.
“I do worry…that our administration does not always fully consider casualties and the implications of those casualties, nor that they weigh the options and the outcomes properly.”
Sure they do. They fully understand they are sending our troops into harms way. Sometimes you have to do things that aren’t fun, and are dangerous, for the greater good.
“I am concerned that although Saddam was a volatile, and likely Psychotic leader, that the current government installed remains so fragile that an improvement in the conditions there is unlikely whether American troops “stay the course” or not.”
Our troops leaving is a sure fire way for things to get really bad, not only for them but every peace-loving nation on the planet. It took the US two hundred years to get where these people are in just four short years. Yes, they have a long way to go but no one should give up on them. In this age of instantaneous everything some people think it should happen over night. We also tend to think about time based on a thirty-year mortgage. It will take time. We have had military bases in many other countries for decades. Chances are pretty good we will be in Iraq for a long time.
Have you noticed the Democrats were calling for a troop increase just a few years ago? Now that the increase has happened they are calling for a pullout and this was the wrong thing to do. No matter what Bush does, the left says the opposite. Have you not wondered about that and why?
“I wish that we had found another way to go about policing the world’s terrorists (a job I think is absolutely crucial to the survival of the world) without attacking the country’s harboring them right off the mark.”
It has been proven over and over for decades that talk and negotiations do not work. Look at what is happening with North Korea and Iran now. We did try to negotiate with Saddam for many years. In fact, part of the pullout in the Gulf War was that he had to stick by certain agreements. He did not. G.H.W. Bush’s mistake was pulling out back then. Had we not pulled out I think we would be a lot further along than we are now.
“If all else was attempted and failed, I might have been in full support of military action.”
We did try everything else and it failed. This had to be done. If we give up now everything leading up to this will be for naught and everyone will be much worse off than ever before.
“I do agree that pulling out of Iraq leaves the nation and surrounding region in an extremely vulnerable state, but unlike many of you I also believe that remaining there will almost surely have the same or a worse result…”
This is contradictory. If you think it is bad now, you don’t want to see what happens if we pull out. If we leave and they are in a vulnerable state, who do you think is going to go in and take over? Iran is right next door. Would you rather Iran has more control over that region or the US?
“I just worry that with little to no dialogue between two American-loving sides with different perspectives, we have very little chance of ever uniting in the goal to have a safer, freer America, and world at large.”
I think we all have the same perspective, world peace and safety, but differ in the way it should be approached. Knocking on doors and asking politely if there are any weapons or people wanting to do harm doesn’t work. The people we are fighting will kill you without hesitation just for being you. Watch the videos on this site taken during a meeting of extremists. There are two others I can’t find right now.
https://pat-dollard.com/2007/04/12/london-fallingparts-3-4/
https://pat-dollard.com/young-americans
“Now I suppose is a good time to ask if the consensus is that I leave this discussion (and this site) to you…”
No, that would be cutting and running. Stick around and read what is posted here. Watch and read from other sources that you do not normally see or agree with. I can suggest reading Drudge several times a day. I usually leave the page up as it auto-refreshes and read news that takes about three days to hit the media, if at all. The more you read and see from as many sources as possible, the better understanding you will have on any subject.
I can also suggest listening to Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh. Give it some time. I subscribe to many news sources, even the NYT and CNN in daily emails. I read everything I can. Hell, I even listen to Air America from time to time but can’t stomach it very long.
This was much longer than I intended. Finally, don’t take it personal when anyone here or elsewhere says things you don’t like or let it offend you. You are giving them too much control over you.
April 28th, 2007 at 11:21 amDrillan- Understood. I can respect that.
Greg- Here I go getting ridiculously wordy again, so for that I apologize in advance…
You said:
“Have you noticed the Democrats were calling for a troop increase just a few years ago? Now
that the increase has happened they are calling for a pullout and this was the wrong thing to do.
No matter what Bush does, the left says the opposite. Have you not wondered about that and
why?”
For me the time line seems to be quite different. Originally, when war was proposed in Iraq,
there was a certain set of information and intelligence that supported the initial action to move to
war. Much (admittedly, not all) of this intelligence was later found (and admitted by Bush,
Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, etc.) to not be completely accurate, and in some important cases,
entirely false (i.e. WMD‘s). There were a few voices of dissent even with the assumption that
this information may be correct, although admittedly not many, at least in America. Certainly the
United Nations, and nearly every major nation (with the notable exception of Britain) disagreed
that it was time to take such a severe course of action. I, for one, even with the information at
hand, was not certain that moving to war was the appropriate action to take. I believed then, and
still do, that war is a very necessary option, but certainly (and I’m sure most if not all of you
agree) the very last option.
In short [relatively speaking… : ) ] I believe this war was waged for these reasons (in no
particular order):
1. Power (referring to Cheney’s repeated and documented ideal for Imperialism to spread)
2. Money (i.e. Oil)
3. Religious/Social Differences (hopefully these are obvious)
4. Opportunity (given the already existing instability in the Middle East, and the focus on that
region brought on by the 9-11 terrorists countries of origin)
and not for these reasons:
1. 9-11 / Terrorism in general (no connection has been found between Saddam and 9-11)
2. Removing an evil Dictator (there are plenty of others we should have removed also, then)
3. Bringing Democracy to Iraq (although a nice thought, certainly not a motivation for war)
4. Protecting innocent Iraqis (there are innocent people dying and being oppressed in many other
areas of the world with no military action taken i.e. Darfur)
5. WMD’s (not only were none found, but we have yet to attack North Korea, or Iran, or even -
shall we not forget - Cuba, all who we have known with absolute certainty to have been
working toward or already possessing such weapons)
“We did try everything else and it failed. This had to be done. If we give up now everything
leading up to this will be for naught and everyone will be much worse off than ever before.”
I just simply disagree that every option was examined and attempted. The United Nations seemed
to agree with me. I realize we will continue to disagree on this point, so I will move on for now.
Okay, so we went to war. Later, we found out that much of the intelligence was inaccurate, and
many of those on the left of the aisle felt that their decisions were based on fabrications. I realize
that some of you have stated that the intelligence was not inaccurate, and I’d like more of your
information about this since the information I have is that even the President and his
administration has admitted much of it to be untrue. I am not certain that it was fabricated by the
Bush admin., and am still undecided as to whether it should be blamed on the administration, or
simply just an error in intelligence, or in judgment of that intelligence. Regardless of who was at
fault for the inaccuracies, once they are realized to exist, it is understandable to me that many of
those who had up until that point agreed with the war, began to change their minds, and feel as
though they were at the very least mislead by someone, and at the very worst outright lied to by
the administration. Either way, the voices of opposition grew with these findings.
But, as many of you have stated, once you are already at war, the situation has changed. The
perspective then shifts to what to do now that we are already involved. Some said to pull out
immediately, others that since we were already there, we needed to finish the job. To some
extent I agreed with the latter. Although I would not have been ready to pull the trigger when the
trigger was pulled, I recognized the difference between avoiding a war altogether, and stopping
mid-war and leaving. Those that felt like I did, wanted more funding, more troops, (and yes, a
bit better planning) to attempt to find a way for as quick a resolution to the problem as possible.
I hear your concerns about our society’s demands for immediacy, and I don’t always think these
situations can be resolved with speed. I realize that speed can not be the top priority, but I do
think it should have been (and should still be) at least part of the overall goal.
Flashing to more recent days, weeks, months… It is in my opinion that at this point, the problems
that are in some cases remaining the same, and in other cases becoming more intense in Iraq, are
problems not due to the existing situation as it was when we arrived years ago. They are not at
all a failure of our men and women to do the job they were asked to do. However, these
problems are in my opinion, BECAUSE of our presence, and directly related to the opposition to
us as what seems to many there to be a military occupation. I do realize that many vulnerable
Iraqi citizens are very supportive of our presence, and that they feel we are crucial to their
survival. They may, in fact, be right that our military affords them protection. Despite our best
efforts of our men and women on the ground, it seems to me that our resources (both financially
and militarily) are stretched entirely too thin. Currently many of our soldiers are serving more
tours in less time than we would have previously demanded of them, and others who thought
they had satisfied their obligations for service have been put back into the line of fire for
additional tours. Others still, who have just recently enlisted, are being sent to fight without the
standard amount of training, including skipping out on desert training to be rushed to action in
Iraq. The educational requirements, as well as the “no felony” rules have been brushed to the
side to ensure that as many people as possible would qualify for enlistment, since because of the
current conflict, many people who might ordinarily consider the military, might be hesitant if not
completely opposed to enlisting. The overall picture of our troops is going to become (and in
some cases already has) less qualified, more over-extended, and more over-worked. I realize that
in a time of war, these may be somewhat unavoidable, but I believe it still warrants an
examination.
Now that these problems exist, both with our own military resources and with insurgency at an
all-time high, many people (not all) both in government, in private sectors, and in the military,
are beginning to feel that the problems are beyond our ability to solve. Many also believe as I do
that our continued presence is only exacerbating both of these existing problems.
“This is contradictory. If you think it is bad now, you don’’t want to see what happens if we pull
out. If we leave and they are in a vulnerable state, who do you think is going to go in and take
over? Iran is right next door. Would you rather Iran has more control over that region or the
US?”
To me, it is not at all contradictory. It seems that the Iraqi government, military, and police will
never be able to fully secure their country as long as we are there (at least in the massive sense
that we are there now) on their own. They need to have the majority of responsibility set on their
own shoulders if they are ever to become successful. I have no problem remaining in Iraq as a
supportive force to their efforts, nor do I object to financially (if not otherwise) supporting the
actual re-building efforts. I simply do not believe that the majority of the military force present
should be ours. I would instead suggest that we attempt to secure the borders, attempt more
diplomacy within the surrounding region to prevent the spread of insurgency to/from surrounding
nations, and be a source of support for the currently instated government, politically and
financially.
“I think we all have the same perspective, world peace and safety, but differ in the way it should
be approached. Knocking on doors and asking politely if there are any weapons or people
wanting to do harm doesn’’t work. The people we are fighting will kill you without hesitation
just for being you. Watch the videos on this site taken during a meeting of extremists. There are
two others I can’’t find right now.”
I agree that our goals are the same. I didn’t think we should have “knocked on doors and asked
politely” but if sanctions were in place, and the only evidence of WMD’s was faulty, I don’t
think military action was justified. By your argument, it seems that if we even suspect a country
of having WMD’s or “people wanting to do harm” we are justified to go to war. I disagree
completely. That “shoot first, ask questions later” mentality just doesn’t work for me. To pull
the trigger on these sort of decisions, we must be CERTAIN it is the only course of action to
take. There is a burden of proof here. There must be more examination of a matter before
resorting to bombs and occupation.
I recognize that “the people we are fighting will kill you without hesitation just for being you.”
I think that to some extent that is because of pulling out of Iraq prematurely the first time (as you
referred to) and leaving those there hanging. At some point though, we must realize that the
damage of G.H.W.B.’s mistakes can not be undone by force and force alone. These people hate
us sometimes because of what they feel has been done to them by our own country in the past. I
would never and could never condone their course of action, but part of me does understand their
hatred for us as a country, let alone the serious social differences between our two societies. I
love our country very much, but that does not mean I can view it without its own flaws. Some of
those flaws in judgement in the past are somewhat credible reasons for hating us. I do hope that
none of you would accuse me of claiming that I’ve said their murderous attacks are justified. I
do not condone any of that in the slightest… I am simply trying to see the whole picture here, and
the reasons things are the way they are on both sides.
Which brings me to the videos you suggested I watch, and for the record I watched each video in
its entirety before responding here. I am as disgusted as anyone is with these sort of people’s
beliefs and actions. I certainly do not agree in the slightest with this Islamic extremist
philosophy. The truth is most Islamic people do not either! I recognize that people anywhere in
the world wanting to kill anyone who doesn’t agree with them need to be found, and dealt with. I
just disagree how to go about that. I recognize also that the methods these extremists are using
are very difficult to isolate and eradicate. I just don’t think that the methods we are using are
proving to be successful. All over the world, and throughout history, including in modern day
America, there are people of extreme ideologies, and violent intentions. To pose a parallel (that
I’m sure will be sternly disagreed with here) to me that would be like bombing Southern or
Middle America because there are some bigoted, racist, extremist, “Christians” there or
“K.K.K.” members, who have killed or tormented black people, homosexual people, or others
who they dislike or disapprove of. I agree that such inhumane philosophies should, and MUST
be exterminated. I just disagree that it is correct to attack the individuals by attacking the entire
region (i.e. shock & awe, and later, occupation, etc.) In the past many conservatives seem to
think that if we disagree about how to solve these problems, that people who do not share their
approach are simply “pro-terrorist”. That is just outright insulting, and completely ridiculous.
No one in their right mind would support these people’s violent approaches, let alone their evil
philosophies. We just disagree about what to do about them.
Just to note: let us not forget that Islamic people are not the only religious group with extremist
factions, and forcible religion. Our country being primarily a Christian one, we often forget
about the Crusades, about the struggles within Christian groups in Ireland for centuries, the aide
that is sent throughout the world by Christian groups, who often have religious strings attached to
their assistance to third world countries. Religion can be a wonderful, beautiful thing, but when
we believe strongly in our own faith, we often forget about the necessity that people willingly
believe in it, and focus on getting them to believe through means often less than honorable. I just
hope we can realize that this sort of religious extremism, and forcibly spreading such beliefs is
not at all unique to Islam. This reflects, too, the damage that can be done by a lack of separation
of Church and State, both here and abroad. Any time a government condones one religious
group, and negates another or even favors one over another, we run the risk of violent, oppressive
outcomes.
The videos of the soldiers was touching, and disturbing all at once. I have seen footage similar to
this, since contrary to many accusations here I do not only get my information from the MSM. I
feel intense sympathy and pride for the bravery and efforts by those soldiers. I have heard
soldiers who, like these, think that the stories being told about efforts failing in Iraq are false,
even fabricated, but I have also heard many soldiers who say that the region is out of control, and
that so many of their fellow soldiers have been killed, that they feel their own deaths are
imminent. I do not feel that either perspective reflects a lack of dedication or bravery, but only
that different people (much like you and I) can see the same situation from different perspectives.
I do not think that if there is at this time, or at any point a “failure” in and withdrawal from Iraq,
that would at all reflect the troops efforts. Every one of them that I have encountered has done
his/her best with the available means and situation. I hope that it is clear that the failures I see
occurring are ones of an administrational level and not failures on the part of the troops.
Does it really have to seem to everyone here that to be against this war is to be against the
troops? I recognize the need to have belief that what you are doing in Iraq is justified, and that
the lives lost are not for naught. I can only imagine the pain that this moral dilemma may cause.
To me, we can not justify what is happening to our soldiers, or to innocent Iraqis because we
need to feel that what our leaders are having us do is the right thing to do. It either is right, or it
isn’t.
As for being offended, obviously not too much so or I wouldn’t have stuck around. I recognize
April 28th, 2007 at 10:52 pmthat we all disagree on many aspects of this situation, but hopefully we all have the same
eventual goals. Besides… I’m not too easily offended to begin with… as long as those that dish it
out can handle it, too. : )
Lisa,
I think you will be able to see from the latest posts that we do NOT want you to leave the site. Open dialogue is a good thing, especially when it leads to sahring ideas and ridding ourselves of false impressions. I am not saying you have false impressions, that would be up to you to decide. Drillan, Rummy, Greg,GMoney and all the rest would, I hope, agree.
I think what really irritates us is that we are able to get only the MSM and EXTREME liberal view from the established news agencies. Remember the AP photog that was finally proven to have used posed and doctored photos? The MSM was all over the right to protect and support him, when he was proven to have done wrong that was covered and forgotten in a very few days, with little coverage. But when anyone on the right is accused of wrong doing, that is plastered all over, and when those accusations are proven wrong, the same minimal coverage is given.
The Democrats are given huge coverage in the papers and on TV spouting off about the mandate the were given in November, but can anyone show me where ANY of those dems that won ran on an anti-war, get out of Iraq agenda?
Anyway, I hope to see more of Lisa around here.
Thanks and Semper Fi to all
April 30th, 2007 at 4:16 amBrad -
I certainly appreciate your welcoming my opinions, and hope that others can agree that although we may differ greatly in theory and method, we are all on the same quest for peace.
I have also been a witness to the evils of MSM, and propaganda in general, on both sides of the aisle at various times in recent history. It is always to them more about the shock value, than ever about the truth it seems. Bigger story = Bigger bucks, I guess. I share your opinions about that problem absolutely.
I look forward to continuing to bounce ideas off of one another. Forgive me if I’m a bit absent this week, since I have been selected for jury duty, and will be monumentally busy juggling that and a regular work schedule. Don’t worry though… I won’t just “cut & run”… (from this site anyway.)
- Lisa
May 1st, 2007 at 6:40 pmHi every one i am Dennis from N Ireland. You cannot make peace with a man that does not want peace.
So send him to hell. And those who do. Keep them at arms lengh 
October 24th, 2007 at 1:22 pm