This Is Mind Control To Major Tom: There Is No War On Terror
First of all, the term liberal will no longer be used by me. Like “progressive”, it is simply part of the con that the American Fascist Left Party plays in order to disguise itself. And to put the finest point on it, being that the Fascist Leftists have absolutely no tolerance for anyone who is not a party member ( ie, black Americans who are Republicans are publicly called “House Niggers” ), they are in fact the most illiberal of Americans walking the planet. To call them Liberal is not merely a lie, or even a damn lie, it is the absolute 180 degree diametric opposite of the truth.
From hereon in I will only use the term Fascist Left or Left. And I don’t use “Fascist” as a loose pejorative or a gratuitous rhetorical slander. I use it strictly by it’s literal definition.: ” A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. ” or “a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry and commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.” Belligerent cultism has replaced agressive nationalism and racism. “Suppression of the opposition….censorship ( politcal correctness and drive by journalism fit the definition of censorship as well )…regimenting industry and commerce…belligerent cultism”…sound like the primary principles and practices of any group we know? No dictators on the Left, you say? Then why do they simply lie by saying America voted on and passed a referendum demanding a withdrawal from Iraq, and then enforce that policy in unabashed dictatorial style, ie, simply because they desire to? Why does Nancy Pelosi roam the halls of Congress and the World Stage behaving like nothing less than the self-appointed leader of America? The left runs a disguised and somewhat collective dictatorship, but a dictatorship it clearly is. We don’t count. It’s why questioning Global Warming is a Thought Crime. I kid you not. The Left’s mantra is: It’s too late for debate. You are an enemy of the State if you exercise your right to analyze the facts, and form your own opinion. Take a breath and a good look, ladies and gentlemen: There is only one moment in time acceptable to the American Fascist Left Party: 1984.
For the last few years, brainwashing and mind control have been used to startling effect by the Fascist Left’s media wing. The 24 hour cable news cycle, along with the interactive and communal natures of the internet (as well as it’s obsessive lure ), provide the ingredients necessary for the effective brainwashing of cultists. These ingredients are: an incessant ideological drumbeat, Big Brother Speak, a sense of belonging, and the certainty of absolute superiority found in service to the One True Purpose. Given that with these electronic tools no Cult Leader or officers have to be within actual physical proximity of an inductee, a modern phenemenon of cult indoctrination and proliferation has developed: the process of self-indoctrination. No authority figure need imprison a victim and then expend all that time and energy. Members and potential members merely flip on a glowing box, and in a near-hypnotic-process, induct and indoctrinate themselves. When vapid propaganda machines such as Moveon.org finally, completely and purposefully emptied the Left of nearly all rational ideology and policy, replacing them instead with factually unsupported mythologies, whose only criterion of merit was the advancement of Party Power, the Democrats shifted from being a political party to being The Cult of The Left. The Democratic Party is Dead. The American Fascist Left Party, which is the political wing of the Cult of The Left, is born.
Today the Big Brothers of the American Fascist Left executed a key move in their mind control agenda. They’ve abolished “the war on terror” as an allowable phrase, and therefor as an allowable concept. The War on Terror is a politically inconvenient truth for them, so now, officially, it simply does not exist. If there is a War on Terror, then everything the Democrats stand for, the very essence of their policies, is not only wrongheaded and useless, but lethally anti-American. So, now, by an official act of American Fascist Left Policy, the war is over.
So now they can force us all to fight Big Brother’s War on Global Warming. And don’t question the correctness of their science or policy. Or the Thought Police will shoot you in the head in front of your children.
UPDATE: Still think American Fascist Left commander Nancy Pelosi isn’t a dictator who employs Big Brother lies in order to consolidate political power? Well click here: Israel Denies Asking Pelosi To Deliver Peace Message To Syrian Terrorist Leader.
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Remember when it was the “liberals” who warned us about Big Brother? Ah…those were the days!
While we’re on the subject…These people who are telling me about global warming, aren’t they the scientific elite? Weren’t these the same assholes who told me throughout high school and college that (1) the world would run completely out of oil in 20 years, (2) acid rain would sterilize all fresh-water lakes by 1990, and (3) in 1982, when all the planets lined up, we were all going to die?
Who the f*&% are these nitwits?!
April 4th, 2007 at 7:44 pmOn the subject of there being no war on terror. If the dhimmicrats have their way, there won’t be.
April 4th, 2007 at 7:45 pmThe West in general have come so far down the road to dhimmitude it makes my teeth ache.
Most people have no idea how deeply they’ve been programmed, and just how much of a threat Islam is (all, including ‘moderates’). As for global warming, it’s just another cult, religious in its edicts and in that it must not be questioned.
April 4th, 2007 at 8:34 pmOhh no! the world is comming to an end! We’ll all be dead soon! your car is putting out more fumes and you’re killing the environment more than ever!
April 4th, 2007 at 8:50 pmWhen did this happen? lol
and the idiots who spout this crap are flying around in private jets. what a bunch of crackpots. The same people also say that methane gas put out by cows is killing the atmosphere. lol:roll:
This is an excellent comparison, Pat. The War on Terror is not real and we can not question it. The War on Global Warming is real and we can not question it. If there ever was a more poignant description of the left moving to socialism as fast as possible this is it.
The left can’t handle or deal with real facts and require a briefing with a proper amount of time to respond so we know they will never win against the thinking person, including our military. The next thing they will probably ban is The War of Wits.
You wanna do away with “liberal” and “progressive”? I will add one more - “conscientious objector”.
Conscientious
April 4th, 2007 at 9:19 pmObjectors
Who
Are
Really
Democrats
Dear Pat,
You are so right. America’s left are not liberals. A keystone of true liberalism is that the expression of opinions from both sides of all issues should be encouraged.
Today’s American socialists like Germany’s socialists (of the 1930s) despise the concept of free expression of ideas.
The word NAZI of course is a contraction of the German phrase “The National Socialist party“.
A couple of months ago America’s leftists held a conference to try and find a way to “return free speech” to America’s radio stations. Don’t you love the way that leftists always use Orwellian New Speak to try and hide the truth.
Now you have added your voice to those trying to get the truth out.
They will despise you for it. But in the end we will win. Because as Bill Bennett told me, “They have their right to their opinions. But they don’t have the right to change the facts.”
Point well made,
April 4th, 2007 at 9:32 pmDoctavian
Our government has become quite the comedy. The Speaker of the Shit is galavanting with terrorist regimes, the Supreme Court rules that very substance that you and I exhale is a “pollutant”, and Congress is telling me how I can and cannot characterize the war.
Perhaps if I just forget that the Leftists exist, just as they have forgotten about or brothers and sisters fighting and dying in Afghanistan and Iraq, they will cease to exist. I know…wishful thinking.
Oh, and about all of these posers preaching the end of mankind and still flying all over the world in their private jets…maybe they’ll decide decrease their CO2 contributions to the greenhouse layer of our atmosphere by way of respiratory failure. One can dream.
April 4th, 2007 at 10:03 pmThis is why I homeschool my kids. I cannot trust the public school system to educate my children. They were enrolled in public school for a few years–we tried…. I am still having to “deprogram” some of the ideology that is instilled in our children from kindergarten all the way through college. I do not fear my children being exposed to different view points–no matter how radical–at a college level. My hope is by that point they will be mature and secure enough in their own beliefs and knowledge to not be swayed by thinly veiled attempts at indoctrination. Five-year olds, however, don’t stand a chance. And that is where it is starting. There are so many topics that cannot be discussed due to political correctedness. I had a first grade teacher approach me with fear and concern for her job…she tried to explain her mistake to me. I suppose it was an attempt to keep me from going to the principal and endangering her job. Her infraction? My son had found a book about Noah’s ark sticking out of her personal book bag and read it. She almost cried when I said “We’re Christians don’t worry”. She was that relieved…….. Yet daily our kids are bombarded with evolution, “cultural sensitivity”, alternative lifestyles, global warming..and a myriad of other topics on the Left’s agenda. My 6 year old son was spouting off the rhetoric about global warming and how I shouldn’t drive my big Suburban. We should carpool or take public transportation—he said.
I’m not kidding….First of all we live in the sticks–due to Army relocation— second I have 5 boys…no one is carpooling with us….. lol Then I asked all of them about dinosaurs and mammoths–their favorite topic. “Mammoths lived when? Ahh.. during the Ice Age. And why are they not here today? Ummm…because the world heated up, the ice melted and they couldn’t survive. And how many SUV’s were being driven around at the time? See my point? Now get in the truck…”
April 5th, 2007 at 12:37 amAs far as self-indoctrination–that starts early too. Video games, TV, computers—our youth is addicted to the glowing screen. People wonder why ADD is rampant–people wonder why kids take guns to school and experiment with drugs. People wonder what’s wrong with kids these days. The problem is they are being raised by electronic machines. Everyone can afford an electronic nanny. While not imparting morals or an ability to practice a free thought process, these modern Mary Poppins have figured out how to make the sugar of the Left’s propoganda go down very easily. American’s are gobbling it up.
I am concerned about what this nation will be like when my kids are grown. My husband (a hard-core soldier through and through) talks of moving to another country within the next few years–Belize or the Phillipines. I don’t know if we will…however, I think it is tragic that our country’s atmosphere has become so toxic that a soldier who has spent his life defending this nation no longer feels like he can raise his kids here. It is like a dysfunctional relationship–when you love someone but they aren’t good for you. He loves this country but it’s not good for us any longer. Sad… he is putting his life on the line every day for our country. Yet, when he lays down after a day of defending our nation, he dreams of taking his family away–someplace quiet, someplace safe, someplace besides here where the clamor of the Left’s incessant propoganda is becoming stifling.
WAR!!!
Its almost too late. America! Stop the left before this gets ugly!
April 5th, 2007 at 12:53 amAdd Oprah winfrey to the list of “sheep” who were moved by the “inconvenient lie” by self proclaimed scientist al gore. Please tell me people, if all this science is true , why hasnt al gore brought all these alleged scientists with him to give credibility to his story? I dont see politicians lining up to refute him but actual climatologists in europe and the US.
but when they do refute it Al gore
says they are being paid by big bad corporations with a vested interest in people using oil and coal and other CO2 pollutants. 
Yet fascist leftist seems to not see the link between Al Gore and the companies now listed as selling carbon credits.
One of the companies is owned and operated by al gore himself, so inevitably he is buying these offsets, for his majorly polluting house in tennesee, from himself. Why what a humanitarian! Since it is all said and done in the leftist mindset, I guess we will never see climatologist argue this on TV.
what a concept! but no we would rather see self proclaimed prophets of global warming, who have no training or expertise in the sciences, spout off.
Incidentally you know what moved oprah winfrey the most, the same thing that moved little children who have been forced to watch thise tripe in their schools; seeing the helpless(animated)polar bears drowning. They coldnt get one picture of a drowning polar bear so they used animation instead. I thought Oprah had a brain.
I used to respect her, but I think she needs to retire.
April 5th, 2007 at 12:59 amI can see a civil war breaking out in this country in the next 10-15 years.
April 5th, 2007 at 2:38 amAm I dreaming this, Pat? Am I just dreaming that the left, no longer content to heckle the war on terror from the sidelines, has begun to say, “there is no war on terror?”
This recruit MUST be dreaming. They can’t be serious. They CANNOT be serious! A belated April Fool’s joke, surely.
(Excuse me while I cause some global warming [farts loudly].) Ahh.
I will never leave my country because of liberal fucksticks; I will, however, live in the most hick red state there is in the most backward, non-progressive town I can find.
I have friends who refuse to “take sides,” such as my best buddy Jerusalem (USAF recruit). He doesn’t yet understand that once you comprehend Conservatism and what it means, it informs every part of your life–from not giving a shit about global warming, to not cheating on your wife, to having the common sense to pass judgement on crap. I’ll lend him Mark Steyn’s America Alone, it’ll help him out. He’s a conservative, but he doesn’t realize it yet.
We live in a culture where we create pubescent sex symbols and then enjoy the spectacle of them falling to pieces seven years later (Spears). Where the height of female power (being a porn star) has taken its toll so much that Jenna Jamieson’s vagina has been worn to the point of needing reconstructive surgery (and that gets fucked up.) Where the most famous gold-digger in history is on the news every hour for months, a mother having killed herself with pills–another pornography contributor.
And yet the mantra rolls on: get your seven year old thongs so she doesn’t have to suffer panty lines, teach the kindergarten class how to put a condom on, and teach high school girls that using their tits and vag is using their “power.” [Barf!]
Even Christian private schools that I attended were anything but a Christian experience for me. Somehow, I turned out allright, but a lot of kids I know didn’t. Here’s an idea: let’s make it taboo for girls under the age of 18 to wear a bikini. No good can come of it!
Save that bottle of Pinot Vagin for marriage!
April 5th, 2007 at 4:44 amAnd be sure to make out with recruits soon to ship off to boot camp.
April 5th, 2007 at 4:51 amOutrage
April 5th, 2007 at 4:59 amNo GWOT … No Long war
Outrage
National Pahriah
Outrage
Mike Wallace “President Tom” is really a nice guy” - just wants to talk….
(while Tom he turns the knife in our backs)
Outrage
GB caputulates to “Pres Tom”
Outrage
Democrat Charlie Rengel admits to wasting, buying votes, acting to send message only, vows to repeat same, admits this is the Dem plan etc.
Outrage Outrwage Outrage
Writing in complete sentences: pass it on!
April 5th, 2007 at 5:00 amEvan Sayet expertly sums it up. In the Democrat Faschist world there is no right or wrong, no standard no rational basis for argument. The only “right view” is full agreement with them. No room for alternative views. No intelligence other than them. There are no facts other than their own concensus. If you don’t agree with them your a denyer and must be punished with smear, trial, and destruction of your livelyhood. All denyer are intellectually deficient, will never get it, and need to be beaten down till they have nothing left to fight with.
The Faschists will oppose any network we try to develop - look at the fairness doctrine. The only half-ass mostly-ineffective network we have and they want to destroy it by making every group that opposes talk radio views get equal time to air thier views (without being commpensated for use of the time by the way).
When that day comes I fear my own actions!
April 5th, 2007 at 5:15 amI will never give up or give in. There is a way to make all Democrats in office totally eneffective. It will some how be achieved by my guiding them to their own undoing. I must make them undo themselves. I don’t know how, but I can’t sit back and let them hijack my country and tell me what I think!
April 5th, 2007 at 5:24 amTHE EASTER BUNNY IS SICK OF LEFTIST BULLSHIT, AND HE’S NOT TAKING IT ANYMORE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPb0po2jzfg
April 5th, 2007 at 5:27 amI think you have defined what actually has been going on in America, as well as in our wider ‘western’ culture, for quite some time now - and done so extremely well. Although I think I’ve come up with a more ‘official’ sounding name for this ‘world’ Fascist Left movement.
Politicallycorrectmulticulturalistsmilitantenvironmentalistinternationalsocialism
Strangely enough, my ’spell check’ doesn’t seem to have a problem with this?
April 5th, 2007 at 5:27 amThere has to be a way to visually show the people of America who they really are (the Dems & Liberal Media - the Faschists)! There has to be an easy to understand and quick way! A method that strings every wrong action of the Dems & MSM together so that anyone viewing it can see it clearly. I can’t even find the recent voting history of my own Senator. I get frustrated and give up. I have no way to hold these traitors accountable for any of thier actions. They act under a vail that obscures and then accuse the conservatives of conspiracies and secrecy as they do it.
In the business world they use a tool called data mining to pull tons of information from massive databases to track behaviors or trends. Its a tool that enables a business to see exactly whats going on.
April 5th, 2007 at 5:41 amDemocrat:
April 5th, 2007 at 5:44 amTeardown what is good and raise up that which is evil. (Evan Sayet)
MSM:
Teardown what is good and raise up that which is evil. (Evan Sayet)
Faschist:
Teardown what is good and raise up that which is evil. (Evan Sayet)
By the way, I’m watching South Park I DVR’d last night. They’re really excoriating Bill Donahue, and it’s long overdue.
April 5th, 2007 at 5:48 amJesus just cut Bill Donahue in twain with a five-bladed collasping throwing star.
I love South Park.
April 5th, 2007 at 5:52 amAction is needed, with the upcoming elections, we can peacefully take the fascists out of leadership roles. Hopefully clear minded individuals will actually vote this time, staying home on the last election to prove a point has turned out well hasn’t it? We must win by a large margin also, if the votes are close the elections will be brought into court and the ideology of a judge will determine the ‘will of the people’.
Fight against the use of computer voting machines, their results are easily manipulated and will turn the govt over to the fascists, I favor hand marked ballots and a purple finger of pride. The hippies have to go.
If this cannot happen peacefully We the People of the United States, in order to reform a more perfect union will have to act by any means necessary.
Freedom is worth any required sacrifice, for a life in bondage is not a life worth living.
April 5th, 2007 at 5:59 amI’m an Air Force Reservist, but also I go to the University of Wisconsin-Madison. I’m sure some of you have heard of Kevin Barret (not sure if that is the correct spelling of his name, honestly don’t care) he is/was a professor here and was teaching a class Intro to the History of Islam or something to that nature, but during this past semester he was given a week or two to discuss his theory of the US Government staging 9-11. He also wrote a piece in the school newspaper discussing how Al Queda was also invented by the US Government. Drives me fucking nuts that this was allowed to be taught at my school. Let’s see how many 18 year old kids we can convince of our tin-foil hat conspiricies…
April 5th, 2007 at 6:31 amMaybe a little off topic here…
But doesn’t the left realize that appeasing the jihadi’s will not lead to a “global utopia” (as pointed out by evan sayet?
Sure…Osama has smartened up since 9/11 and realized that the left’s policies are better for him…so if he had the choice he’d kill Republicans one day…& maybe kill the Dems 2 or 3 days later?
How can they be so ignorant to think that they can appease the jihadi’s?
April 5th, 2007 at 6:36 amPat,
Not only was this a brilliant observation and definition of who/what the so-called liberals/progressives are in this country (and around the civilized world), but it definitely IS what they have been trying to hide from the unwashed masses. By that I mean people who just roll through their daily lives and expect they are being told everything they need to know by the easily accessible MSM, and never make an effort to look under a microscope of what they are being told and what they aren’t. Of course, the MSM knows this … laziness of the U.M.s and plays on it daily. That is why people, such as yourself and the Limbaughs and Fox News Channel, are constantly smeared and scoffed at. If you all have ever watched a lefty and a conservative debating on the tube you’ll notice the lefty always has to shout and talk over and interrupt the conservative. Very, very Fascist. (Every time I see one of them bring up Halliburton I hear “Gollum … Gollum!”)
Anyhow, you have hit the mark here.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:05 amMatt-
listen to john lennon’s “imagine” again and again and again, then you will realize a peaceful utopia can be here if you just imagine it so.
I’m not sure the jihadi’s have listened to it though, that’s ok, you just keep imagining.
They are disillusioned hippies who will realize their errors only when the blade begins to cleave the flesh on their necks.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:08 amUnder this posting we can now state the nation is divided. The interesting thing I see of this analysis is that the definition Pat uses to describe the Fascist Left is absolutely appropriate to the current administration. We see in this country those who make the crucial decisions having the least intellect. It is ignorant to call the war in Iraq “The War on Terror” since none of those responsible for waging war against the US prior to 9/11 came from Iraq. In fact the whole concept of a war on terror is ignorant because you can’t wage war on a thing. You can and should wage war on Al-Qaida, on Osama Bin Ladan. You can and should wage war on militant Islam. Prior to the American Invasion of Iraq the one key member of Iraq who was waging a war on militant Islam there was none other than Saddam Hussein. By overthrowing him we have uncapped the cork on militant Islam in Iraq and emboldened and empowered Iran. Put the shovel down, our hole is big enough. The reality is the left has seen the insanity of the so called “War on Terror” and the execution of waging this war has created a climate which created more terrorists not fewer.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:11 amKipp, with all do respect you are so wrong. Look deeper than what your political party tell you to think. Independently research and go deeper, at least 30 yrs in regards to the changes in the middle east. You should go back further but that is a good start. Check out this site, and consider the information and not a quick dismissal. You should realize this war is part of a global effort for a systemic solution, to go beyond the termination of the immediate offenders. This action, if successfull will save millions. If the Nazi’s were stopped earlier the over 60 million dead in WWII could have possibly been in the thousands. I preached against Reagan earlier in my life, and the evil of James
Watt etc, but then after several years of hearing the leftist tell tales and seeing a different reality I came to reason. Give it some deep open thought.
http://www.thomaspmbarnett.com/published/pentagonsnewmap.htm
April 5th, 2007 at 7:36 amChad, if Kipp’s post doesn’t qualify as inane leftist drivel, I don’t know what does.
Being smart doesn’t help you make good decisions.
Saddam Hussein paid off Palestinian terrorists families for blowing themselves up killing Israelis. A number of high-profile Al Qaeda (that’s a terrorist organization, mind you) were chillin’ like villians in Baghdad for years.
If you haven’t noticed, Islamic terrorists have a way of being international in their operations. So we’re supposed to attack Saudi Arabia, by your logic.
You can so wage war on a thing. I wage war on my toilet everyday.
So your semantics issue is that we should call it a “War on Terrorists” instead. Funny thing, the BBC refuses to call terrorists terrorists.
You’re wrong about Saddam, you might want to read a book before you start spewing garbage out of your ass like that. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Saddam was Saddam; he allied himself with whoever he thought would help him the most at the time, and that included Islamic terrorists; of course, Saddam was always a “devout muslim,” sometimes more than others.
“By overthrowing him we have uncapped the cork on militant Islam in Iraq…” That must be why the majority of jihadis in Iraq are from foreign countries, with foreign bombs and foreign financing… “…and emboldened and empowered Iran.” This must be a belated April Fools joke.
“The reality is the left has seen the insanity of the so called “War on Terror” and the execution of waging this war has created a climate which created more terrorists not fewer.” Here’s an idea: obviously you’re content to let the terrorists kill as many Americans as they want to, and eventually take over our country and institute sharia law.
What you need is a vacation in Tehran!
Shut-up, fuckstick.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:47 amKipp - Wow, you have been fully indoctrinated by the MSM. This very site you post on shows you the truth about what is really going on. Why do you choose to ignore the evidence right in front of you and continue to believe the filtered and spoon-fed “information” from the MSM? Do you really think we can fully understand what is going on in the world in twenty-two minutes of evening news? You should also try listening to Rush Limbaugh and stay away from Err America.
Al Qaeda didn’t attack the US prior to September 11, 2001? The 1993 WTC attack and the USS Cole, both under Clinton, are just two recent examples. You are in step with the left trying to blame the US for everything and bring defeat to the US. The terrorists existed before we did anything in Iraq. There are now fewer of them because they have been killed. If the left had done the exact same thing, CNN and the NYT would be trumpeting all of the great things going on in Iraq. You are probably just another drive-by poster and will never return to this site to read what others post to counter your “observations”. It’s always easier to remain safe in your belief instead of questioning it and trying to find out if it is the truth.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:53 amKipp - “Under this posting we can now state the nation is divided. The interesting thing I see of this analysis is that the definition Pat uses to describe the Fascist Left is absolutely appropriate to the current administration.” - April 5th, 2007 at 7:11 am
Mr. Dollard, I hope you leave Kipp’s comment here; I have a link that he just might find slightly illuminating. It was written by a man of his’ political persuasion (well, that’s more of guess on my part). But this author, political affiliations aside, does apparently ‘get it.’
It was written, and published, just before last fall’s election. I could elaborate further but this man’s ‘essay’ pretty much speaks for itself.
http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2006-10-29-1.html
Page title: Civilization Watch - October 29, 2006 - The Only Issue This Election Day - The Ornery American
April 5th, 2007 at 9:04 amKipp: You’re attempt to be rational just proves your brainwashed. There is no rational thought in what you said. All you know is Tear down what is good.
The only productive endeavor you engage in is to raise up that which is evil - that’s you. Ultimately, all you can achieve is to make evil as respected as, or more so, good.
There is absolutely nothing you can say that makes your position rational, and there is nothing you can show that is positive in the Leftist arena.
You will fail to succeed in your sheep like following of the Left. You can’t stand any one who is principled in right & wrong. I will pray for you!
April 5th, 2007 at 9:33 amRumsfeld47
April 5th, 2007 at 9:38 amThanks for the Easterbunny bit.
I needed a chuckle.
Thanks
J
The left fails (or, more likely refuses) to realize that Heaven forbid, their “solution” to THE WAR ON TERROR were ever to be adopted as U.S. policy the jihadists would follow our warriors home and it would be these self-same bastions of good will (the facists among us) who would be blindfolded, bound,and feel (briefly) the blade as their heads are lopped off. Why some have such a hard time accepting the fact that there is, indeed, evil in the world boggles the mind. You cannot reason with our enemy and all of the John Lennon bullshit, wishful thinking won’t change that.
April 5th, 2007 at 10:08 amSimple analogy; I live in a rural area. If a stray dog or wild animal shows up on my property acting aggresive toward me and/or my family, I don’t think “Gee, maybe if I feed this poor creature and provide some Vet. medicine, I can make it like me and live with it in peace and harmony!” Nope, I don’t thnk that at all, I realize it’s a lost cause and shoot the sonofabitch. End of rant.
Kipp the Dip said:
“Under this posting we can now state the nation is divided. The interesting thing I see of this analysis is that the definition Pat uses to describe the Fascist Left is absolutely appropriate to the current administration. We see in this country those who make the crucial decisions having the least intellect. It is ignorant to call the war in Iraq “The War on Terror” since none of those responsible for waging war against the US prior to 9/11 came from Iraq. In fact the whole concept of a war on terror is ignorant because you can’t wage war on a thing. You can and should wage war on Al-Qaida, on Osama Bin Ladan. You can and should wage war on militant Islam. Prior to the American Invasion of Iraq the one key member of Iraq who was waging a war on militant Islam there was none other than Saddam Hussein. By overthrowing him we have uncapped the cork on militant Islam in Iraq and emboldened and empowered Iran. Put the shovel down, our hole is big enough. The reality is the left has seen the insanity of the so called “War on Terror” and the execution of waging this war has created a climate which created more terrorists not fewer.”
Ummm…al-Qaeda is in Iraq. Hello? Is this thing on?
April 5th, 2007 at 10:34 amThanks very much for your responses. I would like to tell all of you that I read this site almost everyday. It is true, I am leftist, but I’m not radical left. I have read military history almost exclusively since I was 12. I am not one of those crazy leftist radicals that believes in appeasement. War is necessary in many instances. I have not posted in here because Pat says he will not let leftist postings stand. But maybe out of respectful dialogue, and I will keep my postings respectful, I can insert a point of view that may be different than many that come here see in someone from the left.
I am very familiar with the Middle East. I spent two years in the mountains of Yemen. I was the only Westerner in the village I lived in and as a teacher I was surrounded by Arabs who made up most of the nations in the Middle East. Many of my fellow teachers were Palestinian. I travelled for a month with a former special forces soldier from Israel. My understanding of the region is much different than most people. I speak Arabic and have conversations frequently with Arabs living in the US. I would like to take the time to address some of your responses.
I addressed the fact that I am not a driveby (nice RL reference) to this site.
If we wanted a “systemic solution” to the immediate offenders we should have sent 150,000 of our finest to Afghanistan and then invaded Pakistan until OBL and his base are dead.
It seems that so many people want to make the Nazi reference in regards to fighting Islamic extremists. There really is no connection except that both are Conservative regimes. Al-Qaeda is more like piracy. Even their most dispicable act (9-11) was an act of piracy. I’m just stunned that those who back this so called War on Terror rarely mention Saudi Arabia. Our beloved ally not only bred most of the culprits on 9/11 but also continues to sponsor Madrassas throughout the Muslim world without much attention from those who boast the most about this war.
Rumsfeld47 above says that by my theory we should attack Saudi Arabia and I say we had more a justification for attacking SA than Iraq.
Greg above says there are fewer terrorist because of our attack. I beg to differ. For every person we kill in Iraq we create a host of people that never hated us that now do. As you know Iraq is a tribal country and tribal loyalties spread way beyond just the traditional nuclear families.
About Saddam funding terrorists attacking Israel. Since when do we make it our business in defending Israel. If this is the case than Israel can go to war with Iraq. They already had justification from the First Gulf War to do so.
“By overthrowing him we have uncapped the cork on militant Islam in Iraq…” That must be why the majority of jihadis in Iraq are from foreign countries, with foreign bombs and foreign financing… “…and emboldened and empowered Iran.” This must be a belated April Fools joke.
The very same Jihadis that didn’t exist there before. The very Jihadis that SH would not allow to assurp his authority in Iraq.
You’re wrong about Saddam, you might want to read a book before you start spewing garbage out of your ass like that. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Saddam was Saddam; he allied himself with whoever he thought would help him the most at the time, and that included Islamic terrorists; of course, Saddam was always a “devout muslim,” sometimes more than others.
Saddam was anything but a devout muslim. He did anything to maintain power but his sadistic power trip was a check on Iran. A vacuum we now are forced to provide.
Daniel…I promise to read your link. I don’t have time now but will later on.
Viking…There is evil in the Muslim world. These people that do such acts should be killed, eradicated from the earth but the war in Iraq has created a lawless petrie dish for them to carry out such evil.
Finally I leave you with something to ponder. When we fought our war using insergent tactics (Revolutionary War) we had a most able commander (Washington) and visionary leftist leaders (Jefferson, Madison, Adams…) Name one Iraqi military leader who will transform Iraq as we leave. Who is their Washington? Who is there Jefferson, Madison or Monroe? I am sure that no one on this site can give me one name. Until we see such leaders in Iraq, this war will never succeed. Even the most ardent military commanders admit that this war cannot be won militarily.
Thanks for the opportunity to post,
Kipp
April 5th, 2007 at 11:29 amKipp, you might want to invest in a dictionary.
Your response reads like a laundry list of liberal talking points. Go figure.
Newsflash: Islamofascist pigs realize that if Iraq is free, then their little slice of heaven (for the lack of a better word) falls apart.
You claim that for every “person” we kill (which would be terrorist cockroaches for those of us who know better), it creates a “host” of people that never hated us before to now hate us.
I would call that odd, because it’s terrorists our troops kill that give them trouble in the first place. If this “host” of people—should they actually exist, which I doubt—has a problem with that, oh fucking well. You can’t please all of the terrorists and their coddlers all the time. Unless, of course, you’re Nancy “I went to Syria! Ask me how!” Pelosi.
And you’re kidding me about the comparison to Washington, right? “Visionary leftist leaders?” Give me a break. I hardly think Madison, Jefferson and Adams would find anything remotely similar to *your* side, *especially* in regards to an actual moral compass, which your side lacks in spades.
April 5th, 2007 at 11:51 amIacobus wrote;
“And you’re kidding me about the comparison to Washington, right? “Visionary leftist leaders?” Give me a break. I hardly think Madison, Jefferson and Adams would find anything remotely similar to *your* side, *especially* in regards to an actual moral compass, which your side lacks in spades.”
VERY well said Iacobus.
Funny, I cannot seem to remember which of our founding “leftists” championed the “America sucks/America’s always wrong/let’s all hold hands and sing” bullshit.
April 5th, 2007 at 12:14 pmWell I do not accept the concept of living under Shira law.
My view on most Muslims outside of the US is that they are intolerant of any other views, or beliefs.
I am not offended in the US if I cross paths with a woman dressed in atire that expressed her devotion to Islam. I would not be offended if a man wear to take a prayer rug out and turning to mecca began praying to his deity. I would not be offended if a person prayed the rosary sitting next to me in a public venue. I accept people as they are, I do not expect them to confirm to my beliefs. I will not accept them trying to impose their will upon me.
We have been under attack for over a quarter century by these murderous thugs.
After 3000 CIVILIANS were killed in just a few hours on our soil, it was evident the previous responses were not effective.
If the belief that representative democratic governments in the middle east (a systemic solution), who become a member of the modern world does not curtail the growth of such hate, then I am comfortable with the military destruction of their societies.
The military may not win the war in Iraq, militaries almost never win a war outright. They provide the atmosphere for a diplomatic settlement to take place or a change of behavior of those that oppose it.
April 5th, 2007 at 12:27 pmIn other words we haven’t killed enough of those bastards yet. But it is turning, now we see the Sunni elements now confronting alqaeda. More good to come.
Kipp,
Americans in Iraq brings the jihadist too Iraq. True. And it keeps them out of America. I’d rather have our soldiers fight our wars than our civilians.
Iraq was a check on Iran. Also true. However, Saddam was a piece of shit who deserved to die. We’re doing Iraq a favor. Furthermore, if we leave Iraq now, Iran will simply move in. We’re the world police, or havn’t you watched Team America? So let’s do our job and kick the shit out of the bad guys.
Military victory in Iraq: We may not get a spectacular military victory in Iraq, but we have the ability to turn over a country that has a fighting chance. If we leave now, millions will die in a religious civil war. The survivors will hate us for leaving them, and we’ll have another militant Muslim nation, full of recruitable jihadis to deal with.
Lack of leadership in Iraq: NO SHIT. Why do you think we’re still there? There’s no leadership in Iraq because Saddam ensured all his political rivals were shot. Are you suggesting we leave Iraq leaderless? Should we let Iran move in, massacre the Sunni’s and watch a Civil War live on CNN? George Washington and Jefferson arn’t going to be born of this war. Iraq is going to survive with the Michael Collins’s and the Eamon de Valera’s. But if we leave now, what chance do these types of people have of coming to the surface?
April 5th, 2007 at 12:31 pmLacobus,
Oh yes…I know lots of Leftists that say we should hold Saudi Arabia to account, we should have invaded Pakistan not Iraq. So much for liberal talking points, huh?!?!?!
And the big mistake you make in your argument about killing terrorists is that most of those waging war against us in Iraq are not foreign born and would never have dreamed about attacking the US if we hadn’t invaded their country. Now that we are killing them in the thousands we have created that many more enemies than we ever had before.
If you don’t think our founding fathers were liberals then you need to go back and read your history books. The Conservatives in the War for American Independence were the Tories and the British.
Newsflash: The Islamofascists would never have a little slice of heaven if we hadn’t invaded Iraq and brought about anarchy.
Like I told you before, I am like no liberal you have ever known before. Rumsfeldt47 said I needed to read more. I am sure I have read more on the Iraq War than he has. From Bing West’s great account of Falluja and the run up to Baghdad all the way to more liberal accounts. I know I have read more history than he will ever dream of. You see. This is why I can debate rationally with you without name calling and without idiotic antics like those radicals that disrupted Karl Rove the other night. And please if you precede your comments with Kipp the Dip please add two p’s to dip. Thanks,
Kipp
April 5th, 2007 at 12:41 pmSorry for the double post (double speak, get it?), I wanted to break my reply to Kipp from this post.
Pat, you hit the nail on the head. I’m not quite convinced enough to call them Fascists (for lack of a nationalist spirit, I truly believe the Left hates America), but we are deffinitely dealing with a radically polarized group. Socialist Democratic Party? SDP.. NSDP? And dammit you’re right to stop calling them liberal. I consider myself a Liberal in the truest sense of the word:
“of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.”
-dictionary.com
What scares me is the brainwashing element. Leftist education is raising a bunch of 20-something age morons. Look at the Yale kids burning the flag today. WTF! Punk-ass kids have everything because someone sacrificed for them and that’s how they repay it.
The Left praises the notion of “political correctness” while they secretly tear down facets of the nation and the Constitution. We’re at a crossroads, and I sincerely pray that the Dems lack of policy will destory itself.
April 5th, 2007 at 12:57 pmThanks for this excellent post, Pat. And it appears that you have hit a very raw nerve, indeed. Keep their pachouli stinkin feet to the fire, man.
April 5th, 2007 at 1:30 pmGreetings:
I worked for a very VERY I MEAN VERY Liberal organization called Nature’s Classroom. Entire staff from this outdoor ed program would go to anti war marches in NYC…
…but when they came back I noticed a change. Many of my fellow staffmembers were stunned by what they learned once in the streets.
We need, in this country, a defining moment. The World Trade Centers was like that noise we hear in the dark and we don’t know what it was but we are considering getting out of bed and looking. The Liberal media was telling us to stay in bed, it was nothing…
What we need is to understand, to be slammed in the face with reality.
FDR tried everything to get us into WWII. From what I read he realized that the German War Machine would not stop at the outer buoys marking the entrance to the Thames. He realized what was going on but most Americans didn’t…
…until Pearl Harbor.
I say…let’s vote for Hilary. We need a swift kick in the ass or we’re going to be like that frog in the stainless steel jacuzzi…ah, this is nice…
Iraq is too far away for most Americans.
Or maybe, we need the military to start bringing civilians on patrol…yeah, that would do it!
Whatever and however we get it, we need a dose of reality as a nation.
What say you?
Tim Roesch
April 5th, 2007 at 1:38 pmapostate in training
Command Private Major - retired
Kipperoo: My name begins with an, “I,” as in, “India.” (Sheesh, you’d think liberals would get on with reading comprehension. That’s what I get.)
Another newsflash: We did not invade their country. We liberated it from a fucking retard and his cronies that kept them in so much fear and oppression it makes the present-day conflict look like Disneyland by comparison. At least people of Iraq can engage in dialogue without fear of being taken away in the night by its government.
“Killing them by the thousands?” Any collateral damage during the liberation was never intended. Shit happens. If I knew another country was coming to help my people out of the dark hole of oppression I’d be more than willing to stick it out, even it means I died in the process. I tend to look at the big picture. Call me crazy.
And how about the thousands that were killed by Hussein and his regime? *That* was intentional and mostly in a gruesome fashion.
As far as the Revolutionary War goes, you ever hear of, “no taxation without representation?” The antithesis of that would seem to be a very *liberal* idea. Liberals are always looking for ways to take the money I earn and give it to someone else who doesn’t even fucking deserve it in the first place.
Nice try at equating conservatism with tyranny, though. No Kewpie for you.
Anarchy in Iraq? Really? I thought it was just a group of cockroach-thugs trying to cause unrest in an otherwise moderately-functional country. (Albeit very young; Rome wasn’t built in a day, after all.) Silly me.
Their intention is to cause chaos, Kip. Anyone with an iota of common sense would know that. And they’re counting on people like you to call Iraq a quagmire so as to turn popular opinion around against the war. You know when this psycho-fuck enemy of ours is rooting for you, you should take a step back and examine your position very closely.
They’re not stupid. Backwards and evil, yes, but not stupid. This is as much a war of volition as anything else.
There’s no debate to be had; you liberals lost a long time ago. I’m basically done with you. Now it’s playtime. I like playtime.
Nothing else works with your kind anyway. We tried being nice. That really didn’t get us anywhere.
April 5th, 2007 at 1:49 pmKipp, you’re not worth responding to, you slimy fuckstick.
I’m getting ready for mini-boot camp this Friday and Saturday! Hoo-rah!
No doubt my asshole will be sucking buttermilk.
April 5th, 2007 at 2:25 pmYou forgot one indoctrination tool that has and is the key to the fascist success.
Public Education.
They have slowly infiltrated all of the public institutions of education over the last 50-60 years, thereby removing the need for future “re-education” by simply filling children’s heads with their poison from kindergarten on. Pick up a history book and see if the “facts” in it are the same as they were when you studied the same event 15 or 20 years ago. Our schools are the institutions that we must liberate first if we are going to turn this country around.
April 5th, 2007 at 3:16 pmHi Kip
I’m sorry to break this to you, but you’re unable to make a rational argument because you have no basis in facts. Primarily because you’re not right with yourself. Somewhere along the way you learned to redefine right and wrong in such a way that – in the moment - you are never wrong with yourself. You change the principles minute by minute to suit the circumstances so that your view is the only view. While you do self-contradict over longer periods of time, you’re OK with that because – again – you adjust the principles to the circumstances —- for you, that is acceptable. Proven in your reply and true to modern liberalism you have to tear others down to feel good about yourself.
Rummy is right (minus the #!*#$ ) – you’re not worth the time IF my objective is to debate on facts or principles. However, I do hold out hope for you, hence the reason I take the time.
I hold out hope because I believe you serve three purposes:
1- To demonstrate that there is no rational basis to debate on because Modern Liberalism does not have a standard or fixed set of principles.
2- To demonstrate how dangerous liberalism & MSM really is.
3- To one day act as a follower when the conservatives re-teach you to– like way back in your childhood – to accept right and wrong and live for fixed principles.
One thing I guarantee: You can argue your “points” all you want and claim, your reading and intelligence all you want. But you waste and ignore your god given talents because you lack results. THE BOTTOM LINE IS RESULTS, AND THE DEMOCRATS HAVE NO RESULTS - unless you want to call tearing down what is good a result! I just don’t get it….. With all your claimed smarts you choose to be a liberal? With all your smarts you choose to support democrats? Irrational!
Kindly,
April 5th, 2007 at 3:38 pmJ
I wonder how much longer before the democrat party will come out and say that the events of September 11, 2001 was a afigment of our imaginations?
April 5th, 2007 at 3:40 pmKipp,
You raise some valid points. Lest we forget “Come the hour, come the man”. Just one example of excellent Iraqi leadership from today…… found at the Opinion Journal.
(quote)For years, the tribes had supported the insurgents who claimed to be waging jihad. Now, citing the same religion, a tribe wanted to switch sides. Col. Mohammed, the battalion commander, accepted the offer. “The irhabi (terrorists) call themselves martyrs. They are liars,” he said. “I lost a soldier and when I pulled off his armor, there was the blood of a martyr.”
With Iraqi soldiers and Marines providing protection, the sheik and his tribesmen rolled through town, pointing at various men. The sweep netted 30 insurgents, including “Abu Muslim,” who was wanted for the murder of a jundi (Iraqi soldier). “He was just standing there waving at us with all the others,” one jundi said during the minor celebration at the detention facility.(end quote)
There are and will be many more Iraqi leaders coming to the fore and taking on the enemy in Iraq. Read Michael Yon he has mentioned quite a few over the past couple of years.
Von Clauswitz opined that war is a battle of will between commanders.
We will only lose this historic fight if we undermine the resolve of our leaders and Allies. This seems to be forgotten by the Left. Their actions and attitudes would see the US not only lose but withdraw to an isolationist stance and so imperil the entire Western Free World in the face of an unrelenting and vicious enemy.
We must be ever strong. War is hideously difficult and monstrously ugly but we must maintain our spirit or we will surely perish. We are at war in Iraq like it or not and we are drawing the enemy on to a battlefield of our own choosing…another fundamental of conducting a successful campaign. Oh, and we are winning, let’s get that straight and the vast majority of Iraqis support us.
We need to rally behind the President and our Allies and present a united front against our enemies. This the way forward, this is the way to succeed. Think WW2 and maintain a strong offensive spirit.
Mate you are more than half way to being a decent neocon. Keep questioning but never lose faith in your Country, your people or your duty. That’s the spirit that won the war.
God bless you Yanks.
Forever Allies.
Just a Digger.
April 5th, 2007 at 3:50 pmI don’t understand why there are not more conservatives in the repuplican party. For some reason the right has moved left and the left has become outrageous.
April 5th, 2007 at 3:53 pmPat Dollard is correct, liberal politicians have become facists, “do as i say not as i do because i know what is best for you!” If you don’t do what i say you shall be destroyed with emotional lies and rewritten history.
The right wing politicians need massive doses of testosterone and the cahonies to make it work.
For Kipp,
The labels and definitions we often use to describe political ideologies and/or social movements are not cast in stone. Such ‘labels’ can mean quite different things depending on what period of human history one is concerned with. Trying to refute someone else’s ‘analogy’ by quibbling over the ‘meaning’ of a particular label is, in fact, relying on a oversimplified ‘cast-in-stone’ interpretation of its’ meaning.
My very-brief ‘analogy’ with past struggles is thus: Israel is our modern version of Czechoslovakia - it would be just as deplorable to abandon them (the Israelis) now as it was to abandon the Czechs all those years ago. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan equates well with our past ‘evil’ ally the Soviet Union - we certainly can’t take on ‘everyone’ that conspires against us all at once. It is, in point of fact, a very long list of corrupt and oppressive regimes.
If I were you I would read the essay found at the link I previously provided:
http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2006-10-29-1.html
…before I commented here again.
April 5th, 2007 at 3:56 pmPat, can we maybe have less of rumsfeld47’s abusive comments “…you’re not worth responding to, you slimy f#@kstick”.
April 5th, 2007 at 3:59 pmI thought the conditions of the post were that we were to be respectful of others and their opinions? Although disagreeing with Kip, I do believe rumsfeld47’s abuse is not called for.
For fuck’s sake I forgot to add.
April 5th, 2007 at 3:59 pmGod bless you Pat Dollard.
You are a bloody legend mate and a tremendous fighter for right over wrong. No wonder the enemies of truth and decency detest you and seek to belittle you.
Keep up the good fight mate, stay strong, stay focussed.
The ancient Ronam Legions when they marched to war bore a banner proclaiming that respect is greater than love.
You Sir, have my respect and in the fullness of time your Nation will come to understand just how important your work is to the pursuit of freedom and right….albeit with plenty of fucking swearing!
Well done that man.
Take care.
Justadigger.
Ill chime in with EZRider.
Liberal, Secular, Progressive etc. its all spin that requies interpretation. Faschist might still be the right word. Evan Sayet differentiates using l & L for liberal & Modern Liberal. But this too is not intuitive - still requires explanation. Faschist might require a lot of explanation.
Thoughts I had were Hijacking Libs, Irrational Libs, Traitorous Libs, Heck i don’t know!
What we are dealing with is the Extreme Left that has become supported by the close-to-center leftists and they don’t realize it.
April 5th, 2007 at 4:03 pmThat’s right Rummy, you have to get beyond words longer than four letters to step up to intelligent dialogue. I do wish you and your brothers great success, though. Everyday I hope I am wrong about Iraq because I know the suffering these people have been subjected to for so long. I just don’t believe they have it in them as a people to rise to the occasion.
Iacubus:
Invasion/liberation…it really is a matter of semantics isn’t it? You are totally wrong however about freedom of speech. People can’t even cross into ethnic neighborhoods that they don’t belong. There is a mini version of ethnic cleansing that is happening despite the American presence.
“If I knew another country was coming to help my people out of the dark hole of oppression I’d be more than willing to stick it out, even it means I died in the process.”
I would be willing to take up arms against my oppressors if it happened in America I agree with you, but this is where Americans miss the mark everytime. Most Iraqis are not willing to assist the Americans. I have talked to dozens of veterans of the Iraq war and the one thing that is common among them is they say the Iraqis are two faced. They will say something to their face that is pleasant and then turn around and assist the insurgents. Even those in the army that are on our side can’t always be trusted. It is common practice for raids to be carried out along side the Iraqi soldiers and the Iraqis don’t have any idea where the raid is to take place because they can’t be trusted. These are our allies.
I am not a “johnny come lately” when it comes to the war in Iraq. I would tell anyone that listened prior to the invasion what would ensue. I have been dead on. It has drained our resources in what should have been our aim, to ram a pole up OBL’s ass. We should be using our military prowess to root out Al-Qaida in Afghanistan and Pakistan. We needed to make an example of them to show you don’t jack with us.
I would like you to explain how Iraq is a moderately functioning country. Mexico is a moderately functioning country in my mind. There are just a few countries in the world that function at a lower level than Iraq. Somalia comes to mind, Sierra Leone comes to mind. Moderately functioning…that is a good one.
The problem I have is not one supporter of the war can explain what success looks like in Iraq using only 150,000 US troops. America will never be able to solve the Sunni Shia divide. Heck the best news we have heard in sometime has come recently when the Sunni Sheiks of Al Anbar are now waging war against Al Qaida in Iraq. That is the Iraqi equivilent of black on black crime c:lol:
You do really need to study more history though. The American Revolution was born out of the Enlightenment and the Enlightenment was purely a liberal movement. I know it pains you Conservatives but sometimes the truth is painful. The whole issue of taxes in the war really didn’t work into your thesis. Once we got our Independence the new government got the majority of its revenue from tariffs and land sales, not direct taxation. If you want to have a discussion with me you better come with the M1A1 Abrams not the Whippet tank.
Again, I ask. Name one Iraqi leader who has the intellect or vigor that any American founding father had in our Revolution. Who has the fortitude to take the reigns in our absence? No one can answer this question. Until it is answered there is no hope of success in Iraq. It may be the Americans who have created the clay in Iraq, it is the Iraqis who must mold it.
Kipp
April 5th, 2007 at 4:12 pmKip:
It’s ironic. On a thread about Big Brother, the first thing you do is lie. “Pat says he will not let leftist postings stand.” Nowhere does it say that on this site. The discretionary ban on “inane leftist drivel” is a far cry from your Big Brother Spun claim. In your opening salvo, you simply proved what Pat said about you Leftists in the first place. Thanks for the Freudian Reveal.
Your background indicates a lot. Including perhaps, youthful exposure to strong anti-American propaganda and bias. If you’re going to lay claim to some special legitimacy due to direct exposure to Arab culture, then you’re going to have to lay claim to the clear possibility of that as well.
Your “systemic” solution is but a dressed-up rehash of the simplistic Fascist Left Propagand Whine: “Fighting the War on Terror can only legitimately be the direct pursuit of Osama and his crew. ” The enemy is greater than that, and supported by nations other than those you mentioned.
And the whole Saudi thing is just another way to criticize the Bush adminiatration. Even if there is a claim to attack Saudi Arabia, such a claim is not a credible en toto argument against actions fought elsewhere.
The whole Al-Qaeda piracy thing is just an hilarious redressing of the argument that terrorist acts are merely criminal acts, not acts of war. Props on creativity. The only point to make such arguments is to criticize the Right for it’s view of modern Jihadism, and how to deal with it. The only point is to counsel restraint from self-defense. And it’s starting to seem clear that the only point is for you to accidentally demonstrate that you do not honestly assess this war, but instead only want to wield Big Brother Speak about it as a weapon to bash your domestic political enemies.
Allow me to quote you: “Slnce when do we make it our business in defending Israel?” The only respect you are due on this one, is to be labeled a moron. Given that Israel is our only reliable ally in the region, as well as a rare beacon of democracy, we must make it our business to defend it. And long have. Once again you seem to accidentally be revealing your true Fascist Left nature: you have been brainwashed into hating Israel. You cannot think past the talking points beaten into your head. The fact that you cannot appreciate the intrinisic need to support a tiny democracy surrounded by tyrants, leaves me speechless.
Allow me to quote you again: ” For every person we kill in Iraq we create a host of people that never hated us that now do.” I’ll ignore the fact that that is a mathemitcally impossible claim. But even as a rhetorical point it falls apart, because it is impossible to prove in any regard. It is a theory. That’s all. It’s wishful thinking offered up as fact. What’s really scary here, is: why would you wish it? You will of course deny that you wish it, but your obvious hatred of Bush makes it clear that you wish it to be true. As well as your obvious hope that America suffers defeat in this war.
I could go on, but your post grows tedious. But hey, thank you for so clearly demonstrating the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of the team you claim your own: the American Left. So far, demonstrating that, is your best purpose here.
April 5th, 2007 at 4:16 pm“Doctavian
Dear Pat,
You are so right. America’s left are not liberals. A keystone of true liberalism is that the expression of opinions from both sides of all issues should be encouraged.
Today’s American socialists like Germany’s socialists (of the 1930s) despise the concept of free expression of ideas.
The word NAZI of course is a contraction of the German phrase “The National Socialist party“.
A couple of months ago America’s leftists held a conference to try and find a way to “return free speech” to America’s radio stations. Don’t you love the way that leftists always use Orwellian New Speak to try and hide the truth.
Now you have added your voice to those trying to get the truth out.
They will despise you for it. But in the end we will win. Because as Bill Bennett told me, “They have their right to their opinions. But they don’t have the right to change the facts.”
Point well made,
Doctavian”
Doctavian, please do not smear the perfectly good national socialist party by comparing them with our democrats of today (just a little humor, they did plenty of bad). But just imagine terrorism vs. Nazi’s, oh that would be a fun one to watch. It would never happen, they would probably have done like Pershing, wash the bullets in pigs blood and bury the terrorists with pig entrails, no more 70 virgins in paradise.
April 5th, 2007 at 4:51 pmKipp
So What would you do about your claimed lack of leadership in Iraq Govt?
Perhaps you feel its a lost cause. Right?
April 5th, 2007 at 5:10 pmDestroyer666:
Hmmm…I guess Satan is your co-pilot.
“Your background indicates a lot. Including perhaps, youthful exposure to strong anti-American propaganda and bias. If you’re going to lay claim to some special legitimacy due to direct exposure to Arab culture, then you’re going to have to lay claim to the clear possibility of that as well.”
Actally, I upheld the wonders of America in my contact with the Arabs. At every turn they tried to convert me to Islam which I avoided. The religion is a bit too strict for my tastes. I was even offered a choice of one father’s eight daughters if I converted. You need a strong will there, huh?
It is amazing how even the far right, like the far left reduces itself to name calling and labeling when making an argument. I simply let my intellect do the talking. Most Arabs I came across had great admiration for America. This was in 1988-90. Most wanted to come here and live. Bush is doing his damnest to ruin that feeling. If you don’t think the Arab mind has changed collectively in its view of America in the past six years you are living in a dream world. The problem is not as much the invasion of Iraq as this administrations inability to carry it out. If you have even moderately been keeping up with the war you are some kind of sycophant if you don’t recognize the utter incompetance in which these guys have initiated this war.
The whole Saudi thing? It was Saudis that flew the planes into the WTC. You are aware whether you are talking about the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, or the WTC attack you are dealing with Sunnis, right? The “other” countries you are saying I left out would be what? Syria. I’m sorry I left out Syria.
You say I equate piracy to a “criminal act”. We have gone to war over such Muslim “criminal acts” before you know. (see war against the Barbary Pirates circa 18th-19th centuries).
I do not hate Israel. But it is high time they stand on their own. In doing so they may just make decisions that better reflect the desires of their people. Outside of a nuclear exchange Israel isn’t going anywhere and they have thwarted nations seeking nuclear weapons before, right. Besides, if a nation uses nuclear weapons in the Middle East you can pretty much say that the world will change on that day.
Why would you assert that I wish for Arabs to hate us. I in fact wish the opposite. Why would I want anyone to hate the nation I so deeply love and served.
What you so neglect is the fact this administration has responded to the 9-11 attacks in an irrational manner. The problem may be bigger than Al Qaida but killing OBL would have been a hell of a statement that we mean business.
What frustrates you is I don’t speak like your stereotypical Liberal. The fact that I come to this site frequently and fully read what Pat has to say, and agree with some of it should be enough to cause you to pause. The fact that I have had four veterans of the Iraq War come into my classroom to speak about their experiences should cause you to pause. The fact that I don’t confine myself to the far left mantra should cause you to pause.
I have spent hours reading the posts on this site and thought it was time that someone who has a different view on how this war should be fought other than the suicidal nature we are currently waging it would create dialogue. I was correct.
April 5th, 2007 at 5:34 pmJohn,
Until we have that, Iraq is unwinable, yes.
April 5th, 2007 at 5:36 pmEveryone should remember what Kipp said about his past, and part of the reason he says we should listen to him, rather than draw our own conclusions.
“I spent two years in the mountains of Yemen. I was the only Westerner in the village I lived in and as a teacher I was surrounded by Arabs who made up most of the nations in the Middle East. Many of my fellow teachers were Palestinian.”
Though he does say he spent a month with a former Israeli special ops type, it sounds as though his two years in Yemen and his time with the Palestinian teachers influenced him more than his time with the Israeli.
There is a not-so-subtle hint of the dictator’s double-speak in his rhetoric. This country is so bad, not only can we not save it, it isn’t worth saving in the first place. The people are backward, hateful, deceitful, and unsalvageable. So go back, U.S., go back and sit in front of your idiot-boxes and playstations and forget about Iraq. Let it all go straight to Hell.
April 5th, 2007 at 5:38 pmKipp
April 5th, 2007 at 5:43 pmSo you mean to say we can’t leave.
Well darn, Kipp, since that ol’ Muslim fellow offered you one of his dear daughters you can’t be all THAT bad!
April 5th, 2007 at 5:51 pmKipp,
sounds like you were in the peace corps in yemen? anyways though you may be fluent in arabic are you also fluent in Islam? from all your arguments you seem to do just what most liberals seem to do with regard to the war on terror: ignore islam.
The war on terror is a PC way of saying we are fighting back against the Islamic injunction to slay the unbelievers wherever you find them (sura 9:5) the verse of the sword so often quoted by terrorists such as osama. “I will be made Victorious with terror…” is another line where we get the term terrorist from since it is what Islam uses when it wants to force people to submit to islamic law . Conversion, submission or death are the calling cards of Islam made first to the Qurayash tribe of mecca in 628 and made to the rest of us throughout history ever since.
This war includes every muslim country and every muslim. what we have done is forced the hand of moderate or liberal muslims to confront the demons of Islam that they have long since tried to suppress.
You are right we have brought more terrorists into the fold, but we have also brought many more people to defend western values such as myslef. Liberals in america and europe are caught between a rock and a hard place , because while you promote tolerance as the highest virtue, you tolerate some of the most intolerant people on the planet. In fact george Bush, and the neo cons are far more liberal than the ideology of islam is or ever has been.
You idea that american colonialist were liberals is true, but not in the sense you suggest. They defended freedom , a liberal idea opposed to tyranny.
Freedom in islam (al-hurriyat)is given a mark of evil because it allows for the human individual to perhaps break outside the sacred limits at the expense of the umma(community). It is a collective ideology very much similar to stalinism, which is also a reason why modern day liberals are not really liberals in the true sense because they have become totalitarian stalinists in nature. it is their way or the highway and they disguise it as “what the people want”. Bush is fighting for our continued freedom and the “liberals ” are fighting for, perhaps unknowingly, our own bondage to a taotalitarian form of governance under islam that is comparable to the baser forms of communism known to us in North korea and the baser forms of Democracy known to us in Iraq under saddam.
If you want to know a leader who could take Iraq to freedom I give you any number of Kurdish leaders who propose a secular government comparable to turkey, or specifically Iraqi MP and Imam Iyad Jamal Al-din. He has many video’s on You tube where he seems to understand the idea of liberal democracy, meaning freedom, that Iraqis , particularly muslims have never known.
Google search this man and you will see that their are visionaries in Iraq who can see them through this turmoil.
April 5th, 2007 at 5:57 pmThis is what we get when Michael Moore’s legions take over the Congress. Some conservatives decided they didn’t think that Republicans were conservative enough, so they decided to boycott the election. While the Republicans weren’t perfect, they still knew that the war must be recognized and supported. Well if the DNC hasn’t invited the entire Islamic terrorist network into America by ‘08, for a ‘dialog’ on world peace, we gotta throw them out with a resounding tally. If the sheeple elect Hillary, Obama, or any other member of the jackass party, we’re in deep shit.
April 5th, 2007 at 6:20 pmSooner or later they’re gonna push us to the breaking point, and then it’ll be time for the great exile/banishment of the anti-American left.
April 5th, 2007 at 6:23 pmLiberals are fucked if there’s a civil war. Their “enlightened” ideology ( feminine nature? ) keeps them from getting guns. So we’re fully amed, and they aren’t. Go ahead bitches, keep making our day
April 5th, 2007 at 6:36 pmMelissa,
I can’t really apologize for swearing and telling someone to fuck off–have you watched any of the videos on this site? I suppose you could argue that I’m not allowed to swear like a Marine until I become one, but please…
Pat himself called Barbara Walters a whore in the TITLE of one of his stories. Not so intelligent people on this very site have said we should “take Nancy Pelosi out, one shot, one kill.”
I have a rich vocabulary but I believe in choosing words that are accurate. In this case, “slimy fuckstick” is definitely the most accurate way to describe Kipp, who
1. has far too much time on his hands
2. cannot post an idea in less than 2,000 words
3. thinks his shit doesn’t stink
4. is exactly the kind of pseudo-intellectual who will get us all killed
It is quite unreasonable to single me out. If you’ve got a problem with bad words, I think you need to scope out a different blog!
April 5th, 2007 at 6:47 pmTJ,
Great post. This is the kind of dialogue I seek. No name calling. You even have me pegged. I was a Peace Corps Volunteer in Yemen. I partied with many a jarhead in Sana’a.
I have said what Bush has intended to do is a Liberal policy. Many of my liberal friends think I am nuts but it is true.
About the Quran, like the Bible evil men can call quotes to serve their purpose and we know there are plenty of bad guys in the Islamic World. The Quran also says the Christians are the closest in love to Muslims and the Jews are farthest away. This is the quote I chose to use as I made my way through Yemeni society. It always worked like a charm.
I found that traveling through the Islamic world the true moderates were few and far between. In a crisis area like Iraq, the conflict breeds radicals not moderates. This is why the war without true local moderate leadership is a lost cause.
“In fact george Bush, and the neo cons are far more liberal than the ideology of islam is or ever has been.”
This simply proves my point. I whole heartedly agree with you. Many on the liberal side call Bush evil. That is false. Al-Qaeda is evil. The big problem I have with Bush is he did not understand the enemy. This is not a man who sat down and read the history of Iraq while he was pondering war. This was not a man who brought in Iraqis to the Oval Office and sat down with them for hours discussing their modern history. It’s a shame.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=phTAaSs-Ryk
Just viewed the above site you mentioned on Youtube. Love what he is saying. He is dead on but don’t you feel he is shouting in the wind. Do you think most MPs speak up like he does? I doubt it. If Iraqis felt the way he does then Cheney would have been right. I would be chomping on candy right now. It kills me we throw so much money into Iraq and we have so little to show from it. It bothers me greatly when vets say they can’t trust the Iraqi soldiers they go into battle with.
You also mentioned Kurdish leaders. Well Kurdistan really doesn’t care what the Arabs in Iraq do. Their whole outlook is “stay down there and kill each other, just leave us alone”. You know that. Those Kurds, and there is not a lot of them, who are part of the current surge really don’t want to be there. Many don’t speak Arabic very well and their hearts aren’t in it.
“This war includes every muslim country and every muslim. what we have done is forced the hand of moderate or liberal muslims to confront the demons of Islam that they have long since tried to suppress.”
In reality, the incompetance of the Bush leadership in Iraq has driven more Muslims to despise us and what we stand for. If he would have fought the war properly from the beginning things could have been very different.
It’s a shame.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:08 pmRumsfeldt47
1. As a teacher I have a three day holiday to honor Christ.
2.My posts are long because I like to give people the respect of debating adequately their posts.
3.I don’t have an unusually high regard for myself. Just solid opinions
4. Actually at the rate “Sir bombs alot” is going, you won’t need me to get us all killed.
Bad words don’t bother me in the least. I prefer not to use them as a guest on this site. As I said, I agree with a lot Dollard says. Deadwood is probably my favorite show on TV.
How’s that for a short post?
April 5th, 2007 at 7:19 pmKipp - “In reality, the incompetance of the Bush leadership in Iraq has driven more Muslims to despise us and what we stand for. If he would have fought the war properly from the beginning things could have been very different.”
It always goes back to being Bush’s fault. If some of these people, any of them, hated us before Bush got in office is that still Bush’s fault? They did, and they attacked. I will remind you, again, of the 1993 WTC attack and the USS Cole. Both of these attacks were under Clinton.
The last part I do agree with. We should have gone in there with guns blazing and locked everyone down. We should have never put handcuffs on our troops so they could do their job. Hell, I think we would be a lot further along if political bullshit wouldn’t get in the way like the left making sure we treat them like they are our equals. They are not. We keep abiding by the Geneva Convention and they chop off heads and show it on CNN.
Every day on the MSM we hear about how many troops died, how many of our helicopters were shot down and by who but they NEVER say anything about what the other side’s casualties are or what good we are doing. Just tonight on NBC Nightly News they had to stress how thinly stretched the US military is. If that is not emboldening the enemy I don’t know what is.
If the Democrats get back in the White House in the next election, I promise you the MSM will start talking about how great things are and all of the “postive impact” they are making despite Bush’s “failed tactics”.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:25 pmI propose now , not sooner or later.
That now we begin ….
…. to hold the reflection of the Modern Lib Dems up to every American. If we could show them in their true actions and lack of results effectively Modern Liberalism will die by its own doing.
We are at the tipping point because they’ve completed the ModLib Cloning machine - our schools.
We have to stop trying to rationalize with the ModLibs and devote all effort to show and know every single one of them for what they really are. All we need to do is show it and bring attention to it!
Easier said than done but its a more efficient use or our time than rationalizing with that which is not rational - not principled - not living to a standard of right & wrong.
Take KIPP for example.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:28 pmHe tries to make a case that there are more terrorists now and that they hate us more.
Then he tries to make a case that its a lost cause and we should give up.
No, he doesn’t take a problem and look for a solution - he just wants to give up - to surrender to those he admits wants to kill us.
Kipp - “4. Actually at the rate “Sir bombs alot” is going, you won’t need me to get us all killed.”
Who do you mean by this? Bush? If so, that is hilarious. We use precise, guided bombs we spend a lot of research time and money on to insert surgically. They use crude, home made vests strapped to the bodies of women and children that kills indiscriminately. No matter which one is used, Bush still gets blamed. Imagine a world without the US… I don’t want to.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:31 pmKipp,
I’m glad you at least support some sort of retaliation for 9/11…even though most of your fellow lefties don’t.
But as far as your point on creating “more people that hate the U.S.” when we kill a jihadi in Iraq…it just seems crazy to me, man.
So, you’re telling me, if our boys intercept a VBIED on his way to a crowded Baghdad market(to blow up Iraqi civilians) & give him a fair dosage of lead in his brain housing group…we’re making more “ordinary Iraqis who wouldn’t dream of attacking the U.S.”
…want to attack the U.S. ? When in fact many lives were saved by killing this individual?
I really, really want to understand your logic on this…
Matt
April 5th, 2007 at 7:47 pmMy friends, you’re wasting your valuable time debating with a fucktard, but it’s your time, not mine.
Kipp brings new meaning to the term “useful idiot.”
April 5th, 2007 at 7:50 pm…I detect the presence of… the always misleading, perpetually condescending… professional “seminal” liberal-intellectual ‘political-officer’. This is exactly what I anticipated would happen here after Rush introduced this website to his substantial audience.
Mr. Dollard, It was an interesting ‘experiment’ to let this go all day - but I, with all sincerest humility, suggest you pull-the-plug on ‘Mr.’ Kipp - block him. Another one of the Left’s ‘political-officers’ will, sad to say, soon emerge to take his place.
–
As for rumsfeld47’s sometimes flamboyant writing ’style’… profanity is a completely legitimate form of expression as far as I’m concerned - Rock on!
Anyone who is under about 45-years of age is well acquainted with the more ‘colorful’ expressions in the English language. We have all used and/or heard them many times before - remember who we all were in High School?
April 5th, 2007 at 7:59 pmKipp - You are very communicative, which is more than I can say for any liberal or Democrat that I know. Most just spew MSM talking points and refuse to listen to anything else and can’t engage in real debate. With that said, I haven’t read any alternative to what is currently going on where you offer a 100% guaranteed chance of success. Can you tell me what you would do, if you were in power, that would guarantee success?
I will give you an example I came up with on my own, though friends told me they heard this on some talk show so I guess similar minds think alike. I will also use harsh language. Please keep in mind this is just an exercise and I am not really threatening you so in reality you are very safe.
I am going to take your wallet and everything in it. I want it, and no matter what you want, say, or do I am going to take it. I will do everything I can to get it and nothing you can do will stop me from trying. I will succeed and I will get your wallet.
If I have to, I will take you outside and beat the fuck out of you until I get it. You can fight me all you want but I will continue to beat your head into the ground until I get that wallet. I will use anything around me at my disposal, even if I have to tie you to a tree and beat your family members in the face with my bare fists while you watch. I am going to succeed in getting your wallet and all of its contents no matter what you do and I don’t really care if you die in the process. End of story. What are you going to do about it?
The way I am presenting this to you will give you time to think about it and construct a well thought out reply. We don’t have that luxury.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:11 pmThanks, Daniel. I couldn’t agree with you more. I think I’d go blind reading all of Fucktard’s words, and I’d go insane trying to make sense of them. A cursory glance is all that is needed to know that there is no point in engaging this “useful idiot.”
I love it when people call me unintelligent. And try to tell me I have a small dick. They make me laugh, really, really long; long and hard, in fact.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:17 pmSpeaking of long and hard, KNUT THE BEAR (hoo-rah!) is getting his freak on. Click my name for the link.
GET SOME, LITTLE BUDDY! GET SOME!
April 5th, 2007 at 8:18 pmDaniel— I am no left political officer. I don’t listen to left wing radio, don’t subscribe to the useless moveon.org. I am just a thinking person. I haven’t said one thing about voting for Democrats because some of them are as useless as some of the Republicans. It is a shame you are not willing to engage someone who speaks from the left but doesn’t fit the mold of most Liberals. Pull the plug you say. The dialogue I have broght about here today has been interesting. I have read everyone and I think there are some thinking people in here. I have been reading this website before Limbaugh drew attention to it. It seems the weakest intellectually among you wish to simply pull the plug instead of formulate a thoughtful paragraph.
Matt— I am not saying that our armed forces shouldn’t blast the crap out of anyone who attacks them. I am saying we shouldn’t have invaded Iraq in the first place. Our resources should have gone elsewhere. Hell I’m not averse to telling Pakistan they have x amount of time to turn over OBL or we will turn Waziristan into glass if we are sure he is there. Any nation that harbors him should pay the ultimate price. How about that for Liberal thought!!!!
“It always goes back to being Bush’s fault. If some of these people, any of them, hated us before Bush got in office is that still Bush’s fault? They did, and they attacked. I will remind you, again, of the 1993 WTC attack and the USS Cole. Both of these attacks were under Clinton.”
Clinton was an idiot for not taking OBL out when he had the chance. But you have to remember Clinton did not have 9/11. In no way am I blaming Bush for 9/11 but I certainly blame Bush for attacking Iraq in its wake and that was a huge mistake. A complete and utter waste of American resources.
If we hadn’t invaded Iraq we would be in a much better position to stare down Iran which posses a much bigger threat than Iraq ever could. Just read Pat’s posts on this site.
Greg—
“Imagine a world without the US… I don’t want to.”
I don’t want to imagine a world without the US. It is the greatest nation in the world. I owe everything I have to it and those who have served in Her defense. I love those guys who walk the line in Falluja and Ramadi, in Baghdad and in Mosul, at Iwo and Bastogne, at Gettysburg and Princeton. Though I think the war in Iraq is misguided, I would not choose any other army in the world to try to make democracy happen in Iraq. It is not America I don’t have faith in, it is the Iraqis. After four years of conflict they have shown me very little.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:29 pmKipp - Ok, I don’t understand you then. You say you are a liberal and or leftist, and then you say you subscribe to some of the right’s ideas.
Maybe you are making that shift to the right but have not yet put the pieces together for your own ‘ah HA!’ moment that woke other leftists up? I don’t get it.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:37 pmHey, Slimy Fuckstick–can you post in less than 2000 words? I mean, your keyboard has to be exhausted. Think of the space key, man; it needs a break.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:42 pmWhat if Kipp’s space bar could talk?
“Oh my God! When is this useful fucktard going to stop writing? Jesus Christ, he gets three days off for Easter, comes home, and beats me all day long! For God’s sake, I hope he looks at porn soon, ’cause mouse over there deserves some abuse too–but I can barely get any rest with all that clicking! Dear Lord, make the inane leftist drivel STOP!”
April 5th, 2007 at 8:51 pmKipp…
I think you just side stepped my Question? Trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here…but it seems you need to at least resign your position that we are “creating” more terrorists by killing existing terrorists…
Think about it…
“Haji A” says: “Hey, that Marine just shot that guy shouting allah ockbarr in the face! …wait a minute, that’s the same guy that was terrorizing my neighborhood last week, threatening to slaughter anyone who opposes al quaeda w/a butcher’s tools….so that Marine just did us a favor…
but, what the heck, I’m gonna take up arms against the U.S. now…why not?”
ummmmm — no.
The Iraqi people aren’t stupid. They know who the oppressors and who the liberators are at this point in the war….remember Saddam’s news network isn’t on the air anymore!
April 5th, 2007 at 8:52 pmJesus, I hope we’re creating more terrorists in Iraq. There won’t be anyone left for me to shoot by the time I get there!
April 5th, 2007 at 8:54 pmKip:
Your drivel is dressed up, and you do a good job of disguising your anti-Bush obsession as merely thoughtful critique on the war in Iraq. But I’m not buying your propaganda, just because it’s in a monkey suit.
You wear your ego on your sleeve. “Your not used to a liberal who talks like me…” First of all that’s an arrogantly assumptive projection, and second of all, it’s a rankly self-serving compliment - you apparently feel you speak in a manner elevated above other liberals. The reality is, you’re just tossing out the same old ant-Bush, anti-war talking points with a different tone. Less screech doesn’t equate to a difference in content.
You create clever sounding, but ultimately laughable talking points: “Can you name an Iraqi leader whose like and American founding father?” This is setting the stage for the equivalent of a 3rd Grader’s logic, which of course, is finally exposed for it’s complete lack of sophistication and any sustainable merit. How is it exposed for such? Because the conclusion of your argument is that any country that doesn’t have a leader who meets some vague and subjective definition of “George Washington-like”, is a country that is not ready for democracy. That position is nothing short of insane.
Good use of language is no substitute for good ideas. Although it can provide for a nice shell game.
You also slickly try to claim that Pat’s posts make the argument that we shouldn’t have gone into Iraq because Iran is the much bigger threat. I haven’t found him state or even imply that. You are projecting your own wishful thinking onto his posts, I suppose. I can do it too: Thank God we went into Iraq, because if we hadn’t, Saddam would today be in a nuclear arms race with Achmedinejad, and we’d be facing two terrorist sponsoring states with nukes instead of one. Just read Pat’s posts.
I like how you blame George Bush and America for spreading terrorism, and not the terrorists. Shameless. Yes, you talk a good game, and say you’d support bombing Pakistan. And maybe you would,, as long as George Bush wasn’t the one who ordered it. Then you’d denounce it.
Oh, and yeah, Syria is the only country to worry about besides Afghanistan and Pakistan. Well done.
“It’s high time Israel stands on it’s own”. You talk out of both sides of your mouth, and that’s your game. “I don’t hate Israel” Anyone who claims not to hate Israel but wants them, one of our key allies, to hang out to dry on their own, is a double talking bullshit artist. No ally is ever, EVER, at the point that they should be left to stand on their own. And that’s your game. You want people to believe you’re thoughtful and objective so you can piecemeal insert propaganda soundbiets without being dismissed out of hand as just another Bush hating Lefty who wants us to lose in Iraq. Yeah, yeah, you’re really a tough thinking guy who wants to bomb pakistan. Nice disguise. But your beard is falling off.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:57 pmWhat the hell were people thinking when they elected the democrats to power? Oh wait… they weren’t. The leftist msm has created mindless zombies that will do and believe anything the leftist fascist party says.
Henry Luce the fascist founder of Time, Life, and Fortune magazines, I think expressed well the role he thought the msm should take in controlling the masses when he coined the phrase “the masses are asses”. He believed it is the presses role to influence and mold people in a way that he or any other controlling body saw fit in order to gain power and influence over the people, which is exactly what the leftist msm is doing today to gain power. Many people have been so brain washed by the leftist msm today that their power of reason has essentially been stripped from them and replaced with blind stupidity.
John in PA proposed we should “hold the reflection of the Modern Lib Dems up to every American. If we could show them in their true actions and lack of results effectively Modern Liberalism will die by its own doing.” I think his premise here is good natured but it’s flawed in its very nature. The msm puts it out there every day for every American to see, but many Americans can’t see it because they have already been blinded by the foolish BS rhetoric the msm has feed them day in and day out. Me, John, Pat, and probably all of you can see the BS the msm feeds the masses, but the masses simply can not see it. How do you show someone that can’t or perhaps is unwilling to see?
All I know is that unless things change dramatically, some day the camels back is gona break in America and shit’s gona hit the fan.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:00 pmGreg— First off I am a private school teacher who currently has one dollar in my wallet so jokingly my initial reaction would be to give it to you.
But for the sake of argument if I had it in my power I would probably physically stop you. For example, if I had my Lee-Enfield that is sitting next to me loaded you might have a hard time grabbing my wallet and your brains.
This gets back to my main thesis I have been presenting all day. I would shoot you (OBL) or those who are with you (Al-Qaida). I am not going to shoot the guy who lives next door to you that looks like you and sorta acts like you. (SH and Iraq)
If I was leader in 2000 here is what I would do after 9/11. This is not hind sight either. This is what I told those around me at the time what we should do.
First I would have dispatched the Marines to Afghanistan to bolster the actions of Special Ops. They would have been crucial in cutting off excape routes of Al Qaida. I then would have used the sympathy of the world after 9/11 to mobilize against OBL. (This part is what Bush did that I whole heartedly agreed with). Next I would have personally gone to each Middle Eastern country and stressed the urgency the US views the current crisis. I speak Arabic so that would have been a very interesting event, don’t you think?
Then I would have gone to Israel and informed them they are going to make peace with Palestine and will honor the 1948 UN resolution. The Golan Heights however will be internationalized. From this point we will promise that if any Arab state attacks Israel again the US will consider it an act of war. Once this is leveraged, we would then begin to assist the Palestinians in rebuilding the West Bank and Gaza. I promise you, this process would go much smoother in Palestine than we could ever dream of it going in Iraq. Palestine is the cornerstone of begining a democritization of the Middle East. People forget that the rash of suicide bombings in Israel did not proliferate until the US disengaged from the peace process when Bush came into office. His disengagement from the peace process is what heightened tensions between the two sides.
Throughout this process, I would begin a NASA like program to move the US off its dependence on oil. I would force Saudi Arabia to renounce terror, not just among the Saudi royalists but among their religious leaders. If they failed I would blockade the whole damn country and I would use their citizens that attacked the WTC as a justification. I would demand they shut down their madrassas around the world until the textbooks are void of hate and their classes are purely spiritual.
Next I would end French and German language instruction in American schools and replace them with Arabic and Chinese. I would use a teacher exchange program to make up for the shortfall in language instructors.
This would be a good start, don’t you think?
April 5th, 2007 at 9:07 pmDaniel…. Kudos for the link to that wise essay… I applaude you….. TO bad the “left” are too caught up in their own world to listen… if only for a few minutes..
April 5th, 2007 at 9:11 pmHey, Pat,
I must be VERY difficult to be the partisan hack you are, particulalry since the last election. Keep siding with the military industrial complex, it suits you well.
Yer just like all the idiots STILL believe oswald killed JFK, even as our assassination committee there was no “lone gunman”…keep it up…it may take thirty or forty years, but i know you are so anti-american it makes people in the know sick.
liberals = fascists…since when…your “sources”, or your handlers are really shovelling shit in your mouth man….
i notice fox news has referenced you as of late, which confirms your shill presence getting aquainted with the ground zero of american propaganda.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:21 pmKipp…. And please if you precede your comments with Kipp the Dip please add two p’s to dip. Thanks,
Kipp
I gotta admit, that was funny….
April 5th, 2007 at 9:22 pmKipp - “Greg— First off I am a private school teacher who currently has one dollar in my wallet so jokingly my initial reaction would be to give it to you.”
You just surrendered. You gave up. You didn’t even fight for what was yours. You didn’t even try. All of that other shit you talked about doesn’t matter to me because I now control you. The next time I want your wallet I will come back to you and know I can get it again, even easier next time because the last time you gave up without a fight.
By the way, my name on here is “Greg - USA” so please start using that so people don’t get confused who you are referring to.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:30 pmThanks Dennis I did get a good chuckle from that.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:57 pmKipp,
Just do a cursory search online and you will find that since Jan 2005 there have been more than 5000 Iraqi Police and Military deaths. These are the people that are stepping up to help us secure their country. These people know that they are signing a death warrent for themselves and their families when they volunteer, but they do it anyway. These numbers are from a study done by The Lancet, Britan’s parallel to the JAMA and New England Medical Journal.
April 5th, 2007 at 10:06 pmSeymour Glass
Thanks for your drivel - its hard to discern what you are really saying. Perhaps you’re middle of the road and only think you’re associating with faschists?
OOPS: now I understand…..
If you think Fox News is propaganda then you have to be a faschist. Only a far left faschist lib would call it propaganda.
Have a good day & smile some time.
April 5th, 2007 at 10:09 pmKipp… There were to links posted on here (way at the top), one you promised to read, and I hope you do. The other was
http://www.thomaspmbarnett.com/published/pentagonsnewmap.htm
posted by Steve in NC. This link will give you the reason why Iraq. It is written by a US Naval War College Professor, which I’m almost positive you will automatically regard it as too conservative for your views, however it definitely makes sense. Please take the time to read and reflect on both of these links. I think you may find your answer….
April 5th, 2007 at 10:09 pmI don’t know much, but I do know this. If Islamofacism is allowed to flourish we will all be subject to Sharia law and all of these Liberals will be the first to die. They will get rid of anyone who could harm them including those who “helped” them gain power. This war is not political to them or even ideological, it is religious and to them it is about their eternal soul. They will not sacrifice that for anyone or anything and will either force the infidel to god or kill or enslave us. I am not fond of either alternative.
April 5th, 2007 at 10:14 pmKipp - “…It is a shame you [Daniel] are not willing to engage someone who speaks from the left but doesn’t fit the mold of most Liberals. Pull the plug you say. The dialogue I have bro[u]ght about here today has been interesting.” - April 5th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
Yes, after 74 YEARS of this (1933-2007) in America - I would have to say “Pull-the-plug.”
April 6th, 2007 at 12:01 amSorry Rumsfeld47 to ruffle your feathers. You are right-I went to this page from a link from another site, and didn’t look at the rest of the site before posting. My mistake. Just looking for other people who share my world view (concern for the lack of conservative values and sick of the liberals’ tirades against common sense).
April 6th, 2007 at 1:16 amKipp
the problem with your analysis is that it is too simplistic and doesnt dig deep enough into the nature of the terrorist mindset. For them Islam is everything, I still think you dismiss the islamic implications in all of this.
Plus you have focused on osama bin laden, though he is the leader, he is , like george bush, replaceable, he is not a warrior, he is a mind and he has money which we have sought to take from him. he really isnt that important. Alqaeda is another PC term for islamists. It must be alluded too so people dont think we are at war with Islam. The implications of such would not bode well for the welfare of muslims who wish to live in peace like we do. (I know a few myself)
I dont doubt your experience with the yemenese was enriching and that you made good friends as long as your own religious or irreligious beliefs didnt come up. This is the crux of the difference between Islam today and any other religion. You can not disagree with the clerical bodies. Also Islam, historians agree is distinct from other religions by the fact that they have no rule of general beneficience, in other words, they do not follow the golden rule:”do unto others as you would have them do to you. Countless suras and hadith suggest to believers that unbelievers including christians and jews(the people of the book) are not to be trusted, demeaned, despised and never ever loved. Despite the various meccan suras that indeed show some universal virtues , they are abrogated by the later medinan suras including the verse of the sword (9:5).
please know that many muslims arent aware that the Koran is not written in the order of original recitation , rather the writers placed them in order of length. 9:5 otherwise would be the last chapter. abrogation is spoken of in Sura 2:105.
” Whatever verses we cancel or cause you to forget, we bring a better or its like.”
this kind of tenet is un heard of in the bible or any other religious text because it ultimately renders earlier texts in the book in applicable and thus not inspired , yet muslims still quote “there is no compulsion in religion” or the idea that christians are their brothers in the faith. Incidentally a christian is defined as one who doesnt speak of the trinity according to muslims , in other words they are like jehovah witnesses or muslims themselves. Christians like a mericans are thus viewed as polytheists like the arabians before Muhammed massacred them.
Abrogation, as taught in sunni and shia islam, can cancel peaceful texts that PC muslims often quote as proof of a peaceful islam.
because you lack an understanding of some of the very basic tenets of islam you have a very short sighted view of how to handle isrel. hamas, the governing islamic body, has no interest in peace with israel. Jews are not to be trusted and are to be killed and muslim law does not allow for lands once conquered by Islam to switch over to non believers. they will fight until all the jews are out, therefore, for democracy to survive there Israel must stay.
dont down play the leadership of this iraqi MP, he amazes me , because what he says is so contrary to the going rhetoric of muslims clerics today. it is bold and dangerous as well. Their are Iraqis that admire him for this because he has the courage to stand up to the jihadis much like pervez musharef in pakistan.
The reason we didnt invade pakistan was because pervez decided to play ballwith us to save his own country. He knows full well many jihadis come from his country as do many come from iran. problem with iran is that their is a great number of iranian dissenters and I dont doubt we would prefer a coup to take place and it could there. People grew too afraisd of saddam to ount any substantial attack on him. Iraq was an easier target and a good start to work on iran and syria from there.
Bush has made many mistakes, but I know for a fact he has many iraqi advisors on this. the problem is because of Islam we dont know who to trust because in islam , muhammed allowed followers to make friends with unbelievers in order to guard themselves against them. I believ that is in sura 2:28?and 5:51.
Anyways,
I realize you have an experienctial education as do I. I have lived in west africa and korea. I have also been to israel, bosnia and the UAE. I have muslim friends but very few and they are ignorant of their faith in many ways, and todays liberals are the same, yet they seem to choose it.
I suggest you start reading about islam including the quran and sunnah. I will suggest a great reading that comiles alot of previous research into one long volume. Its called “Why i am not a muslim.” by IBN Warraq ISBN 0-87975-984-4 It will help round out your experience and help you connect the dots in our present situation.
take it easy
April 6th, 2007 at 3:22 amMelissa, I wasn’t ruffled by your appeal for decorum. I just enjoy fuckin’ cussing, that’s all. If I moderated the comments, I’d clean up a lot of stuff, especially anything that resembled right-wing poetry with Biblical overtones. God, I can’t stand that stuff.
For what it’s worth, I’m a 24 year old former classical musician; I used to play, sing, and conduct Bach. Now I just listen (currently to the St. Matthew Passion, conducted by Paul McCreesh is the best recording ever, BTW. It has HUGE NUTS. You won’t be disappointed if you listen to it.)
April 6th, 2007 at 4:22 amAnd I’m a devout Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LCMS, baby!) Lutheran. German. Conservative. Trained in Shakespeare (won’t tell the Marines about that one, might disqualify my ass!)
April 6th, 2007 at 4:39 amKipp - regardless of your leftist views, I appreciate your discussion. Unfortunately, you’re a rarity (sp?) of the Left. The majority of the left doesn’t debate, they don’t listen, they don’t use intelligible arguments. Instead they rant, they criticize, and they radicalize.
Now to the rebuke. Your view of Israel is way off. Clinton botched the peace accords in the late 90s. His vain, half-assed effort at Isreali-Palestinian peace was his attempt at securing his own posterity. Madeline Half-Brite’s brilliant foreign policy further crippled the peace because she abandoned Israel for Bosnia in 2000. And to think, that’s right about the time suicide bombings picked up… Isreal’s last chance at peace was when Yitzhak Rabin got popped back in 1995. That’s when America should have revved up peace efforts, put the boots on the ground, and noticed a deffinite change in the Middle East. Instead, we sat back, took 2 embassy bombings and responded by firing a cruise missle at a mud-hut in Afghanistan. Brilliant leadership! And regarding your earlier assessment that we leave Isreal to defend itself. Well, being a teacher, I’m sure it WWI and WWII can be pretty boring stuff… so why not have a WWIII to spice things up a bit? And hey, Isreal has nukes, which makes it even more fun! America’s presence in the ME is THE stabilizing factor. Without it, say hello to radioactive fuel. The good news is, scientists say it will make our cars go faster!
In terms of invading Iran over Iraq: Before AhmadI’materrorist came to power in 2005, there was a moderate at the helm. Signs were pointing to a potential student-led coup. There’s a huge Iranian dissident movement, unfortunately, the last few years it’s been shut-up and clamped down. NOW, in 2007, we face an Iran similar to the 80s. Apparently you have a glass-ball that can see into the future. Meet me in Vegas, we’ll go win a mint and buy Exxon stock.
TJ- Right on about Islam as a religion. I’ve only briefly studied the Qu’ran, but more and more it becomes apparent that this religion is warped and increasingly hostile.
General ME comment: Did everyone forget that after 9/11, the Saudis, Palestinians, Iraqis, Syrians, and pretty much the bulk of the ME were burning American flags and demonstrating in the streets? Why are we mollifying our enemies with diplomacy? It’s time we adopt a Bismarck style foreign policy and start dealing with the ME in a way it will give us the most benefit: kill our enemies, raise our allies. We’ve been at war (unbeknownst to us prior till NOW) for 25+ years. Time to act like it.
JustaDigger - You’re the reason Austrailia kicks ass. If only we could get the rest of your country to follow suit so we can take it the ME like your people did in WWI and II.
Rummy- sorry for the 2000 word post.
April 6th, 2007 at 5:06 amRummy - after you finish boot. Finish your degree and check out some officer ascension programs. Mustangs make better O’s.
April 6th, 2007 at 5:08 amYou’re my boy, EZrider. I’ve made a lot of big posts too–and when men have long and hard posts, you need somewhere to stick ‘em.
April 6th, 2007 at 5:09 amYeah, that was my thought as well. Right now, all I’m worried about is bootcamp; it’s also important to me to go to Iraq, and spend time in the trenches, especially if I’m going to become an officer eventually. There’s a certain “been there, done that” thing that I hear is extremely useful from a retired Army Colonel friend of mine (Col James Behnke, US Army Ret). I wouldn’t want it to be said about me (if I were to become an officer) that I didn’t understand what the grunts were facing.
I mentioned I got a 99 on my ASVAB, right?
April 6th, 2007 at 5:14 amI agree with EZRider. If you want to shut a liberal up for just a moment, maybe longer, first listen to them rant, politely (I have used many terms in my life but ‘fuck stick’ isn’t even something I, as a teacher, have heard inner city kids use nor did ANY of my DI’s use it) then ask them this one innocent question (in a true knife fight the deadly cut is usually the one not seen)…
Do you have any proof for that?
Liberals are often stunned when you ask that simple question and, here’s the kicker…
COLLATERAL DAMAGE! (the slutty, capricious but wise daughter of the Lord of Chaos)
You see, that question usually won’t deter the true liberal ranter BUT it does cause a certain look on the faces of those listening that I call the LOOK OF THOUGHT.
Guerilla Education, baby. Don’t let ‘em know they’re being taught until it’s too late. As one student angrily told me after two years…”You taught me something, didn’t you!”
YEEEEES!
Tim Roesch
April 6th, 2007 at 5:21 amCommand Private Major - retired
Oh, and Rumsfeld47…
As a former Command Private Major in the USAR some advice…
If you’re gonna raise hell keep moving. Never present a stationary target.
And, from personal experience, nothing takes the air out of some dimbulb three striper’s head faster than a solid, military stare that breaks down into laughter. I can remember one incompetent three striper who hauled me into the lavatory facilty and demanded I take a swing at him (I can, if asked politely, explain the whole story if you wish…it involves Bird Colonels and urine tests…).
I stared at him a moment, laughed and walked out. He stayed behind for at least fifteen minutes, either fixed in place with rage or frozen with embarassment.
Oh, and Sgt McMeans…if you’re out there somewhere…remember the command to wipe that smile of my face at Ft Dix? Are you still laughing at what I did?
Raise Hell, Troop!
Tim Roesch
April 6th, 2007 at 5:29 amCommand Private Major - retired
Tim,
Pretty please, with sugar on top, tell us about the urine trouble and Fort Dix (best name for a fort, EVER)!
Love,
Rumsfeld47
April 6th, 2007 at 5:41 amAs for “fuckstick,” I saw it in the movie Bad Santa. It is slang for “penis.” I’ll use it in a sentence: “Chuck Schumer is a liberal fuckstick.”
“Fucktard,” however, has come from the loose bowels of the internet, and it means “fucking retard”.
April 6th, 2007 at 5:44 amAs in; Nancy Pelosi is America’s biggest fucktard.
I just re-read my post and want to clarify something:
“Well, being a teacher, I’m sure it WWI and WWII can be pretty boring stuff…”
ignore the “it” typo. sorry. also, I was reffering to Kipp as a teacher, not myself. (think you mentioned that earlier?). In the future, I’ll try to do a better job proof reading.
April 6th, 2007 at 7:30 amKipp:
If you weren’t so amusing, you’d be annoying. In other words, you’ve become the Sanjaya of this site.
Instead of making silly, outrageosuly narcissistic hairstyles, you make silly, outrageously narcissistic statements: “If I was leader..I would have personally gone to each Middle Eastern country and stressed…I speak Arabic so that would have been a very interesting event, don’t you think?” Yes Kip, beyond fascinating. In fact, we’re all just sitting here playing the tape of you speaking to Arabic world leaders over and over in our heads. We’re very bummed it didn’t happen. We’ve all been obsessing about it. Love yourself much? Nah: “If you want to have a discussion with me you better come with the M1A1 Abrams not the Whippet tank.” “I am very familiar with the middle east. I spent two years in the mountains of Yemen” ( If I spend two years in a chalet in Switzerland am I “very familiar” with Europe and do I have the right to imply some direct, broad expertise about the continent at large? No, but clearly Kipjaya will not waste a self-aggrandizing opportunity like that, ) “I don’t have an unusally high regard for myself. Just solid opinions.”, “I am not a johnny come lately when it comes to the war in Iraq”. No, you’re just a “Johnny never been there” whose ego won’t let him acknowledge that his lack of direct knowledge of the situation on the ground should keep him from speaking on behalf of the Iraqi people and making hot air proclamations like “the majority of Iraqis aren’t willing to help us”. I’ve been there, for years, and you haven’t As the Iraqis have told me themselves, “If we didn’t want you here, you would’ve been gone a long time ago”. You have no idea what brave Iraqis, and in what numbers, help us out over there. There are two-faced and untrutstworthy people all over the world. For you to try to paint that as a general picture of the Iraqi people to support your political agenda is a craven, intellectually dishonest slander. Chickenshit sleight of hand, basically.
Stick to your lane, cowgirl.
You also have a liberal academic’s cripplingly naive and childlike view of the world: Should you ever make it out of the theoretical classroom world and into the real one, you might enjoy a more realistic assesment of both the value of Kipjaya’s place in it, and the realities of how the world functions. Like most childish-minded liberals, you seem to think Government is some specail all-powerful force that can simply make whatever needs to happen, happen ( Perfect national health care, anyone? ). Allow me to hoist you on your own pitard: “Then I would have gone to Israel and informed them they are going to make peace with Palestine and will honor the 1948 UN resolution.” Yeah, Kip, that’s how it works. We can make Israel do whatever we want, because George Bush and Skull and Bones are the only thing more powerful than the Great Zionist conspiracy. “The Golan Heights will be internationalized” - Of course. As usual, the U.N. will make it all good. “Once this is leveraged, we would assist the Palestinians in rebuilding the West Bank and Gaza.” Uhm, Kip, that’s already been going on - whenever Israel hands over land for peace, they get attacked from it. And as usual it failed, because we haven’t yet taken sufficient action against Iran who keeps attacking Israel through their proxy armies in, uh, the West Bank and Gaza.
And this is another good example of your liberal Governments Are God-worship: “America will never be able to solve the Sunni Shia divide”. Hey, dumbass, it was never America’s “job” to do that. It is not any Government’s job, it is the Iraqi people’s job. Liberals always think it is Government’s job to run societies, which is why liberals promote too much regulation and brilliant ideas like racial school busing programs. And please keep ignoring the fact that there is no overriding populist shia/sunni violence in Iraq. There is no civil war there; there are criminal gangs fighting turf wars. I’ve been in the homes of thousands upon thousands of Iraqis thousands upon thousands of times. They are neither invested or engaged in a Sunni/Shia divide, let alone a civil war. Shockingly, I’m not really interested in hearing your Peoria Living Room Expert’s ( or worse, classroom ) view and analysis of the war in Iraq. Like I said - stick to your lane, cowgirl.
And I love your completely unsupported claims like “the Enlightenment was a purely liberal movement”. Not only do you not back this up, but you run from acknowledging the fact that the definitions of “liberal” then, and “liberal” now, open up two fat cans of apple and orange flavored worms that eat at your argument.
But Sanjaya, your naivete about the world is kind of cute. Which is why we put up with your bad singing and let you keep coming back. I’m glad Pat has his own Sanjaya now. Nothing wrong with some cotton-candy entertainment.
Iraq is the best chance we have for a beach head of Democracy and military strength to get at the root causes of terror. We have to topple the regimes that create and finance it. After all your blather, the fact remains that the “first” thing we need to do is stop trying to create defeat in Iraq ( or at least you and your kind need to stop that ) and start supporting the fucking process of victory, instead of attacking your own country by tring to undermine it, as you. Enough chatter, Kip. Put up or shut up. Support victory over defeat, or not. Stop trying to sell the concept that our defeat in Iraq is a natural, inevitable unfolding of what is right and good. It seems your ego is simply determined to prove your earliest assesments correct. That is a symptom of Narcisstic Personality Disorder. Not that we haven’t seen enough of those symptoms from you already. Or from Liberalism. It is the realm of the intellectually superior, isn’t it?
Just remember Sanjaya. It’s not the quality of your singing that is resonating with anybody.
April 6th, 2007 at 3:31 pmGreetings:
Rumsfeld47:
I kinda figured out on my own what a ‘fuckstick’ was. I have taught sex ed to inner city 7th and 8th graders in LAUSD (YES! IT was legal and part of my job!).
As to Urine and Bird Colonels…for the last part of my stint as a 92b10 (that’s med lab tech to you civilians) I worked at the Reserve Station right next to the USC Med Center (that’s in LA) and we did flight physicals on pilots flying out of Los Alamitos - mostly O-mygodisthatabird level, pilots trying desperately to hold onto their flight status. I even asked a Brigadier to fill a cup once.
Well, E-5 Dipstick put incharge of the ‘chem’ section (think urine) didn’t like how I circulated amongst the forty-fifty year old soon to be ex-pilots and cheered them up. I cracked jokes, I made them laugh, I took their minds off losing flight status and that cup in their hands.
E-5 Dipstick lectured me, in front of same Lt. colonels, bird colonels and one very worried BG, about proper military bearing. I got winks from the BG and most of the officers I was taking urine from and one major asked the E-5 to clam up (I believe the word fuck was used). Well, just before lunch E-5 Dipstick (assistant manager of a 7-11 with an associates degree in chemistry when not a reservist) offers me a spot in the lavatory to discuss my piddling E-3 (yes, I was in the reserves for five years as an E-3 - another story) and my degree in biochemistry and whose shit didn’t stink. I knew more about urine then he knew about where it came from. Thank GOD we didn’t deploy!
I won…and I was requested by almost every officer who showed up for flight physicals…mister E-5 went to fix lunch when there were flight physicals to be done.
Moral of the story? A good joke goes a long way and a little humanity goes further and DO NOT screw with an E-3 with five years in grade who goes around calling himself Command Private Major to E-9s and gets away with it (the command sergeant major of the hospital (349th or 373rd, I forget which) I was assigned to thought my non standard rank was very funny).
As to liberals…remember, most liberals do, some day, grow up. We conservatives have to learn to shake our heads and be patient.
Some liberals need some toilet time though. Reality, what a concept!
Tim Roesch
Command Private Major - retired
(oh, and that is NOT the only story I have…trust me! There was the time, during basic at Ft Dix and an APB was put out on me…)
April 6th, 2007 at 5:50 pmBack on topic!
Destroyer666:
At great risk to my virtual self, allow me to suggest that (and i do this with great reluctance) you put Kip in a slightly different bin than your average brain dead welfare addicted bureauphile.
Kip does mean well and he is obviously willing to be spoken to and yes, I sense naivete but…and I say this with abject humility…
a Trident Missile makes a pretty loud bang but it is not the appropriate weapon for breaking up a mildly rambunctious frat party.
Save your devastating prose for the stupid fucks of the world and let us all dissect Kip paragraph by paragraph so that he will enter the ranks of the enlightened relatively unharmed.
After all Basic Training and SEAL training are both military training but no one (except a public school teacher) would suggest putting a 16 year old through the latter before at least the former.
Or, in other words…
Hardware stores have a variety of hammers for a reason.
Just a thought, I have taken cover and await your incoming mail.
Tim Roesch
April 6th, 2007 at 6:00 pmCommand Private Major - retired
Satan’s Co-pilot
Perhaps if you lived in Switzerland and spent countless hours with Europeans talking, playing chess, hiking and drinking for two years you might have a good understanding of the region. I guarantee my experience in Yemen gave me a much better understanding of the region than yours did simply because I did not have the comfort of spending my days with Americans with occassional direct contact with the Arabs. My proof is I speak fluent Arabic, do you? Everyday I came in contact with Yemenis, Somalis, Egyptians, Palestinians, Tunisians, Sudanis, Jordanis, and Syrians in the space of a village that had about 400 people. My world view is much larger than yours. I have traveled through India, Nepal, Burma, Thailand, much of Europe, Central and South America. So don’t tell me about living in a theoretical classroom. Having said this I want to say that I greatly respect your service in Iraq. My service was just under very different circumstances which allowed me 24/7 contact with Arabs.
Is it not true that we can’t tell the Iraqis who fight alongside us where the raids are going? This alone speaks volumes. We can’t trust the very people who will take over when we leave. We are fighting against Islamic radicals but when the Iraqis went to the polls they elected in droves their exiled leaders who fled to Iran. We overthrew a secular leader who kept Islamic radicals in check within his country. He was a ruthless bastard but since when did American foreign policy not use ruthless bastards to achieve our aims. I’m staying in my lane, brother!!!!!!
Let’s address some of your retorts. First off, Israel. We have tremendous influence on Israel. Their very existance is dependent upon the support of the US. The real problem we have in this country is the Jewish Lobby is so strong there is never any honest debate about the course Israel should take. To speak negative about Israel in American politics is political suicide. I’m not talking about bashing Israel, I’m talking about possibilities outside the desires of the Israeli government. Do some research on this and you will find this to be true. Not Zionist conspiracy but Israeli Influence in American politics
When I say internationalize the Golan Heights I don’t mean UN. They are a worthless military organization. (They shine mostly in aid distribution). I am talking about a NATO force, similar to what we have in Bosnia.
The American Revolution was fought by men who wished to radically change the way things worked. Liberals tend to work towards radical change. The Conservatives in the American Revolution were the Tories and the Crown. They wanted to maintain the status quo. Change was what they were fighting against. The Iranian Revolution was waged by Conservatives because they wanted to restore an old order. In that case it was traditional Islamic structure. Adolf Hitler’s Third Reich was also Conservative because he invoked the earlier greatness of the Holy Roman Empire and Bismark to justify Fascism, though he mixed socialism into his ruling philosophy. (I was ammused by EZ Rider saying we needed a Bismarck style foreign policy since Bismarck manipulated events to wage war on his neighbors..see Seven Weeks War and Franco Prussian War…and laid the groundwork for Absolutism in Kaizer’s Germany and later Hitler’s Reich…nice post)Mussolini used the Ancient Roman Empire to legitimize his movement. When I say I am a Liberal, I am speaking about my true heroes. The sons of the Enlightenment such as Locke, Jefferson, Washington, Franklin. If I don’t fit into some kind of modern cookie cutter liberal, I’m sorry. For me the military option is always on the table, just like we opened a can a whoop ass on the British. Just like we brought down the Japanese when they attacked us and the Germans after they declared war on us. Just like we contained the North Koreans and Chinese when they attacked us. It is when we create needless wars that we get ourselves in trouble like in Vietnam (see Gulf of Tonkin) and Iraq.
The big problem we have is that most Middle Eastern governments are led by secular leaders, from Musharaf to the Saaud family, to the Hameshite Kingdom in Jordan. If we start stripping them down, Islamic governments will begin to rise in the region. This is what is occuring and will occur in Iraq. Write this down in your notebook and be sure to put that a sissy boy Sanjaya told you this so when it happens you have a wonderful image in your mind. Whether we leave tomorrow or leave in ten years the inneptness of the Iraqi government will begin to alter that constitution we helped them create. Their government will become an Islamic government that will blame America and the west for their woes. When 50% of those in the Army say we will be unsuccessful in Iraq, I take pause. These are from men who as you put it “Have been there, done that”. Still staying in my lane brother!!!!!
http://www.militarycity.com/pols/2006_min.php
And as far as supporting victory. I love my country and I want it to succeed. We just need a leader who understands the realities of the region and stays focused on our real enemies. The one thing that Islam is missing is an Enlightenment. Before the west had theirs we did some pretty dispicable things in the name of religion (see the Inquisition and colonization of the Americas). Kill our enemies where we find them and contain when necessary. If you have in mind a war against Islam, we may never lose but I guarantee we will never win.
You said “Liberals always think it is Government’s job to run societies.” It is so funny how Conservatives say that but do you have any idea that Iraq was a completely socialist state. The Iraqi state fed all their people before the war. Guess who is feeding the Iraq people now? Yes, you guessed it, the American tax payer. So don’t tell me about Liberals and government dependence. We have inherited a dependent state on the other side of the world because Bush took his eye off the ball. (I think I ran over the Devil’s co-pilot on that one…but I stayed in my lane).
Finally, I have no ego. I am not an elitist liberal. I am far from being narcisstic. If I was any of those things I would reply to your offhanded middle school insults in kind. I am sorry that you are one of the multitudes of Americans that actually watches American Idol. I had to go look up who Sanjaya is. Still stayin’ in my lane.
Happy Easter Everyone,
Kipp
April 6th, 2007 at 6:15 pmShit, Tim, I’m out of L-Mavs….
April 6th, 2007 at 8:05 pmMight I be so bold as to summarize/interpret the ‘dialogue’ preserved here in this ether we know as the World Wide Web?
-
The ‘modern’ self-proclaimed philosophy commonly known to us as “Liberalism” has a very seductive ‘worm’ on the ‘hook’ it dangles before the young idealistic minds of humanity’s children.
Peace, Love, The coming together of thoughtful, ‘enlightened’, and virtuous minds for the achievement of truly ‘noble’ goals; but this is only (and always has been only) the sales pitch for a much more sinister purpose.
For the ‘core’ philosophy from which modern “Liberalism” draws its’ values and its’ inspiration is the combined writings/works of Friedrich Engels and Karl Marx (most notable i.e. Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital).
As I am not a university-educated man, I’ve no ‘intimate’ knowledge of ‘Marxist’ philosophy. But, of course, not having been ‘forced’ to study such nonsense in great detail does not disqualify my negative opinion of it. Marxism has been widely discredited a long time ago by ‘far superior’ intellectual thinkers and philosophers (can’t name any off the top of my head - and I shouldn’t ‘freaking’ have to!).
Nonetheless this whole ‘theory’ of Marxism found a ‘host’ to infect in the shambles of, the newly ex, Tzarist Russia of 1917. The way this ‘infection’ was perpetrated was for Vladimir Ilyich ‘Lenin’ (in collaboration with Russia’s enemy in WAR - Imperial Germany) to thoroughly exploit the chaos, despair and misery in Russian society - created largely by the horrendous military losses and defeats suffered in three plus years of war.
This ‘established model’ of the circumstances (a disillusioned, collapsing society) necessary for Communists to seize political power in a nation is one subsequent ’socialist politicos’ have long tried to perpetrate (re-create), in one fashion or another, time and again in this world… and most often under the guise of enlightened “Liberalism” (i.e. today’s Venezuela).
The loose ‘analogy’ of the above statements to current events that one might think I’m attempting to infer here… is quite deliberate on my part.
Nancy Pelosi = Ilyich Lenin… cut from the same RED cloth I’d say.
-
PS - Destroyer666’s comment:
April 6th, 2007 at 10:33 pm“Kipp: If you weren’t so amusing, you’d be annoying. In other words…”
(dated: April 6th, 2007 at 3:31 pm) is… simply fantastic!
Fer Shits and Giggles. A review of Kipp’s Greatest Hits.
“I am far from being narcissistic” - Kipp
From the Official Psychiatric Definition of Narcissistic Personality Disorder:
1.An exaggerated sense of self-importance - - exaggerates talents, and expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements.
“First off I am a private school teacher who currently has one dollar in my wallet….”
Followed by…”If I was leader in 2000 here is what I would do after 9/11. This is not hind sight either. This is what I told those around me at the time what we should do. I would tell anyone that listened prior to the invasion what would ensue. I have been dead on. I would have personally gone to each Middle Eastern country and stressed the urgency the US views the current crisis. I speak Arabic so that would have been a very interesting event, don’t you think?”
Knowing I’ve been to the middle East, but not knowing for how long or exactly in what capacity, or, in fact anything else about me, Kip says anyway: “I guarantee my experience in Yemen gave me a much better understanding of the region than yours.”
Followed by:
“My world view is much larger than yours.”
Kipjaya: “I have no ego” – Well, Kip, some other words of yours are speaking a hell of a lot more loudly than these. And congratulations on not having an ego, you are a human first. But I guess, to the narcissistic mind, making such impossible claims of superiority are a reflexive part of your nature. Quick, call the medical world so they can study the phenomenon….that is you.
“I am far from being narcissitic”– Hmm. Well for starters you are the only person here, who, after he makes a point, compliments himself for making it. ( “I believe I ran over the Devil’s co-pilot on that one” “If you want to have a discussion with me you better come with the M1A1 Abrams tank” )
“My world view is much larger than yours.” No, no narcissim. ( When did you read my bio? Or were you walking right behind me throughout my life? Or are you living in my brain? Are you the source of my occasional migraines? Are you the one singing those annoying old pop songs in my head from time to time? ) You also claim to know that I only had “occasional direct contact with arabs” . You have absolutely no idea if this is true, but simply because you want it to be true, you state it as the truth. Just like your liberal brethren in Congress who claim the American people have given them a mandate for a swift withdrawal from Iraq.
From The Official Psychiatric Definition Of Narcissistic Personality Disorder ( Cont. ):
2. Believes he is “special” and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
“Like I told you before, I am like no liberal you have ever known before.”
“I simply let my intellect do the talking.”
“My understanding of the region is much different than most people”
”I am sure I have read more on the Iraq War than Rumsfeld has. I know I have read more history than he will ever dream of.”
“If you want to have a discussion with me you better come with the M1A1 Abrams not the Whippet tank.”
“I don’t have an unusually high regard for myself. Just solid opinions”
“What frustrates you is I don’t speak like your stereotypical Liberal.”
.
“I would tell anyone that listened prior to the invasion what would ensue. I have been dead on.”
“My world view is much larger than yours”
“I guarantee my experience in Yemen gave me a much better understanding of the region than yours..”
“I am a thinking person. It is a shame you are not willing to engage someone who speaks from the left but doesn’t fit the mold of most Liberals. The dialogue I have broght about here today has been interesting. It seems the weakest intellectually among you wish to simply pull the plug instead of formulate a thoughtful paragraph.”
And just some General shit:
“It is so funny how Conservatives say that but do you have any idea that Iraq was a completely socialist state. The Iraqi state fed all their people before the war. Guess who is feeding the Iraq people now? Yes, you guessed it, the American tax payer. So don’t tell me about Liberals and government dependence. We have inherited a dependent state on the other side of the world because Bush took his eye off the ball. (I think I ran over the Devil’s co-pilot on that one…but I stayed in my lane).”
-Yes, Kip. It will shock your elitist liberal mind and ego, because a sense of absolute intellectual superiority is the very foundation on which liberalism is built, but even I, one of those dumbass conservatives, know not only that Iraq was a socialist state, but that the socialist model created by Abdel Gamel Nasser of Egypt is the very same political/economic model upon which it was built. And much more importantly, it is the Nasserist model that is one of the three primary underlying causes of modern Jihadism. The socialist model, ( quick simplicfication for those new to this: the oil revenue goes to the central government and the government is supposed to ensure fair distribution to meet the needs of the populace. Well sadly the State hordes the money more than it builds things the people need ) and the poverty it creates forms an essential breeding ground for terrorism. Perhaps one day capitalism will magically appear there before the Jihadis kill us. Or perhaps we take steps to stop the rise of Jihadism by bringing capitalism to the region by toppling the regimes that prevent capitalism. Like Saddam’s.
Your shit about the American people currently feeding the Iraqis is gibberish. It ain’t happening. Besides which, even if it were true, it does nothing to erase history and fact: the essential nature of liberalism is that free markets and systems are not to be trusted, and therefor Government is the people’s primary mechanism for a correct society. Regulate everything. You’re the same guy whose first and best answer the fuel problem is to build a giant, bloated “NASA” like agency to somehow, masterfully, in typical Government fashion, fix the whole thing. You can use all the cammo you want, but your spots will never change, my leopard friend. You’re trying to pull something akin to a two wrongs make a right argument. And your Orwellian attempt to reduce the money poured into the War on Terror as it is being waged in a country, Iraq, to some sort of simple welfare, is a nice try, but horribly unsophisticated. If the recreation of certain societies is THE key to “getting at the roots of terror” than bitching about the cost of that work is slickly disingenuous Orwellianism.
And yes, Kip, I speak Arabic. I speak it in wars in countries you’ve never been to or fought in, but choose to lecture about, and want to make policy and command decisions for. Fikki fikki yo mama.
No, oh grand sophist of Iraq, info as to raid targets, patrol goals, routes, etc., are not as a matter of course, kept from Iraqi troops. In fact, I’ve been on such operations where Iraqi officers have gotten pissed when we spontaneously changed things up in the middle of the game.. They wouldn’t have gotten pissed if they didn’t know what the original plan had been. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, and lots of times lots of folks involved on ops are not given a variety of details. Are we grasping at the straws of exception to enforce a wishful propaganda point, Kip? And whining about the fact that not all Iraqis can be trusted is also just plain dumb, or just plain disingenuous calculation.
Nice try with trotting out that musty old, over-flogged poll from last year. It was before the surge and the changing of the guard. Also, less than half those polled served in Iraq, and an even much smaller percentage ever left the large bases in the rear of Iraq. You know, people who actually dealt with the country and the insurgency. And you ignore what else is noted about the poll: it reflecfs the insidious influence the biased, anti-Bush media which pounds into the heads of these troops all the phony gloom and doom. It is nothing less than a crime against the minds and spirits of our own soldiers. You also didn’t mention that 77% of the troops don’t think Congress looks out for their best interests, or that the reasons they believe we might not succeed is because Congress won’t let them. No one asks them the “why” of their concerns. In fact, the vast majority recommends that we stay for at least 5 years in order to achieve our goals. But the simple minded headline suits your propaganda purpose so you leave it at that.
And thank God you want our illustrious European colleagues in NATO to run the Golan Heights instead of the U.N. You had me nervous there.
Man, why do you create so much that needs to be corrected? There’s so much to correct you on, but it’s just too time consuming. And by the way, you keep betraying your obvious antipathy and seeming hatred for Israel with your words against them. In fact Kip, it’s pretty amazing how for someone supposedly not “a cookie cutter liberal” you harbor so many of their classic, indoctrinal dogmas.
And it’s Hashemite, not Hameshite. Perhaps you need some lessons in Arabic. You obviously need them in the Middle East.
April 7th, 2007 at 4:10 amKipp;
You don’t really speak Arabic, do you? How do you fuck up something as basic and famous as the Hashemites? Jesus Christ.
April 7th, 2007 at 4:48 amAnd this is rich. You say:
“The Quran also says the Christians are the closest in love to Muslims and the Jews are farthest away. This is the quote I chose to use as I made my way through Yemeni society. It always worked like a charm.”
So you cruised through your time in the Yemeni town by bashing the Jews. Why didn’t you just say”The Quran also says the Christians are the closest in love to Muslims” since your goal was just to be chill with these people. Why did you add the Jew-hating part, as if you endorsed it, especially when it had no bearing on the issue at hand: a Christians relationship to Muslims? You just couldn’t resist adding in the part about spitting on Jews for being loveless, could you? Why? You claim: ” I do not hate Israel.” but you’ve attacked them in just about every post here, and you brag in this one about happily slandering them to others. “Worked like a charm!” You’re a fucking anti-Semite aren’t you? ( In case that confuses you as much as Hashemite, it means, basically, that you’re a Jew Hater. )
April 7th, 2007 at 5:13 amKipp
The more you express the more you contradict self. You will never see your own contradictions, so I will share with you what you SHOULD seek - leadership in self and results orientation.
I’ve managed many that are not necessarily libs but have a commonality with you. They come to me asking what to do. They know the answer, but can’t figure it out. They have all the data but cant make sense. They can’t get results on goal because they stall - TOO MUCH DATA. They keep mulling over the data. One thing is absolutely predictable when this happens: They seek their own beliefs and cherry pick data to support that belief.
Kipp, YOU”RE TOO FULL! I can tell you are task orineted - not goal oriented. You consider achievements based on completing a task. You cannot achieve a goal because you’re caught in the task. You palce so much value in the task that you don’t even see that you have no goal. You put so much value on efforts you have made that you can’t let go of the efforts. You mistakenly believe that your efforts are the value RATHER THAN RESULTS.
People of results assess the suituation, reflect on history - briefly -, develop a plan, and take action not for sake of action but to achieve a goal. These people make mistakes - but adjust toward the goal.
The most impossible thing for Libs like you to do is to make a plan and commit to the goal. Why? Because one thing is absolutely certain - that is:
“Anyone’s plan will proove them wrong at some point”
TRUE LEADERSHIP: Make a plan, act on the plan toward goal, assess and admit flaws in the actions or the plan, adjust, and finally meet or exceed the goal.
You have proven in all your rhetoric that you have no leadership abilities or philosophy that could remotely be associated with leadership because you are so in love with the tasks.
You expect people to banter with you about tidbits. Because you are so full, you pull shit out to counter every tidbit. These are your tasks you value so much. You can’t even see the goal that you think you move towards… which is to prove yourself right by tearing others down. You feel like you are superior because you BELIEVE you win every tidbit battle.
NEWSFLASH: You are contradicting self but will never admit it!
You can’t admit you’re flawed in your understanding. You’ve never asked one person to explain so YOU could understand. You just keep raising self.
April 7th, 2007 at 6:20 amJohn in PA -
Your analysis is spot on. I actually printed your last post, I have been moving from task led to goal led in my adult life. I have not had it this clearly explained before. (not a leftist now, was 22 yrs ago)
Reminds me of a great quote from a mediocre movie, Ghostbusters:
Dr Ray Stantz: “Personally, I liked the university. They gave us money and facilities, we didn’t have to produce anything! You’ve never been out of college! You don’t know what it’s like out there! I’ve *worked* in the private sector. They expect *results*.”
Drive On,
Steve in NC
April 7th, 2007 at 8:05 amdestroyer666 and John in PA - that was just fucking awesome! This site is real, unfiltered free speech with hard core facts and I love it. Destroying liberal “facts” is just so easy and fun.
April 7th, 2007 at 8:33 amJohn in PA - I want to improve on being more goal-oriented. Can you suggest a book or three?
Kipp, this is an example of people trying to learn more and constantly trying to do better instead of remaining where they are with a particular belief set. Just out of curiosity, how many entrepreneurs do we have here? I will bet quite a few.
April 7th, 2007 at 2:34 pmGreg - USA, Steve in NC
Ghostbusters is actually great entertainment - love Bill Murray. I don’t have all the answers, but for what I do know, I must give credit to the many people who mentored me through the years.
Greg - USA
Leadership is something I am still learning and vow to make life-long learning.
First I have to tell you that I am not Military. Left high school with graduation at 1 credit over min and went to recruiting office to sign up. I laid one stipulation down on the Marine Recruiter - If he tell me truthfully how difficult boot camp is that I would sign. …That if he didn’t tell me all the benefits and the good stuff .. that he be totally honest with me I’d sign. Well he didn’t and I proceeded down the street to a certificate school in Mechanical Drafting.
As for Leadership I worked in command-control style of operations. When I became manager I had a command-control style. This is not adequate today - it doesn’t work outside the military. I had to adapt and been doing so for 10 years now. I worked up to a hefty salary for my region and have many excellent results. But I also have failures. So, take what you wish leave what you don’t.
Principles in Leadership:
Leadership is more about people and team than anything else! I don’t have particular recommendations for books off the top. I will look through my stack to get something to you later.
Of all the things in leadership, the only ones that matter most is respect to others and never, never loose focus on the goal.
To Remain Leader: Never let disrespect go by unaddressed - however - ACT - don’t REACT. And never disrespect self. Reprimand in private. Above all take the responsibility for failure - never hang your team members.
Remember you can delegate the task but can’t delegate the responsibility.
Mechanisms in leadership:
A Good Starting Point is to know some key words - gain full understanding of what they are and their differences: Strategy, plan, tactics, tasks, objectives, mission, values, goals.
Don’t want to clutter Pat’s site with too much of these side conversations, so please let me know if I should take another tact. Perhaps Pat could offer my email to you. I give permission for that with this typing.
J
April 7th, 2007 at 3:35 pmHey, everybody! Back from USMC “mini-bootcamp”, or as I like to call it, Aye for an Aye ‘07.
I can’t believe you guys are still entertaining Mr. Fuckstick by paying attention to him. He’s clearly a delusional high school kid, faking his way along because he’s so well red [sic, isn’t it?].
Kipp, my world view is larger than yours is.
“no it’s not”
“yes it is”
“no it’s NOT!”
“Yes it IS!”
“Mom, Conservatives are pointing out my stupidity on blog comment boards again!”
Chad, this next statement should get Kipp banned.
“The Iraqi state fed all their people before the war.” You are so fucking dumb, dude.
I speak Arabic too, dude. Derka derka, Mohammed Jihad. Sherpa sherpa bak Allah! Maybe if you spent more time shooting small animals in the backyards of Texans, you’d understand that you will never be able to fuck a woman like I will.
Eat shit and get banned.
April 7th, 2007 at 4:55 pmYeah it is pretty obvious he’s a kid. Because if he’s an adult who talks in such little boy terms, he’s definitely, what’s that banned word? Oh yeah, retarded. I mean, it actually would be hilarious if he were grown up, and was still that stunted.
But as a kid, displaying such clear and reptetive signs of a serious psychiatric disorder, NPD, I thought the nice thing to do was a little frontal-assault intervention while there’s still time for him to get help.
April 7th, 2007 at 5:07 pmAnd you don’t think I’ve been giving him help?
Here’s some more help, Kipp: take your cock out of your ass, it doesn’t go there.
April 7th, 2007 at 5:17 pmjeeesh…this discussion still goin’ on?
Kipp…imagine if you and your leftist cohorts actually stood behind the Prez & this war…even with the slow progress & all…
Do you think Iran would still feel like they are on top of the world? I don’t.
April 7th, 2007 at 5:29 pmThe whole experience has taught me something that should’ve been obvious earlier. Since contemporary liberalism is based on the belief that liberalism is a special club of intellectually superior people who should be charged with running the world because they are smarter, then as a result: 1. Most narcissts will be attracted to Liberalism due to the social cache of belonging to such an elite club and 2. Unafflicted liberals over time are likely to develop the disorder ( Narcissistic Personality Disorder ) because they must adopt the belief that they are above ( the literal definition of the word super ) normal men. They must believe that they are supermen, and once they join the club, they are constantly reinforced in this belief by their fellow cultits. Conservatives, funnily enough, are always counseling the logic paths of common sense and a subserviience to God. Since to Liberals, man and his intellect are God, by definition they reflect the apex of narcissism. It does’t take long for this mindset to develop into full blown Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
You should do a post on this Pat. If you agree. Or just to kick it around.
April 7th, 2007 at 5:30 pmKipp the sage philosopher speaks!
“Perhaps if you lived in Switzerland and spent countless hours with Europeans talking, playing chess, hiking and drinking for two years you might have a good understanding of the region.”
Perhaps if you lived in Missouri and spent countless hours with rednecks spitting, shooting cats, farting, and watching Nascar for two years, you might have a good understanding of why your dick is smaller than ours, Kipp. (By choice, not by design!)
April 7th, 2007 at 5:44 pmdestroyer666
April 7th, 2007 at 5:44 pmYour latest post above was awesome! I thank you for your time spent on it. I just re-read it - its even better when taking time to fully absorb. It supports the reality that arguing individual points with a lib is fruitless because they don’t have a foundation in standards or principle.
Thanks again.
J
And I can blow you away at ANY time; I’ve got more European culture under my nutsack than you do in your entire body.
I just like to cuss!
April 7th, 2007 at 5:45 pmOOPS - my error.
April 7th, 2007 at 6:02 pmDestroyer666
I was referring to your lenghty post.
destroyer666 - “Yeah it is pretty obvious he’s [Kipp’s] a kid. Because if he’s an adult who talks in such little boy terms, he’s definitely, what’s that banned word? Oh yeah, retarded. I mean, it actually would be hilarious if he were grown up, and was still that stunted.” - April 7th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
I’m not so sure about this assessment, I mean it’s possible that he is. But it’s just as plausible that ‘Kipp’ is pretty much what he appears to be - with one important caveat. I’m still of the opinion that he really is one of those DNC-Internet-Talk Radio ‘political soldiers’ - charged with the task of monitoring and antagonizing people commenting on blogs like this. Such devout Leftists actually believe this sort of ‘activism’ on their part really makes a difference.
Of course, if he actually is only ‘just’ a teacher… that fact alone is horrifying enough! I’ve still much work to do in regards to ‘de-programming’ my sister’s kids.
At this point all I want out of life is to someday be able to tell the story of how America won World War III (saving the world yet again) to all my nephew’s and niece’s, as yet unborn, children.
As for rumsfeld47’s ENTIRE prior comment (from 4:55 pm) which opens with:
“Hey, everybody! Back from USMC…”
Stuff like this definitely makes me laugh out loud as I read it! Simple, direct, and it gets the point across in rather a unique way.
Daniel
April 7th, 2007 at 9:17 pmrummy - “Derka derka, Mohammed Jihad. Sherpa sherpa bak Allah!” HAHA!
yea, kipp isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed, and it would probably do him some good to get out of the basement and allow the sunlight to touch his pasty white skin. Right now we’re having fun with him. As soon as we get bored, we’ll drop the banhammer on his ass.
April 7th, 2007 at 9:49 pmDoes anyone remember that movie “The Island”?? With Scarlett Johansen? The 5% (the ones with 90% of the money) tell us what they want us to know, from the perspective they choose, in order to control us. end of story
April 9th, 2007 at 1:47 amWell, even though Kipp’s argument has been thorougly destroyed.. I want to add my 2 cents:
“(I was ammused by EZ Rider saying we needed a Bismarck style foreign policy since Bismarck manipulated events to wage war on his neighbors..see Seven Weeks War and Franco Prussian War…and laid the groundwork for Absolutism in Kaizer’s Germany and later Hitler’s Reich…nice post)”
Bismarck united Germany and then successfully defeated his opposition. The groundwork for absolutism? Wilhelm II was an idiot who came to Austria’s assistance which kicked off WWI. Bismarck spent his whole life keeping France and Russia apart to avoid such a war. Read Keegan’s “The First World War.” And the connection to Hitler is a useless dot structure that any serious study of history recognizes as laughable.
Destroyer was right on, you post in this thread like we’re all a bunch of idiots. Vain, pedantic arguments usually lack the charisma to win supporters.
April 9th, 2007 at 6:20 amGreetings:
Pardon my ego, Mr. Clinton, but I noticed, Senor Rumsfeld47, there was no mention of my Colonels and Urine story? My feelings (and fingers) are indignant!
Well, I guess Kipp-bashing was more important. USMC-hmmm, let me see…United States Maritime Commission? (hehehehehe)
I had a long discussion with some people over Easter (it’s great being the only Jew in the room…well, my dad was Catholic and my mom was raised Orthodox Jewish and my grandparents were pissed) and this topic sorta came up…Iraq, I mean…
Most people who disagree with the war admit, after long interrogation (without water boarding but not moving ahead in the buffet line is torture of a sort) they admit having little first or even second hand contact with the middle east (yes, I am using lower case you damn jihadis! - ahhem…).
We need more intellectual conversation to raise the level of ‘norance to fight all the IGnorance that’s out there.
Though I sorta liked the comment about cocks and asses and where cocks belong (henhouses, right?) what I would like to see are more intellectual posts such as a few I saw here.
The conversation is still going on because it is valuable. Worry when there is silence…
Silence is only Golden when there is a Gold standard, otherwise, it’s just dead weight. Iridium is worth more and better armor…
Tim Roesch
April 9th, 2007 at 6:35 amCommand Private Major - retired
Greetings (part deux):
Kipp wrote:
My world view is much larger than yours.
{cut to odd memory of two young boys comparing penis sizes - you figure it out…}
True wisdom is knowing that you do not know everything. Kipp’s comment alone qualifies him for the ‘I thought I was an adult when I turned 18, right?’ award.
Adult is as adult does.
I am often accused of being sarcastic and here is an example…
I could be sitting in the Space Station, telling people I have a larger world view than 99.99% of the world’s population. Wouldn’t I be right?
(very funny, Tim, hahahaha…sarcastic twit!)
Ahh, Grasshopper (the person not the drink), but think through my sarcasm! If you can snatch wisdom from my sarcasm you can leave, GrassKipper.
Relativity is everything. I too could travel around the world and learn nothing. I could listen to my own heart and soul and learn everything.
First, we are all human, after all, with the same failings and dreams and blood. There are more similarities between a Yemeni Camel breeder and a Irish Stock broker in NYC than differences.
(i’ll wait whilst you count them…}
Kipp, there are basics of human existence and you can go to the ends of the Earth, speak every language, peer into every Yurt and mudhut, herd sheep or five year olds, float lazily down every stream (except last weekend when the Rhine was closed) and still learn nothing. I went to an Orthodox Shul for seven years and learned more about being Jewish in the two years I spent at a Catholic Boys’ school. (How do you fit four Germans and twenty Jews in a Volkswagen? I was asked…my answer…very funny Lion Bait…)
My experience teaching high school can be found in the saying…(paraphrase alert)
ATTENTION ALL TEENS! LEAVE HOME NOW WHILE YOU STILL KNOW EVERYTHING!
the hidden message is ‘or stay home and learn that you bring ‘home’ with you wherever you go’. There are no fairy godmothers, no Tinkerbells (though the short skirt was interesting), and very, very very few do-overs.
Or, as was so pithily stated in that Buckaroo Banzai show
“Wherever you go, there you are.”
Focus on the ‘YOU’ part, Kipp then turn around and look around you. You can not know others until you know yourself (know how you would act in a tilting cruise ship off a Greek Island for instance) BEFORE you can know others and I think, anyone agree, Kipp and most Liberals DO NOT know themselves.
Now, back to that rooster and anus thing…would a man leave the house if he could do that? =-)
Tim Roesch
April 9th, 2007 at 7:00 amCommand Private Major - retired
Greetings (parte tres):
Okay, I am sorry, but I had to. I have Kipp on the brain. Sue me. I’m a Jew, I can handle it.
Enough with the self serving anti-Semitism…
Everyone should (that means you, Kipp) enter a program like www.naturesclassroom.org/
This is a life skills program masquerading as an outdoor education program that ‘treats’ over twenty thousand kids a year from 250 schools across New England and New York). Great for the kids, great for the staff…of which I was for six years.
One of the parts of the program is Underground Railroad (called UGRR) where the cherubs are put through the entire slave thing. They’re auctioned off, walked to the port, loaded onboard, brought to America, sold at auction, forced to pick cotton then given the chance to make it to Canada (the land of socialized medicine and Mounties).
During my six years I earned a rep as someone who could make 13 year olds pee their pants. My description of a cat o’ nine tails and what it does to the human body was considered a must see. I could turn a hundred giggling twelve year olds into serious, listening runners on the Underground Railroad simply with my description of the middle passage (lean back…giggling? You are on a ship for three weeks, just like that, stacked like cordwood, pooping, peeing, vomiting on each other, just like that…funny? Giggling now? And you’re on one deck. There are decks above you…what flows down hill!? Giggling still?)
I have never been a slave, never been beaten or beat someone with a ‘cat’…but I, as a human, can relate what that must have felt like (without all the messy coroner inquests and lawsuits afterwards) to kids whose worse experience was, heretofore, showing up at school with the wrong hair style or the wrong tunes on their CD player.
One fine day a young man from Senegal (where there is a museum devoted to slavery with real ‘cats’ on display – he too liked my Cat o’ Nine Tails talk) is employed at NC. His harangue in three different languages of those suburban rich kids was a thing of beauty and something they were talking about, according to their teachers, three years later.
We talked later. He was a black man from Senegal, I was (well, am) a white Jew from Sunland-Tujunga (just a few miles from where Rodney was beaten) and we both understood each other on many levels. Yes, we came at the topic and life from different places but we learned over the two years I knew worked with him that we had more similarities than differences.
You do NOT need to squat in a mud hut with a New Guinea head hunter or swap prostitution stories in Thai with a German tourist in Bangkok (put that in your underwear and beat it, Rumsfeld47 =-) ), or stand on a street corner (oh, let’s say, Santa Monica and Kingsley Dr in LA in the spring of 1992) with a shotgun staring down looters to have a world view.
You merely have to listen…
Hear anything, Kipp? Are you listening?
Tim Roesch
Command Private Major – retired.
(and yes, Rumsfeld47 – I can email you riot stories if you want and the Bangkok comment was meant as a good natured ribbing of your…shall we say, anatomically correct humor…)
April 9th, 2007 at 7:39 amThe true terrorists are in our Congress–the fascists left are the terrorists we need to fear more than any others. And they spend our money to further their anti-American bullshit, and they don’t want to spend our money to defend our military heroes. They have to go.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:05 amMike
Yes They Have to Go.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:25 amPat - your making a difference, God Bless you.
Ok this video is a bit of red meat, but this is what needs to be done using all available media.
http://granitegrok.com/blog/2007/04/no_fury_like_a_mother_scorned_the_movie.html
April 9th, 2007 at 10:59 amKipp,
I’m sure you are tired of being attacked but you did say that Islam hasnt had an enlightenment. How did the enlightenment come about in christianity? power politics? by supplanting an oppressive tyrannical government the vacuum could be filled by a clerical government it is true, but modern clerical governments are showing their true colors and could in the end bring about the enlightenment we all seek. purification , unfortunately comes through fire. things will get hotter before they cool down, unfortunately it may be at the expense of our lives.
as for christians being closer to muslims, the understanding comes from the passive nature of Jesus who said to turn the other cheek and to give a thief your cloak as well. Islamic law allows for religions to exist if they remain subservient and allow the supremecy of the muslim. Judaism has never called for that.
Jews are hated by muslims because they are so much like them. the christians, in general,are different, with exception of those christians who choose to fight as did the crusaders after 400 years of muslim tyranny.
I think you are right , keeping saddam in power would not have stirred the pot or fanned the coals. but it would have delayed the inevitable because Islam is spreading through other means witin our borders and with it comes the idea that “the jews are powerful and influential” which as a simple idea isnt necessarily bad. but it was the essential idea behind the rise of Naziism. Christians are the muslims brothers only if they are complacent sheep waiting to die, otherwise they are like those portrayed in the quran as “friends of one another”
Islam is an ideology of hatred that needs to be dealt with directly and that will mean warfare until an enlightenment comes.
April 9th, 2007 at 2:34 pmYou guys are great! Rumsfeld - good luck man and God’s speed! You are going to be a hit in boot camp, I’m sure. Destroyer666, Tim Roesch - great work guys - it was great entertainment watching the thread between you and kipp. I hope you guys keep up the good work. You make very valid points that need to get out to the fascist lefties. Keep your patience - maybe, just maybe some of the left will actually start to align themselves with reality?
April 9th, 2007 at 3:22 pmHope you guys keep up the good work - Rumsfeld47 - good luck!
April 9th, 2007 at 3:25 pmGreetings:
tj writes:
Islam is an ideology of hatred that needs to be dealt with directly and that will mean warfare until an enlightenment comes.
Having read most of the Qu’ran I can say that if it was inspired by God then Islam has a muddled headed God.
The trick is how to get the hate out of Islam.
hmmm….
Tim Roesch
April 9th, 2007 at 3:33 pmCommand Private Major - retired
The question is not how to get the hate out of Islam, but why a billion people consider a guy who raped a 9 year-old girl when he was over 50 a prophet.
You can take the hate out of Islam, but you can’t take Mohammed’s dick out of 9-year-old pussy.
“Ask not what your Prophet can do for your vagina, ask what your vagina can do for the Prophet!”
If anyone likes my writing, head over to the Psycopath Vs. Psycopath thread; my big post covering mini-boot-camp is there.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:46 pmtim,
good point. I suggest the only way to get the hate out of islam is to throw the quran and sunnah in the toilet, imprison the mullahs, and get people to pray to allah for guidance directly. Either that or get all the clerics drunk and let them awaken buck naked in a Gay bar on pig roast night!
sometimes religionists focus too much on Books and Clerics then they do on personal divine inspiration. Been guilty myself, but atleast my Book and Clerics don’t ask me to go out and Kill such and such for God.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:51 pmTj
Like most psuedo-intellectuals, Kipp loosely used a term he’d heard before: “The Englightenment”. The period of introspection and doctrinal reformation of Christianity, was, well, “The Reformation”. And he was really just regurgitating a long standing tenet of contemporty Islamic critique, which holds that much of Islam’s pathologically self-centered ( read: violent ) behavior can be attributed to the religion’s relative youth and attendant lack of a Reformation Period. Kipp just got his plagiarizing a little wrong when he mistakenly used The Enlightenment instead of The Reformation. You know, it’s basically the same thing, all that post-middle ages stuff.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:07 pmI wonder if he teaches history. He probably just teaches Kipp but acts like he teaches other shit.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:09 pmGreetings:
First, I was not aware that Mohammed had sex with a 9 year old and, if he did, my guess it would not have been called rape back then. I would be very interested to know where to get ref’s for that notation. I could use it in a book I am writing.
Second, getting the hate out of Islam…Kipp does have a point about the ‘Enlightenment’ though I think you would have had to do to the Pope of that era what was suggested we do to the Mullahs here in this post.
The only Enlightenment in Christianity was the bright light of large piles of wood burning underneath squirming heretics and witches.
Religion is a dangerous gene we all have and there are too many retro-mullahs and pathogenic priests out there waiting for the opportunity to turn an otherwise inocuous gene product into a carcinoma. (yes…calm down…I have a degree in biochemistry! Everything is under control! No need to panic…the metaphor police have been called!)
So, how do we Enlighten Islam without actually nuking Mecca (which I know most of us want to do…sorta).
Tim Roesch
April 10th, 2007 at 6:15 amCommand Private Major - retired
Tim, do your own research; I think you’d be very interested in Robert Spencer. www.jihadwatch.com Also writes books about Islam and the challenges it faces, and he keeps a cool head about it; he also is being protected by Uncle Sam.
The only point Kipp has ever had was from a broom shoved up his ass. Kipp is clearly a high school student, you all give him far to much credit.
You point about “pathogenic priests” is dull and ill taken; if you’d read Ann Coulter’s “Godless”, you’d know that you’re about 300 times more likely to be sexually assaulted by your school teacher than a priest. I’m not exaggerating that number.
Finally, you seem to have a lot on your mind for a guy who wonders aloud if the terrorists poisoned our nation’s dog food. It could NEVER be a dry run for attacking humans through food–there is no FDA for dogs, Tim. Pet food was (and is, for now) entirely unregulated.
April 10th, 2007 at 6:27 amGreetings Rumsfeld47:
You wrote:
Finally, you seem to have a lot on your mind for a guy who wonders aloud if the terrorists poisoned our nation’s dog food. It could NEVER be a dry run for attacking humans through food–there is no FDA for dogs, Tim. Pet food was (and is, for now) entirely unregulated.
***
Way back when when I was merely a survivalist and proud of it (had my very own copy of the Anarchist Cookbook and everthing - I was young and foolish like Kipp too) I read some reports put out in 1950s about the abandonment of chemical and biological warfare in this country.
As a college student (WPI - 1985) I took interest in the battlefield epidemiology. The problem with bio- and chem- warfare is quite simple:
Get large amounts of agent to, into, onto, around potential victims WITHOUT getting it on your guys and therein lay the rub.
Simply sneaking into a food factory and dumping something in some vat ain’t gonna cut it. If you wanna see it coming you have to look for preparation. Unless you have a hideously toxic or pathogenic agent you have to get the agent, unharmed,unmolested into as many people as possible and that ain’t easy. Flying a plane into a building is far easier.
The time to look for that preparation is during the planning stage because God help us if people start dropping in the street. It will be way past too late then.
This inability to store and effectively deliver the agent is why (at least publically) the US Government gave up on NBC warfare (except where loud bangs were involved).
Now, I will admit, I am not hep to the latest intell but trying to anticipate, at least in my own mind, the terrorists who REALLY REALLY want to do damage makes me look at the places were I might see the first signs first. I admit…dog food is a stretch but so was thinking the Japs would bomb Peral Harbor.
Dog food, to me, looked like a likely scenario for doing a dry run…like you have Camp Afghan (to pre-train those going in-country) in Kansas, not in a swamp or near Barrow Alaska.
***
Now, as to organized religion…don’t get me started. Yes, yes, there are many very good priests and I pray every night that there is a heaven for such honorable, devote men and women (YES women) to go to BUT it has been my experience that decay draws flies and where there are flies there are maggots.
I can, as a human being forgive (not condone or accept as an ongoing affair) priests (be they one or two or a thousand) that molest children. It is a sickness, a failing, a sin and I can forgive that (while the miscreant is in jail).
I CAN NOT forgive those who knowingly promulgate that sin. Screwing up is one thing. Screwing up on purpose is another. I have two words for you…
BERNARD LAW.
Bernard Law is the italics that highlight what I find very, very wrong with the bureacracy that is ‘religion’. A person’s relationship with their Creator is sacred and, to me, inviolate and that is why I HATE people like Bernard Law and the thousands of priests, nuns, parishioners etc who knew something was stanky in the sacristy and did NOTHING! I have listened to the interviews where adults speak of being told by parents that what was happening to them wasn’t and that she should keep their mouths shut.
I have two other words for you….
Ryan White.
I would bet at least one of my reproductive organs that the same rot that allowed a cardinal to play a shell game with child molesting priests can be found at the heart of Islam; only Mullahs seem to be more interested in blowing their kids up than sodomizing them.
The same hubris that allowed ‘In the name of God’ to kill millions and millions is, sadly, the same hubris that sparks some of humanity’s greatest moral achievements and if it takes Heretics like me to stand a post on the moral battlements and point fingers in shocking directions then that is what I will do.
You religious people keep your eyes to God. I will risk eternal damnation to watch your backs by looking the other way.
I have lost jobs because I absolutely REFUSED to ignore immoral behavior. I have walked the walk and talked the talk.
And I don’t pray to Anne Coulter and yes, I know, about child molestation. I have filled out the reports. I have looked into eyes, I have stood tall and proud. But I have also seen pathogenic priests (shall we walk down memory lane? Jim Jones? Dave Koresch? Moon? Any number of Jesuits? Quite a few Popes? Malleus Maleficarum? AntiSmeitism? The Holocaust?).
The Devil doesn’t want you to bow down to him. He just wants you to look the other way…like how many ‘moderate’ Muslims?
Bring it…
HOO RAH!
Tim Roesch
April 10th, 2007 at 1:51 pmCommand Private Major - retired
Tim, I bow to your chemical expertise on the dog food thing. I’ll start work on my tinfoil had immediately!
I ain’t gonna defend Catholics, ’cause I ain’t one of them. (Martin Luther’s my man!) Every bit of outrage is justified–but given the statistics on who is most likely to molest who, it’s the school teachers that demand 300 times the attention that the occassional priest warrants.
The reason why we think Priests=molestors is because people in the media who HATE Christians look for anything they can to drive people away from Jesus. Christianity is fine; it’s the Christians (and people who call themselves Christian) who keep fucking it up for the rest of us.
Don’t blame the Christianity, man. Blame the evil nature of men (which even an athiest would be a fool not to believe in).
April 10th, 2007 at 2:22 pmRumsfeld47 - tinfoil hats are for radiowaves. Bacteria will eat you and use the tinfoil for leftovers. =-)
And, I do not believe priests = molesters. What I believe is that God or whatever you call him, her, it, put us here with free will to see what we would do with that precious thing called a soul.
The cloak of religion provides, too often, the shadows evil likes to hide in. I don’t blame Christianity and, if I had to pick a religion Lutheranism is in the top three. I respect a dude who nails anything to a church door. I disagree with the paper thing. It should have been a few bishops…
I do blame the evil nature of men which is why when everyone is davening (or praying or genuflecting) I am watching out for the little shits trying to pick pocket my soul when they thing I ain’t lookin.
And, just to make it clear, I understand the ratio of priests to teachers thing but I will not accept someone who tosses a pedophile in with the altar boys to hide him from the law to save a bureaucracy’s face. One or a million…it’s raw, distilled evil on the half shell.
Tim Roesch
April 10th, 2007 at 2:54 pmCommand Private Major - retired
Now, waht about those angry, bomb wearing Muslims, huh?
April 10th, 2007 at 2:55 pmDude, those guys are ASSHOLES!
:beer: 
April 10th, 2007 at 9:19 pmTim ,
I have to take exception to your relativistic approach to islam. Though, the catholic church has had its sins well promulgated in the media, it is still good to have had the sinners exposed and the criminals arrested. still as christians we know that other christians will not defend them because they are christians, afterall free inquiry has existed since the time of Christ. people have been discussing the nature of christ and his teachings from the get go , which is why so many councils were called to discuss such issues. those who didnt agree left the church and started their own churches, which why so many writings claiming divine inspiration ahave circulated and still circulate today.
Islams scriptures had a similar experience, except the 3 rd successor to muhammed, othman , decided to have all other versions destroyed, and effectively abolished free thought or inquiry from then on. the quran and sunnah support this notion that the Ulama(clerics) are God’s shadow on earthg and are infallible. though infaliibility exists in faith and teachings (not necessarily example) in the pope, infallibility exists in the caliph (Now ulama)since the caliphate died out in 1924, in faith teachings AND actions, their decrees are not only morally binding but also legal binding if the state is under muslim law.
Because of this, when a muslim does something illegal or immoral, muslims will jumped to their defense or excuse the behavior because what they did is noramlly supported in the quran and sunnah, such as killing an unbeliever (sura 9:5) muslims are also enjoind to despise and not trust unbelievers. “Take not the jews and christians as friends”,the ayatolla of shia islam compares unbelievers to feces which has its basis in the sunnah as well as the quran. the quran allows believers to lie in order to benefit islam, it has many precedents in the quran but also the sunnah (ishaq 368).
Tabari has the story of the aisha, the 6 year old bride who muhammed had sex with at 9. its from aisha own account. See also Bukhari 4 book 52 for an account of Jihad on USC’s website (university of southern california) Buhkari is considered the most authentic hadith in sunni islam. # 270, 271, 260 and 283 are very revealing texts with in baukari. People were killed because they said bad things about muhammed(theo van gogh anyone), and apostates are to be killed.
Bottom line: islam is an ideology of hatred and imperialism much like stalinism: one party, one God one way. everyone under the yoke of islam must either convert, pay a heavy tax in submission along with numerous other restriction or else they deserve death.
all the while, muhammeds debauched life is exalted as virtuous. He is considered sinless!
Come to Islam, where vice becomes virtue
April 10th, 2007 at 9:22 pmChad, I want a puking emoticon. Can you make that happen? You know, for when something makes me want to puke.
Imagine the combinations when used with the
April 10th, 2007 at 10:10 pmSo, what you are saying, TJ, is that we need to nuke Islam from orbit…I understand.
I guess I’m a pack rat and, in many ways, all this mental masturbation, as I am sure Rumsfeld47 would call it, is my way to avoid until the last possible moment, to give all possible chances BEFORE you go in and go Biblical as in ‘Stamp the residue into dust’ or, as is more appropriate to this website Go MOAB on their asses.
I think war should be devastating. Would we do to the Muslim world what we were willing to do to Dresden and Hiroshima? If we didn’t nuke the Big Two in WWII would we still be fighting now?
If we don’t MOAB the Muslims are we going to be fighting this war in a hundred years?
I just want to be the voice of rationality before we go all irrational because I know what happens when I see red.
That’s all I’m sayin’…
Give peace a chance until you need to make it all go to pieces.
Tim Roesch
April 11th, 2007 at 6:23 amCommand Private Major - retired
Man, listen to yourselves in the last 10 posts or so. I guess I was wrong in thinking that those in here were capable of intelligent debate. I came in here hoping that by exchanging differing opinions there could be an free exchange of ideas. You could take some lessons from TJ. He is by far the brightest light in the string. To give you just a small example, I make a typo on Hemshimite (Hashemite) and all of a sudden you base my entire knowledge on Arabic off of a single typo despite the fact that Hashemite actually is the English translation of Memleka Al-Ordania Al Hashemia.
I had to chime one last time on Pat’s most posted link to date (me being a narcissist and all). I find it ironic that I have been labeled a narcissist from a person that posts under the name destroyer666. At least I have the humility to post under my birth name. And the same guy posts the following
“Conservatives, funnily enough, are always counseling the logic paths of common sense and a subserviience to God.”
I would never say Liberals have a monopoly on common sense because there are so many extremist liberals that are far beyond logic. To say Conservatives somehow have a corner on common sense is both self serving and ridiculous.
I was in one of my classes this morning and I read this portion of Daniel’s post “I’m still of the opinion that he really is one of those DNC-Internet-Talk Radio ‘political soldiers’ - charged with the task of monitoring and antagonizing people commenting on blogs like this.”…and they got a kick out of that. I don’t subscribe to the Democratic Party. I do find it interesting knowing the Republican candidates and trying to match one up with the folks in here. You guys have to be so angry!!!!!!
John.
I, first of all, respect your efforts to be a leader. (One of the components you missed about being a good leader is to recognize that which is correct) Maybe the whole part about don’t disrespect in public was lost on most people in here. I really enjoyed the part written by one poster about me being a kid when so many of the retorts in here are somehow validated by name-calling. This is straight out of John’s don’t do list: “You can’t even see the goal that you think you move towards… which is to prove yourself right by tearing others down.” Just about everyone in here is guilty of this and most far more egregious than my posts. But most important of all, would you please send the post about leadership to the current administration? The most inept presidency in the last 75 years could really use it. Especially in regards to the following: TRUE LEADERSHIP: Make a plan, act on the plan toward goal, assess and admit flaws in the actions or the plan, adjust, and finally meet or exceed the goal. To ask these guys to assess and admit flaws obviously takes a democratic mandate. (See firing of Rummy and the new Baghdad strategy). You will notice that the vast majority of those that post here after 130 odd posts have not explained how 150,000 US troops, with a backdrop of a significant number of those who we “liberated” are fighting and killing our troops and untrustworthiness of the Iraqi military will achieve victory. I reiterate again, it is not the US soldiers who are failing (they have done everything asked of them) it is the planners and the assessors that have failed. One day you will see this. Sometimes the devil is in the details, John. As a leader you must know if the plan is flawed, the outcome most likely will be too. Iraq has been radicalized simply by the US taking down the autocratic government. Perhaps this would have happened eventually when Saddam died or was overthrown through a coup but now the US is blamed by the world. This plan was doomed to fail as soon as the Shia took arms against us.
Greg-USA: The first part about your scenario was a joke on my part…the second part would be my reaction. It would be hard to come back for my wallet with your brains spilled all over the street. The two parts weren’t multiple choice.
To all those that have posted links for me to read, I have. Some I am still working on like the Pentagon’s New Map site. Thanks for those. I don’t discount anyone’s posts in here. Sometimes it is hard to get through the dimwitted bullshit. Oh, by the way Rumsfeldt47 I do live in Missouri. Maybe we should get together sometime, have a beer and talk about vehicle velocity and feline breeds. It would be a hoot.
Kipp…imagine if you and your leftist cohorts actually stood behind the Prez & this war…even with the slow progress & all…
Do you think Iran would still feel like they are on top of the world? I don’t.
What is insane about this is you are asking intelligent people to support a failed policy. We should not be in Iraq in the first place and this would put us in a position to thwart Iranian nuke efforts. It is the very policy you wish me to support that has allowed Iran to feel like they are on top of the world. And while I am thinking about Iran, what has ever happened to name, rank and serial number with the whole British hostage thing?
I have to admit that I am somewhat honored to be labeled as a DNC stooge, not because I am a Democrat but simply on narcissistic terms. Maybe I could quit my day job. Naaaa…. Filling the minds of teenagers with tales of the Battle of Kursk and Agincourt is far more fun. Finally, to describe far left Liberals (or liberals in general) as Fascist is utterly insane. To be fascist you have to uphold either nation or race and most liberals would wish to see a decrease in nationalism. This is why many far left types wish to see internationalization.
I love how some in here have characterized me as an anti-semite. I do have problems with Zionism but saying you are anti-semitic based on that is like saying you hate America because of their past treatment of Indians. And Devil’s co-pilot’s rant about me using a passage out of the Quran (the one about Christians being closer to love and Jews farthest away) was a technique I used so not to constantly be harassed into converting to Islam. And I didn’t go around saying the whole passage, just the part about Christians being closest to love to Muslims. When you are the only Westerner the people in my village had ever seen you learn tactics to deal with your unusual surroundings.
For you Arabic speakers I leave the following. Use this if you are patrolling in Iraq and you will get nods of approval (not a joke).. Koolena bini Adam.
All the Best,
Kipp
April 11th, 2007 at 6:52 amPS I should have said the last 10 posts directed specifically at me (not the last 10 posts overall),
Kipp
April 11th, 2007 at 6:56 amKipp’s last big post: 1,148 words. I shit you not.
Kipp, WWW.YOURETHEMANNOWDOG.COM
April 11th, 2007 at 7:28 pmKipp - “Man, listen to yourselves in the last 10 posts or so. I guess I was wrong in thinking that those in here were capable of intelligent debate.”
Again you insult others trying to place yourself on a higher level. You also continually reassure us how educated and world-traveled you are. Would my opinions have more meaning to you if I told you how many places I had lived or how many degrees I pursued in a shorter period of time than most? Would you accept my opinions more easily if I told you my high IQ number? Education is not indicative of intelligence, though John Kerry wouldn’t agree.
“Greg-USA: The first part about your scenario was a joke on my part…the second part would be my reaction. It would be hard to come back for my wallet with your brains spilled all over the street. The two parts weren’t multiple choice.”
Great, then you should have spilled my brains to begin with. Chances are pretty good I wouldn’t have been able to come back and attack you again. You are correct; it wasn’t multiple choice. We don’t always get second chances and when it comes to defending the greatest country on this planet you shouldn’t shoot for second. By the way, I also controlled you by making you use my full name on here. I got you twice, and the second time you didn’t even realize it. I should have told you to call me “mommy”.
“But most important of all, would you please send the post about leadership to the current administration? The most inept presidency in the last 75 years could really use it. Especially in regards to the following: TRUE LEADERSHIP: Make a plan, act on the plan toward goal, assess and admit flaws in the actions or the plan, adjust, and finally meet or exceed the goal.”
Bush should do more. He should take the handcuffs off the troops and let them do their job instead of trying to appease the left. I would love to see every one of our enemies fear touching a hair on an American’s head. As for being the most inept president in the last seventy-five years, you have to be kidding. What did Clinton do to make any of this any better?
Clinton’s plan:
Make a plan: Nah, I am leaving office and want to do so on a high note.
Act: I can’t; I have no plan.
Goal: huh?
Assess: Nothing to assess; we have no plan. Wait, assess? Yea, there are some fine ones around here!
Admit flaws: Heh… are you kidding me?
The Dow broke a record ONCE after eight years of Clinton’s office, and he was on the way out when that happened. The Dow broke a record, what, FOUR TIMES in the sixth year of Bush. I guess you can write that off to all of the evil money-grubbing capitalists who are only in this for their own greed. That’s pretty easy to do. It’s also pretty easy for Clinton to leave office saving face while letting Bush deal with the Cole attack instead of going after the attackers. Hell, later on Clinton claimed he tried… he failed, but at least he tried. That’s all that mattered; he tried.
The left, and you, do not care about success or winning; it’s all about how hard you tried. If you always try and never succeed then you should give up trying, unless it makes you feel good about yourself. You need to re-read John - PA’s post about task VS. goal oriented.
You are not like most leftists I have met but still similar in your tasks. We listen to you but you do not listen to us. I am tired of you now.
632 words.
April 11th, 2007 at 9:44 pmKipp - “I was in one of my classes this morning and I read this portion of Daniel’s post “I’m still of the opinion that he really is one of those DNC-Internet-Talk Radio ‘political soldiers’ - charged with the task of monitoring and antagonizing people commenting on blogs like this.”…and they got a kick out of that.” - April 11th, 2007 at 6:52 am
What is that line from Forrest Gump (1994)? - “stupid is as stupid does”
Well, you are obviously ‘monitoring’ this blog… and you sure do antagonize at least ‘one’ person (me) who submits comments here. It really doesn’t matter whether or not you’ve a ‘direct-line’ to some DNC ‘coordinating operative’ or not. You are, in fact, doing exactly what I’ve accused you of - exactly what you’ve been ‘indoctrinated’ to do… all of your life.
If you were really teaching your ’students’ how to think for themselves, think critically, you would be teaching them to be equally skeptical of YOUR motivations and intellect - as apparently you’ve taught them to be skeptical (and dismissive) of mine.
Of course it’s real easy to be the ‘final arbiter of wisdom’ in front of a bunch of ‘children’… right?
Yes, speaking for myself, I am incredibly angry. The ‘debate’ for me was over long before you were (probably) born.
Evil is as evil does.
Don’t bother submitting one of your ‘epic’ replies to this. That “longer the answer the better the answer” nonsense is just more Leftist ‘intellectual’ snobbery.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:05 pmDaniel -
That “longer the answer the better the answer” nonsense is just more Leftist ‘intellectual’ snobbery.
BRAVO!
(think of a clinton, gore or kerry speach as evidence)
April 12th, 2007 at 12:11 pmHmmmm….
what would be a good term to describe a person who reads his internet posts to captive students that are actually there for other reasons than Big Brother editorials?
April 12th, 2007 at 12:13 pmDaniel - ” If you were really teaching your ’students’ how to think for themselves, think critically, you would be teaching them to be equally skeptical of YOUR motivations and intellect - as apparently you’ve taught them to be skeptical (and dismissive) of mine.”
Extremely well said! When I present facts to people I tell them not to believe me, but to go look it up. Hell, I would be equally bothered by someone completely believing anything I presented as that means they aren’t really learning.
April 12th, 2007 at 8:44 pmYou guys are hillarious, I didn’t read the whole post to them. I just read the part about me being a DNC operative and the reason they laughed is because I teach so even handedly. The real humor, however, is how many people in here can make assertions without having all the evidence. It really tells me a lot about your ability to make proper analysis. How about that for a short, concise post?
Kipp
April 15th, 2007 at 12:17 pmKipp, here’s the problem bud, we’re in iraq, regardless if the invasion was a bad idea or not. ok, so we’re in iraq, a country whose future is up for grabs and being competed for by several different interests. lets identify these interests and use the power of analysis to determine what iraq would look like with these groups in control, but first the groups who are primarily fighting against the iraqi government for power: Badr Brigade, funded primarily from iran and is the military wing of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq; Mahdi Army, a group whose loyalty is to that of shiite cleric muqtada al sadr who has close ties to iran; Al Qaeda in Iraq, whose loyalty is ultimately to usama bin laden. The forces that the previous organizations are striving against are: the elected iraqi government headed by the president Jalal Talabani and the prime minister Nuri al Maliki, the government has close ties to the US; the US itself whose vested interest is in the elected government of iraq whose security depends in large part to the presence of american military power. ok, these are the primary competing interests, now lets look at what iraq would look like if the US were to leave and the Iraqi Government were left to fend for itself. Scenario one; terrorism would explode in iraq, what we’re seeing now would be dwarfed in comparison. the iraqi military would disintegrate without the american firepower to back them up. a hostile regime which would be virtually indistinguishable from iran would establish itself, declare victory over the infidel crusaders and their iraqi collaborators, demand the destruction of israel, and announce the rebirth of the caliphate and command that every muslim in ever country should rise up in support of it, leading to the capitulation of surrounding countries due to overwhelming popular islamic nationalistic fervor. Europe will be paralyzed by islamic insurrection and terrorism, Russia and China will assure the protection of the new caliphate due to the overwhelming amount of world petrol reserves in the region and to unseat america as a superpower. The risk of a joint Russian and Chinese retaliation will effectively halt any US involvement in the middle east and elsewhere, leaving Israel defenseless and at the mercy of an incredibly hostile regime whose stated goal is the eradication of Israel. Scenario two; the US withdraws from iraq, a rainbow descends from heaven, aliens land in baghdad, and peace is declared around the world.
April 15th, 2007 at 3:11 pmKipp - It seems like you are seeking not only our approval but that of your students as well. Why don’t you give them this web site and let them come here and read and decide for themselves? I bet that will make for an interesting class room discussion.
April 15th, 2007 at 3:56 pmKipp
You are true to every lib behavior I’ve known. Conclusion: you’ll never get it! Its just not in you.
You’re not capable of understanding that every plan is flawed. You are so smart you can’t get that!
Your problem - as is with all libs - is you can only accept perfection. This is why all libs hate so much. The hate is from within toward self first because you can’t live up to your own expectations of self. With no other way to redeem self, you revert to imposing the need for perfection onto others. This subtle but consistent behavior is why libs like you can only point to the problem. This is why libs can never commit to a goal and develop a plan to get to a goal. Again, anyone will be proven wrong in their plan – always. Libs just can’t accept that, so they don’t publicly set plans because they cannot accept being wrong.
Again - you approach a problem as all libs do. That approach is - throw the baby out with the bathwater. Because libs never set a goal you never commit to the goal. Therefore, you can only wait to point out the flaws of those that do commit to goals and publish plans toward goals.
Therefore, the only thing good about a lib is that they confirm what we already know. That we are flawed! This however presents a problem… libs are baggage. That is, they add no value. There is nothing new in the analysis. There is nothing of additional value that didn’t already exist.
If you weren’t so committed to the left, you would stop talking about how we shouldn’t have been in Iraq from the start. Its of no value - except to shoot at the goal maker. I’ll remind you that the goal maker was collectively our government.
What really makes me disgusted about libs - when the plan gets messed up you show your spinelessness by tossing the goal and try to tout this stand as having courage. Libs have no staying power. Libs back down from every challenge. And the rationale? Its not worth it. Well, if libs were so smart then they would have seen the lack of worth from the start.
To directly address your response to me…. WE don’t need to include assessment of CORRECT in our planning steps. Rational decision making of moderates and conservatives is naturally and innately based on best assessment of correct. When you have principles and live by right and wrong this comes natural. HOWEVER, I understand why its important for you and other libs to have “correct” included in planning steps. Its because determining “correct” is a task that has sub-tasks so it must be included. Again, this is because libs must determine what is popular before they know what “”correct”” is. . Again, you like all libs do not know right and wrong, and right is redefined based on circumstances and popular opinion.
Finally, Bush has more leadership qualities than any other currently in govt. I see this as absolute in all areas of his behavior. I’m sure you are appalled, and will therefore classify me as a flawed individual that just needs some insight to be brought around to the “”correct”” thinking.
Again, Kipp you do serve a purpose.
Thanks
April 15th, 2007 at 4:35 pmCourage:
Yes, we are in Iraq. What a friken’ shame too. I will give you the fact that pulling out would result in some first class ugliness. However, I will contend that those who’ve led this war and made decisions are some sad “deciders”. What we see going on in Al-Anbar with the Sheiks fighting Al-Qaeda is being done without US support. That is exactly what we need and it doesn’t involve US blood and sweat. Some smart guys in the US should be working on some constructive ways to bring down the Iranian Theocracy and I’m not seeing a bunch of creativity, to be honest with you. I have been watching the Iraq War being fought by the World’s finest and decisions being made by the world’s worst. I wish I could just sit here and tell you “sure, man, let’s keep whipping that mule” but I don’t trust those bastards in DC making the decisions.
Greg: I would no more give my students this website than I would the DailyKos. The last thing they need is to be polarized at the age of 17. There will be plenty of time for that. I come here to get a “conservative” perspective and do a little debating.
Kipp
April 15th, 2007 at 4:40 pmKipp: you glittering jewel of colossal ignorance!
There is one, and only one, aspect of this ‘WAR’ that was fatefully and horribly underestimated by this current Administration; and that would be the degree to which ‘moronic’ lawyer/politicians, ‘treasonous’ entrenched leftist bureaucrats, and ‘elitist’ hypocritical TV/newsprint media personalities would work feverishly to undermine our efforts to win this war. Not to mention the ceaseless ‘whining’ from political/military anal-retentive “expert” little s**ts like you.
Have you even bothered taking a cursory glance at any of the ‘posts’ here lately?
I tend to restrain myself when composing opinions for use ‘out here’ in the ether of the web, but if I ever were to meet you out in the real world…? I would surly put rumsfeld47’s use of ‘colorful’ language to shame.
Mr. Dollard, ‘they’ throw obnoxious drunks out of bars everyday in this country, surly you can see by now that Kipp’s “intoxicated Liberalism” has ceased to be useful or entertaining. He is in desperate need of the ‘bouncers’ boot here!
April 16th, 2007 at 9:41 amKipp doen not need to go. His spew is proof.
He serves a purpose. He proves the he and libs like him:
Can only blame.
April 17th, 2007 at 8:53 amCan’t solve anything.
Thrive only on their own fullness of self.
Think they have facts, but have only twisted unfounded logic.
Have the mothering gene - “must protect my students”.
Can banter only about tidbits in the past.
Can only participate when they think they are superior.
Can only consume and cast FUD (Fear, Uncertanty, and Doubt).
Can never show real results.
Can stand in a position only when they know popular opinion.
Can only attack the victim if they defend the perputrator.
Can only accept one sided opinions - all others are not allowed.
Apply the perfection rule only to others.
Work to shut down free speech because opinions disagree
Can only take jobs with captured audiences.
Can only take jobs where accountability is nonexistent.
Are self serving to the extreme
Practice creation of victims.
Tell “created” victims that libs will protect them.
Treat anyone who disagrees as ones that need to be enlightened to the more intellectual way.
Always live in an ideal world - reality doesn’t count.
Don’t listen unless you are in agreement with them
Redefine right and wrong to fit circumstances and suit their rhetoric.
Give greater rights to violators than to victims.
Can argue a point with conflicting rationale and never flinch or see the hipocracy within self.
…
…
Finally, they just can’t get it because they’re too full.
Are all you people blind or just stupid?
From the original post:
Fascism…it’s literal definition.: ” A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. ”
This is exactly, exactly, EXACTLY the Bush administration! They’re the fascists!!
July 7th, 2007 at 9:52 am@kenny dean: I’d love to know how we’re under a dictatorship. Specific examples please. I’m all ears.
(I’m, of course, betting I won’t get not even one.)
July 7th, 2007 at 11:20 am