Ghost Detainees
Report: 39 Secretly Imprisoned by U.S.
Jun 7 06:42 AM US/Eastern
By RAPHAEL G. SATTER
Associated Press Writer
LONDON (AP) - A coalition of human rights groups has drawn up a list of 39 terror suspects it believes are being secretly imprisoned by U.S. authorities and published their names in a report released Thursday.
Information about the so-called “ghost detainees” was gleaned from interviews with former prisoners and officials in the U.S., Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Yemen, according to Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and four other groups.
“What we’re asking is where are these 39 people now, and what’s happened to them since they ‘disappeared’?” Joanne Mariner of Human Rights Watch said in a statement.
CIA spokesman Paul Gimigliano said “there’s a lot of myth outside government when it comes to the CIA and the fight against terror.”
“The plain truth is that we act in strict accord with American law, and that our counterterror initiatives—which are subject to careful review and oversight—have been very effective in disrupting plots and saving lives,” Gimigliano said. “The United States does not conduct or condone torture.”
Information on the purported missing detainees was, in some cases, incomplete, the report acknowledged. Some detainees had been added to the list because Marwan Jabour, an Islamic militant who claims to have spent two years in CIA custody, remembered being shown photos of them during interrogations, it said.
Others were identified only by their first or last names, like “al- Rubaia,” who was added to the list after a fellow inmate reported seeing the name scribbled onto the wall of his cell.
But information for at least 21 of the detainees had been confirmed by two or more independent sources, said Anne Fitzgerald, a senior adviser for Amnesty International.
President Bush acknowledged the existence of secret detention centers in September 2006, but said that the prisons were then empty.
Bush said 14 terrorism suspects that the CIA had been holding, including a mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States, had been transferred to military custody at Guantanamo Bay for trials.
Fitzgerald said she wasn’t convinced that the sites were ever emptied, and claimed a program of secret detentions was ongoing.
“We wanted (the detainees’) names in the public eye because of the impression that this is over, this is finished, and they’re not doing this anymore,” Fitzgerald said. “That’s clearly not the case.”
Detainees on the list include Hassan Ghul and Ali Abd al-Rahman al- Faqasi al-Ghamdi, who were both named in the 9-11 Commission report as al-Qaida operatives.
Another is Mustafa Setmarian Nasar, a jihadist ideologue named as one of the FBI’s “Most Wanted Terrorists.” U.S. officials have confirmed that Nasar was seized in the southwestern Pakistani city of Quetta in November 2005, and the activists’ report said that he was taken into U.S. custody after his arrest, citing unnamed Pakistani officials. His current location is unknown.
Also missing is Mohammed Omar Abdel-Rahman, the son of the Omar Abdel- Rahman, the “Blind Sheik” behind the first plot against the World Trade Center in New York, the report said.
Most of the 35 other detainees mentioned in the report have been previously identified, with the exception of four Libyans, alleged members of the al-Qaida-linked Libyan Islamic Fighting Group.
The report says they were handed to U.S. authorities and have not been heard from since.
The four other groups involved in drafting the report were the Center for Constitutional Rights in New York, the Center for Human Rights and Global Justice at New York University’s School of Law, and Reprieve and Cageprisoners—both London-based rights groups.
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i hope they are lying 6 feet down in concrete face down ass up with a pig snout shoved up their ass
June 7th, 2007 at 6:43 am39 Mutants…
Let’s all fret and worry that 39 creatures are alleged to have disappeared. Have the “human rights” groups checked any caves in Waziristan?…
June 7th, 2007 at 6:44 amI hope and pray that there is a program of secret detentions going on. If a lot more of this shit was kept secret, the USA might be able to get something out of these terrorist shitheads. I picked up some new torture methods on the history channel last night,and I would like to see them implemented at these secret sites.
June 7th, 2007 at 6:59 amIf you ain’t done nothing wrong, you ain’t got nothing to worry about. But if you have, your sorry ass should be strapped to the board and caned until you figure it out.
I guess I’m too dense to understand.
Any liberals out there?
Can you explain to me how disappearing this vermin is a “bad” thing.
Hello…..any liberal will do……..anybody……..I’m waiting…….just chime in………take your time, I’ll be here all day.
June 7th, 2007 at 7:05 amwhat i want to know is where was human rights watch when our troops were kidnapped? and for that matter, where where the aclu, red cross, amnesty, and all those other supposed human rights organizations.
June 7th, 2007 at 7:14 amI think maybe we should be thinking along the lines of Cpt. Cook in the Phillipines. There were some muslims creating havok way back when. Cpt. Cook butchered pigs, greased up the muslims, killed all but one and let them rot in the sun for a while. He let one live to go back and tell his buddies what happens when you mess with America. Maybe we should make a video of this and send it UPS to the caves in Afghanistan. What can brown do for you.
June 7th, 2007 at 7:56 amUnfortunately that was before we became a PC nation.
I’m sorry… but I think the lefties would like us to hold prisoners in better care than in our own U.S. jails & prisons… IMO there’s not a thing wrong w/ that picture IF all of those guys were guilty as charged.
AND why on earth should we make public names of who we have captive in a time of war?!!! Give the enemy names that they will want to barter for w/ hostages?!!! Better for the terrorist to disappear one by one.
JLHowell, you’re right THAT type of behavior and only that type would make a sound w/ these pigs. This is an Old Testament like enemy which understands only death.
June 7th, 2007 at 8:26 amI started this thinking damit more classified leaks errr Libby gets 30 months, NYT staff get a warning after being begged not to release classified info MULTIPLE TIMES, Newsweek straight making sh*t up Koran flushing, CIA leaks everywere, Senator Rokefellar leaking Stealth Satilite secrets, Sandy Berger stealing historical classified materials getting a mere TEMPORARY loss of clearence THEN THEN I nearly spit out my coffee on this part.
“Others were identified only by their first or last names, like “al- Rubaia,” who was added to the list after a fellow inmate reported seeing the name scribbled onto the wall of his cell.”
I am left after that wondering is “Kilroy” “Ala Baba” and “sinbad” on that list.
WHat a f*cking joke these people are, some un-named prisoner says he say X mystery named carved on his cell wall and this is good as gods word to print as fact. Pitifull. They should be charged anyway.
June 7th, 2007 at 9:47 amSadly, they probably aren’t “Ghosts” yet…. What we need to do is make ghosts out of all of them.
June 7th, 2007 at 9:56 amWell, I think I’ll go make a BLT and feel sorry for them.
Legally this shouldn’t happen but thats as far as i go in sayin this is bad. anyone who uses a religion as an excuse to kill innocent people arent human, in turn dont deserve human rights. by the way where the fuck is the human rights watch when al queida’s cuttin heads off
June 7th, 2007 at 10:01 amOh, now there’s a perfectly rational group: Human Rights
Watch….What they are really all about is everybody else’s rights…and not ours.
Isn’t it interesting that these motherfuckers afford and accord more rights to baby-killers and murderers like the 39 Jihadis in question and not fucking word is given about beheading US or Coalition troops.
I hope those 39 pigs are getting a toast of the kind of justice that they deal out to others.
A little spin around the Saddam-O-matic perhaps?
June 7th, 2007 at 10:55 amWell, I *was* a liberal until 911 and I started researching to figure out how in the name of anything holy, humans could do such a thing. Were my eyes opened!!!!
I think the liberals need to see the videos of beheadings and torture performed on our own on CNN, and the ilk before they also begin to see that we are not fighting with people civilized and socialized as we are from childhood. We are fighting for our lives against an enemy who was socialized and civilized by power hungry mullahs who lied and convinced children that this type of brutal behavior toward non muslims is a Good Thing. I just don’t think liberals get that…yet. We need to tell the media to broadcast what they’re doing to human beings and why.
Hope that helped and I apologize again for my thinking that all humans are the same in their heart. Maybe we are, but the babes are too impressionable and end up in an entirely different place.
Janica
June 7th, 2007 at 11:03 amboo hoo hoo poor little terrorist is disappeared, please someone tell me where they are so we can kill those muther F&&&kers!..and the whiny wench who is whining about them..
feed them all bacon.
oh yeah, must read
June 7th, 2007 at 11:25 amhttp://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/06/document_iran_c.html
Center for Constitutional Rights in New York, the Center for Human Rights and Global Justice at New York University’s School of Law, and Reprieve and Cageprisoners—both London-based rights groups.
Why do these alleged rights groups ignore vistims, piss all over victims, never step up for the innocent beheaded, while they protect the lawless?
Answer: Liberlaism
June 7th, 2007 at 12:27 pmcool, i think we should keep them in a small box!
June 7th, 2007 at 12:46 pmMartyr = dead terrorist
The world needs more martyrs! Who are we to argue?
June 7th, 2007 at 12:57 pmI’ve got a question directed at soldiers,
If you find torture and holding people in sub-par conditions acceptable, do you think it is right for our enemy to do the same to our captured soldiers? Or would you rather support a standard that both sides must abide by with regards to POWs?
June 7th, 2007 at 1:53 pm“Oh, now there’s a perfectly rational group: Human Rights
Watch….What they are really all about is everybody else’s rights…and not ours”. - DAN
Yep… b/c afterall we’re all seen as U.S. capitalistic pigs and not human unless we support them & all they spout.
I wish there was a way to sift the good groups from the b.s. ones.
June 7th, 2007 at 2:10 pmBoo Friggin Hoo! Terrorists haven’t been seen or heard from–that was the whole idea. Like some astute poster here said, why don’t you go look in jizfrickastan if you’re so worried about it?
June 7th, 2007 at 4:19 pmSorry, that was Jizzfrickastan. No offense intended.
June 7th, 2007 at 4:22 pmre ERIC
you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about
“If you find torture and holding people in sub-par conditions acceptable, do you think it is right for our enemy to do the same to our captured soldiers?”
??? you ignorant asshole, you sound like murtha and kennedy
and do you really think these subhuman child raping pig fucking murderous animals would adhere to the geneva conventions? you are so lost in a world of naive bullshit I can barely believe you are smart enough to remember to breath
June 7th, 2007 at 4:27 pmEric gets the award for Moral Equivalency of the Day. And the answer to your question Eric is a resounding YES, we would be thankful if our captured soldiers got the same treatment. Now inhale…….exhale….inhale…..exhale…repeat.
June 7th, 2007 at 4:35 pmSteve in NC,
A question is not a statement, a question is a question. I did not make any statements, I simply asked what I think is a legitimate question. Forget Al Qaeda, forget terrorism. Do you support having standards of detaining POWs? That is the question. Stop whining.
June 7th, 2007 at 4:38 pmfuck the left.civil war anyone?
June 7th, 2007 at 4:39 pmYou know, I think that I would rather be kept in subpar conditions then have my corpse drug through the street or be beheaded for someone’s political agenda. It just goes to show you who the savages are. There is only one true terrorist, Alah, and Mahammid is his representitive, and a pedophile…
June 7th, 2007 at 4:59 pmYour ‘question’ was answered, Erica. Now a question for you, “How does cutting off heads, murdering civilians or wounded soldiers in ANY possible way correlate to pressuring or holding suspected terrorists in “sub-par conditions” ‘ ??????????????????
June 7th, 2007 at 5:03 pmOur urges may be to torure these assholes that we pick up in the desert in some secret installation in Poland, but then we have to be willing to accept the same treatment at the hands of our enemies.
There is a reason that these guys are being held in secret, and its not so we can give them foot baths.
The point I’m trying to raise is, when calling for the blood and torture of insurgents, beware because it’s a double edged sword.
June 7th, 2007 at 5:05 pmYou should tell the terrorists that too, Eric.
June 7th, 2007 at 5:17 pmYOU DIDN’T ANSWER THE QUESTION ERIC!
Can’t you handle answering the question????
June 7th, 2007 at 5:18 pm“then we have to be willing to accept the same treatment at the hands of our enemies.” Is THAT your answer?
So because they’re held and questioned “extensively” we have to accept that our wounded soldiers will be MURDERED? Is that what you meant Eric?
Be glad I can’t come through the screen…..yet. You’ve shredded any ounce of human decency you may have ever possessed.
June 7th, 2007 at 5:29 pmWe’re not cutting peoples heads off Eric! We’re not about that. Our treatment of these people is FAR SUPERIOR to way our enemies treat our people! I invite you to watch a video of THEM sawing off someone’s head, AND THEN SAY WHAT YOU SAID! I promise that would change you’re perspective.
I got screwed around here and posted this on another thread. Sorry guys…!
June 7th, 2007 at 6:16 pmIve been away from my computer for a while, otherwise I’d have responded earlier Infidel. Sawing someone’s head is a terrible way to kill and the people who do so should be punished. The aweful things that the scumsucking extremists do to us in Iraq should be condemned by anyone with half a brain. This, however, should have nothing to do with the way we act in our own lives, it can provide motivation, but shouldn’t be done by us in ANY way. This is what separates us from them. This is the whole reason why we are going to places like Iraq, to wipe these sick basards from the face of the Earth. When we torture them right back, we become no different from them.
You also said that we treat them better than they treat us. Do we? You are only speaking based on your knowledge, right? What about what is going on in thes clandestine detention facilities, what do you think is happening there? I can almost guarantee you that after a week or so of some hard-core CIA “interrogation”, these guys would be begging to have their heads sawed off. Some even have commit suicide under CIA detention.
Im not saying I’m for or against it in a time of war, it may in fact be a necessary evil, but whether it happens in our jails or in their’s it’s all the same thing, it just serves a different purpose.
June 7th, 2007 at 9:04 pmI live in Poland, I’d happily tortue these people in my 450 sq. foot secret location of an appartment.
June 8th, 2007 at 2:59 americ -
earlier post from me was censored, it featured a lot of severed heads and my request for you to ask them your question
“You also said that we treat them better than they treat us. Do we? You are only speaking based on your knowledge, right?” >>> where is your knowledge from? (answer please)
mine is from someone that could easily be in that pic above. I will hold his word above that of a ‘journalist’ or organization with a biased agenda.
I think the pic is of a transport plane taking the animals to wherever.
you think what we do to obtain information, cold rooms, holding head underwater, loud music, disinformation etc is the equivalent to what is done to our soldiers? really? ever talk to someone who has seen the torture rooms? no sign of the geneva conventions there, what
about the two soldiers from the 101st taken last year in an ambush, they were ’slaughtered’ as the members of the religion of peace describe it, severed down to the finger joints and then dumped in a booby trapped pile in the street. you think we do this to those that we capture? you go on and on like we are facing an enemy that would respond in kind to our treatment, you think that because that is what they do in the media, make statements that some brutality was done in response to some action on our part. they are playing the media here to win the war by getting people like you to question us, to give the socialist, soros paid, fascists in our government reason to speak out against America.
you have never faced a true life threatening conflict, you have lived in the grace of this great country, protected and defended from those that would easily slaughter you for their own gain, and in such protection you have no concept of the depths of evil that can exist
or simply, grow up
June 8th, 2007 at 3:39 am-screw any torture, screw any info they might have just kill them(and eric, there is no “easy way to die”)
-eric, i have never heard of an american pow being held in accordance with the geneva conventions
-and when I was checking to see if i was spelling geneva conventions correctly, i clicked a link from the (society of professional journalist//www.spj.org/gc.asp) the header is completely disrespectful. do they not have a picture of a real american soldiers fruit salad, do they not care what those ribbons mean. thanks “journalist” feel free to make up what ever you want
June 8th, 2007 at 6:08 amIf you look at all my previous comments, I never once said that IF we treat their guys better, they will treat ours the same. I know that they will never adhere to the Genevea comventions, they are scum. We, however, are morally superior and have better standards.
And as to whose torture is worse, torture is torture no matter hw you break it down. Mental torture can be just as bad or worse than physical. Imagine being held in a cell with about three feet of water in it in either complete darkness or flooded in inense light at completely random times. You cannot lie or sit down because the water will be above your head, you cannot sleep. You are in a cell like this for days at a time, and have no idea how long you have been there as you have no sense of time. Sporadically you will be removed, possibly drugged, questioned, and then put back in the cell. Occasionally sounds and harsh music will be blasted into the cell.
After a week or two of this, you would be begging for the joint and head treatment.
Torture is torture, pick your poison.
June 8th, 2007 at 8:18 amGeneva Convention applies to POW’s, not unlawful enemy combatants out of uniform of a sovereign nation. Eric, you are swimming in waters above your head. Hamdan v. Rumsfeld is the latest S.Ct. pronouncement on the subject, with subsequent legislation by Congress to correct “problems” presented by S.Ct. in Hamdan. You don’t know what you are talking about. Comparing our soldiers to enemy combatants is apples and oranges. Dimwitted people like you equating our soldiers with these freeform terorist enemy combatants is causing half the problem. No comparision. You don’t get what the whole subject is about. Dumb **** enemy combatants don’t get Geneva Convention treatment (even though we volularily agreed to it for Club Gitmo), they don’t get US citizen due process rights, they don’t get habeas corpus. Therefore, they get whatever we decide to give them. YOU ARE AN ***HOLE. You THINK you know what you are talking about, but you don’t.
June 8th, 2007 at 9:11 amyep, scaring someone to start talking is the same as shackling them to the floor and pouring lighter fluid on them and then lighting it, of course not enough fire to kill them
yep, keeping someone from getting sleep is the same as using a power drill on them
yep, you are so naive it is dangerous
any idea how we train our soldiers to obtain info without using physical torture?
ever talk to someone who has gone through that?
Eric you need to deal with the reality in the world, we have the most advanced society the human race has ever seen and you are one of the many who have enjoyed a life in this country that has protected you and provided for your in such a way that you are now unable to comprehend what evil lurks outside the wire.
You think imposed mental stress is the same as physical torture?
Does bad music = dismemberment in your world?
June 8th, 2007 at 9:15 amYou underestimate the power of the mind, Steve. The mind is what tells you when to feel pain and how much pain to feel. When you torture the body, your mind is telling you it hurts. When you torture the mind, you are going right to the source. That is why people go crazy in solitary confinement. Death is a blessing in certain situations where the mind cannot function properly. I have read alot about the subject of torture methods and psychology (I admit, I have never myself been tortured or tortured somebody). Psychological torture is not an easy thing, and is it certainly no worse than physical torture. Faced between being isolated from society and having my world turned upside down in solitary confinement (described above)indefinitely vs. having my head sawed off, I’m not sure I can tell you what is the worse of the two. I can certainly tell you which is gorier, but not which is worse. Don’t minimize the power of psychological torture.
And Carol C, I think you may just be bitter bacause I tore your arguments to shreds the other day. I’m not talking law and statutes about who is technically a POW and who isn’t. I’m talking about people, and torture.
June 8th, 2007 at 9:46 amTo eric. I agree that torture is bad, although we can debate on what torture is. I do agree that some people will torture our guys now matter what we do, and that they just get pleasure out of it. I hate the idea of torture, but think that slightly rough interrogation is okay if it gets information.
June 8th, 2007 at 10:16 amEric-
You underestimate the power of the mind to adapt and heal.
Therapy can be applied to help those that still have their head attached.
I think you define the quality of life on your terms, to fit in what you find appropriate, I would not be surprised if you considered abortion appropriate for children that are to be born into poverty or with some ailment. You appear to me to be a liberal who believes he can make judgments that I reserve to a spiritual power.
June 8th, 2007 at 12:10 pmI don’t know everything about torture and interegation of detainees. However, there are a few things I do know. I know how proud I am of our military. They demonstate and abide by a code of integrity and ethics far above any of our enemies. War is tough–it is not pretty. People die and get hurt in wars. There is no question that our country approaches war with extreme civility. Now of course that civility does sometimes include bodily harm–after all we are still talking about a WAR. Our guys are very aware of the Geneva Convention –they are very aware of the rules of engagement. My husband told me that in Desert Storm they took in so many POW’s that just surrendered. They fed them and gave them shelter. He said they were never mistreated. In fact they were told the better they treat the POW’s the easier their jobs would be because–surrendering wasn’t so bad–they got a meal and medical treatment…. something many weren’t getting from Saddam.
June 9th, 2007 at 7:47 amEric–it is almost impossible to not resort to comparing which is the worst kind of torture. As I stated before, this is a WAR. People are going to get hurt–so it is a question of brutality. Our detainees are not going to be comfortable. We are not going to give them a balloon and wish them well. Yet we are not going to behead them either.
Our military is incredible. I wish everyone could appreciate how amazing our troops are. Within an hour–these guys can be expected to visit an Iraqi school so they can be serenaded by a classroom of children, pass out candy to children on the street—then take out a sniper without hesitation. (This was a day in the life of my husband recently). Do people get that? Do they get what is expected of our guys? To be the epitamy of compassion and caring—yet stay sharp enough to be ready for a battle at all times.
And it really makes me angry when they are constantly judged and second guessed by people who sit here on this side of freedom’s shores. These “intellectuals” who have the luxury to sit in the safety of their homes—because my husband is over there putting his life on the line. Don’t you think he’d rather be home too? Don’t you think he’d rather be surrounded by our children—and be here when they learn to walk, ride a bike, and drive a car. (Yes he’s missed all those milestones during this conflict alone). Don’t you think he’d prefer to sleep in his own bed at night? Yet he is over there fighting for us—for you. He is doing what he thinks is right—he is doing it not for the money or because he loves shooting guns. He does it because someone has to–and he has the integrity and character to take on that responsibility.
I also know this for a fact….take me and Army wife and the wife of an insurgent (just pick any one of them). If her husband is detained she will be scared and worry about his safety—but chances are she’ll see him again. If my husband were to be captured while in Iraq……..well we all know the outcome. He would not be returned alive. This is the facts—so yes that does make us better. We cannot be compared to our enemies—it is not even close. And for those who keep trying to sound scholarly and PC and say that we are all the same—you really need to grow up. You need to stop being a naive punk who exists with a sense of entitlement. You are given a gift every day. A gift of freedom. And instead of trying to repay the gift or even give thanks–you ask for more and belittle the gift-bearer. You’re just like some punk kid who has all the answers–but really hasn’t the knowledge or experience to know how much you don’t understand.
phew…I’m done. You’ll have to forgive me when my posts are a little disjointed—-when I get angry the words just tumble out—and I just go with it.
eric why do the terrorists torture people? and then why do we torture prisoners?
who are our prisoners? who are theirs?
are we a country? are they?
we torture and humiliate to get information with the assurance that they will be treated well if they give up information. they torure to inflict pain and terror. thats from the quran in order to make them feel “subdued”.
they take civilians or combatants and do these god awful things to intimidate us.
they are of no country and therefore do not fall under the geneva conventions, as such they are called enemy combatants rather than prisoners of war. we put them in secret prisons to avoid organizations like the aclu sticking their noses into interrogations.
Islam has for centuries been killing and torturing people innocent or not simply because they are not muslim. it is no coincidence that most muslim lands that have some semblance of islamic law, are among the most lawless, warring societies in the world. the live for death and murder, it is their trademark. we cant possibly defeat these animals if we dont use harsh tactics at some point. read the book infidel to see the kind of training mujahideen get. they are trained to lie and lie and lie. “war is deceit” as muhammed said, and their goal is to kill non muslims or muslim collaborators where ever they find them, and to die if necessary, they are committed and only psychological and other means of deprivation will evr get the truth out of them.
I understand , that westerners like to think of ourselves as morally superior; gentlemen and women who play by the rules of war etc, but when your opponent is of an opposite mindset, the rules of war that govern your operations, can become useless. our tactics are still more humane but they are not what we would prefer to do.
I personally think they should all be isolated, no qurans , no prayer rugs. only three meals a day, and no fellow muslim contact only soft music to calm their minds. send in buddhist chanting music if necessary. perhaps show them videos of how well adjusted peace loving people live, like the amish.(they even look like muslims)perhaps show them old episodes of leave it to beaver. no threat of death but no violence either(thats why no quran)all humans desire human contact from time to time.
as for american jihadists, i say chop off their nuts and send them off to pakistan wearing a burka.
whats the purpose? conversion? yes conversion to humanity
June 11th, 2007 at 5:41 amI’ve had a longstanding policy not to argue with idiots (Eric). I violated it. I shall not longer do so.
June 11th, 2007 at 10:44 amDitto for me.
June 11th, 2007 at 10:46 amHeather,
June 11th, 2007 at 4:06 pmYou don’t know me, you don’t know what I’ve done, so please don’t act like you do. You start off by saying that you don’t know much everything about torture and interrogation but that you are proud of our military. CIA is not military, and that is who I am talking about, please read my previous post before you get all emotional on me. I do and will awlays support our troops, who happen to include one of my closest friends and members of my own family (I just did the Camp Pendleton Mud Run last weekend for instance). This discussion has nothing to do with troop support (including your husband). I take issue with some of our strategies in this War on Terror. Does this make me a traitor because I am not throwing my blind support behind everything our government does in this war? I don’t think it does. There is no definitive right and wrong in military strategy and war in general, it is mostly a murky grey area. Is it so wrong of me to question certain practices that fall into this grey area in my own individual struggle to come to grips with this war? I am simply trying to stay true to myself by grappling with these difficult issues that we all face in life rather than hiding from them, and for you to say that I am a self-entitled punk for trying to do so, I think you are wrong. Maybe you just don’t get that two different people can support the same outcome but can have slightly different ways to achieve that same outcome.
the cia has alweays worked hand in hand with our military since they are the ones with the intelligence that the military builds its strategy on. the problem with the cia is people like valerie plame who wish to make money off their experience at the expense of national security rather than fulfill her oath to our country. the cia protects us while we are not at war as much as they do while we are.
spies are a necessary evil when you have rogue countries around the world.
June 11th, 2007 at 11:45 pmI still don’t think Eric or “Another E” gets it, despite TJ & Heather’s rather eloquent explanations. The freaking spies and assasins have been spyin’ and assasinatin’ since the beginning of time. Yes, Virginia, we have spies and assasins and people that do dirty work. If we didn’t, we’d just be playing with our hands tied around our backs. This is nothing new. Just the media wants to debate it and the anti-US forces use it against us. What ever works, they say. Eric just plays into their hand. LIBERAL MANTRA: “Wha-wha-wha, I support the troops (they’re people too), I just don’t support the war…”
June 12th, 2007 at 8:59 pmLamplighter–eloquent…..thank you. I do consider that a compliment from one who writes many eloquent posts.
I agree I don’t think Eric or Another E , or Another Eric, or My Other Brother Eric gets it. Maybe one day he will. That is why I chose not to respond to his post previously.
Eric—- I said my piece–my position is clear. I choose to spend my time DOING something productive during this war. Mainly, raising my sons to be men of integrity like their Dad, sending care packages to my husband and other Soldiers and Marines, and collecting school supplies for one of the Iraqi schools my husband visits.
). These suggestions to get involved with something productive is not meant to be condescending…just some ideas—for everyone.
June 13th, 2007 at 8:54 amI challenge you and all those with same views and rhetoric to put your money (and time) where your mouth is. You support our troops?—then support them. Send care packages and letters of encouragement. Donate phone cards or new and used books and DVD’s. Foster a soldier’s pet while he is away. There are so many things we can do to support our troops—need resources? Ask me and I can connect you with the right people. Also you feel for the innocent civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan….? So do I. So does my husband and the men he works with. I think you would be surprised with how many military wives are collecting donations for Iraqi children and families. Our husbands tell us of the people they meet—they want to help. They ask us to help from our end—from our land of plenty. Again, get involved. Be proactive…..collect and donate school supplies, support the Christian movement in Iraq….
I actually understand you Eric…better than you think. I don’t think you are a bad guy…I think you actually want to do what’s right. I personally just think you are misguided…I assume you are young because you seem naive. I used to be also (naive that is—I think I am still young