Iraq: Blackwater Out In Six Months, Pay Each Family $8 Million
BAGHDAD (AP) - Iraqi authorities want the U.S. government to sever all contracts in Iraq with Blackwater USA within six months and pay $8 million in compensation to each of the families of 17 people killed when the firm’s guards sprayed a traffic circle with heavy machine gun fire last month.
The demands—part of an Iraqi government report examined by The Associated Press—also called on U.S. authorities to hand over the Blackwater security agents involved in the Sept. 16 shootings to face possible trial in Iraqi courts.
The tone of the Iraqi report appears to signal further strains between the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and the White House over the deaths in Nisoor Square—which have prompted a series of U.S. and Iraqi probes and raised questions over the use of private security contractors to guard U.S. diplomats and other officials.
Al-Maliki ordered the investigation by his defense minister and other top security and police officials on Sept. 22. The findings—which were translated from Arabic by AP—mark the most definitive Iraqi positions and contentions about the shootings last month.
The report also highlights the differences in death tolls and accounts that have complicated efforts to piece together the chain of events as one Blackwater-protected convoy raced back toward Baghdad’s Green Zone after a nearby bombing, while a second back-up team in four gun trucks sped into the square as a back-up team.
The Iraqi investigation—first outlined Thursday by The Associated Press—charges the four Blackwater vehicles called to the square began shooting without provocation. Blackwater contends its employees came under fire first.
The government, at the conclusion of its investigation, said 17 Iraqis died. Initial reports put the toll at 11.
It said the compensation—totaling $136 million—was so high “because Blackwater uses employees who disrespect the rights of Iraqi citizens even though they are guests in this country.”
The U.S. military pays compensation money to the families of civilians killed in battles or to cover property damage, but at far lower amounts.
The United States has not made conclusive findings about the shooting, though there are multiple investigations under way and Congress has opened inquiries into the role of private security contractors. Last week, the FBI took over a State Department investigation, raising the prospect that it could be referred to the Justice Department for prosecution.
The Iraqi government report said its courts were to proper venue in which to bring charges.
It said Blackwater’s license to operate in Iraq expired on June 2, meaning it had no immunity from prosecution under Iraqi laws set down after the fall of Saddam Hussein in 2003.
The government report also challenged the claim that a decree in June 2004 by then-Iraqi administrator L. Paul Bremer granted Blackwater immunity from legal action in incidents such as the one in Nisoor Square. The report said the Blackwater guards could be charged under a criminal code from 1969.
U.S. Embassy spokeswoman Mirembe Nantongo said the diplomatic mission would have no comment on the report. Iraq’s Interior Ministry spokesman, Abdul-Karim Khalaf, said the document was in American hands.
The report found that Blackwater guards also had killed 21 Iraqi civilians and wounded 27 in previous shootings since it took over security for U.S. diplomats in Baghdad after the U.S. invasion. The Iraqi government did not say whether it would try to prosecute in those cases.
Be respectful of others and their opinions. Inflammatory remarks and inane leftist drivel will be deleted. It ain’t about free speech, remember you’re in a private domain. My website, my prerogative.
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Maliki needs to worry about Iran and shut the FCK UP…That SOB is so freakin useless, watch and see who’s back pocket he’s in…If Iraq were not so violent, they would get respect…jackasses have got so many other problems there, but for some reason they want to lean on Blackwater….You know some backdoor crap is going on with Porky Al Sadr.
October 8th, 2007 at 1:01 pmWill this mean AL Qaeda in Iraq pay $8 Million to each person they slaughtered in Iraq also? Makes you think?
October 8th, 2007 at 1:10 pmBlackwater is Bad for America
Their force has no SOPs, they can carry any weapons they want, and, and least until now, they have been totally unaccountable for their actions in theater. They act like cowboys, not professionals.
The Army and Marine Corps have a certain authority in security matters. The Army is trained to perform patrols, convoy operations, and secure towns. This is the prescribed task and duty of the Armed forces in Iraq as an occupation force. The authority of the Army and Marine Corps is undermined significantly in the eyes of not only the service members, but in the minds of Iraqis. As Iraqis witness the different forces behave in different ways their perceptions will change accordingly. When “Blackwater” engages in questionable tactics they de-legitimize the expert jurisdiction of the Army and Marines. Why hirer them in the first place? Their contract with the defense department only serves to suggest that the DoD does not have full faith in their armed forces to do the things they train for. Blackwater employees also present a bad example for our soldiers, as they skip to the front of the line at the DFAC, drink in the barracks, and react with a cowboy mentality to situations that require cool heads and calculated decisions. Contracting out security and convoy operations to private companies undermines the Army’s authority. The best thing the DoD can do is to dump the contract and invest the however many billions of dollars that they spend on them where it belongs: on our soldiers in the Army and Marine Corps.
October 8th, 2007 at 1:30 pm“Their contract with the defense department only serves to suggest that the DoD does not have full faith in their armed forces to do the things they train for.”
Me: Wrong. DOD does not have the assets to do the job Blackwater does.
Blackwater employees also present a bad example for our soldiers, as they skip to the front of the line at the DFAC, drink in the barracks, and react with a cowboy mentality to situations that require cool heads and calculated decisions.
All the Blackwater employees that I know were training in the military before you were even a glaem in your fathers’s eyes. Those that I know got 20 years of experience, that includes combat experience in the Marines and Army. They were snipers, Battalion Commanders, Company ommanders…etc.
You can say what you want about Blackwater, but for the people that I know that work there; you’re full of shit.
And if anyone is bad for America it is you. Your opininions vis vis the ME, jive more with the irhabis and the surrender monkeys who don’t know shit either.
October 8th, 2007 at 2:44 pmOne other thing. If the Iraqi government wants to take a chance on running security for their own government, then go ahead and kick out Blackwater.
But they got mighty big shoes to fill. Blackwater has NEVER lost a person that they were in charge of protecting. Can al-Maliki duplicate that record? I doubt it. Let’s see him cry the blues the first time a VBIED hits one of his people or better still hits him. Fucking dipshit.
October 8th, 2007 at 2:50 pmThanks Dan, I thought I was going to have to go off…
You forgot to mention the navy seals are withg Blackwater as well
“and react with a cowboy mentality to situations that require cool heads and calculated decisions”..
Boy you have no idea how much more qualified they are to deal with that security situation. I don’t know what makes you perceive that crap, but for those who are in or around that community, you sound really stupid.
October 8th, 2007 at 3:22 pm“This is the prescribed task and duty of the Armed forces in Iraq as an occupation force.”
and ANOTHER thing!!
Another sign of your ‘leftist’ indoctrination and general full of shitedness…”as an occupation force”.
October 8th, 2007 at 3:43 pmThe term “occupation” carries with it the very direct meaning of denial of sovereignty; requiring (Geneva Convention IV) the ‘occupying power’ perform ALL the functions of government in such territory. In this case the Iraqis.
That ‘denial of sovereignty’ ended with the first election.
The history of Blackwater’s actions in Iraq speak of the lack of discipline and disregard for the rules of war.
I am not contesting the patriotism of blackwater employees, I am questioning whether their use is beneficial to members of the military and Iraqis. We all know they are ex-special forces, seal, swat and a range of other special tactics groups. I am talking about policy, not individuals.
How does wishing that the DoD had spent all that money on something else, maybe body armor, for our troops imply defeatism? Boy, that’s a stretch.
“Boy you have no idea how much more qualified they are to deal with that security situation. I don’t know what makes you perceive that crap, but for those who are in or around that community, you sound really stupid.”
More qualified than who? Our soldiers? What makes you think that reacting like rambo to minor contact is going to do any good? Is spraying rounds into crowds of civilians anyway to win the hearts and minds of Iraqis? For the price that our government is paying, Blackwater has cost America immeasurable political capital, both in Iraq, at home, and abroad. I’m sure you’ve all seen that picture of an Iraqi child hiding behind an infantryman after a suicide bomb attack. That’s what I’m talking about. That’s the kind of perceptions we need to build, where Iraqis trust Americans to protect them. The last thing we need is a small group of cowboys to ruin a great chance for success in Iraq.
October 8th, 2007 at 3:58 pmthe surrender monkeys who don’t know shit either.
I suppose your referring to your family too, because of your 98 % of shared DNA
October 8th, 2007 at 3:59 pmDan,
fortunately you work in an administrative office, and your speech excesses can be hurful only for your image
your cousin… the surrender monkey
October 8th, 2007 at 4:20 pmI consider the treatment of Blackwater USA by the press and the Iraqi government to be not only offensive but defamitory and counterproductive as well. I want you all to get a good look at these pictures and then think over very carefully why when shot at Blackwater personell acted as they did in this recent incident. Oh by the way please ignore the nature of the website and its left wing screed (aztlan) I put that site up because of the graphic nature of what actually happened to the 4 Blackwater soldiers, the barbaric nature of the incident. Feel free to be angry and to take these pictures and create a counter article to the ones put forth by the Lib Drive by Scum media. http://www.aztlan.net/torched_hung.htm We need to fight back and snub this lefist generated “outrage” over an incident where in return fire was not only justifiable but more importantly necessary.
October 8th, 2007 at 4:49 pm“Blackwater has cost America immeasurable political capital, both in Iraq, at home, and abroad..”
Why? Because you say it’s true?
No it hasn’t.
Fucking whiner.
October 8th, 2007 at 4:54 pmDNA?? Monkeys??
No Frenchie… this kind
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j97/stars5501/chirac.gif
October 8th, 2007 at 5:00 pmNOBODY ACTED LIKE RAMBO / NOBODY SPRAYED ROUNDS INTO A CROWD
f*CKING PERIOD….
It takes one person to embellish a story, and 1 million parrots to repeat it until all believe its true
October 8th, 2007 at 5:34 pmfranchie :
“Dan,
fortunately you work in an administrative office, and your speech excesses can be hurful only for your image”
Hey shithead, you don’t know a damn thing about who or what I do. So STFU.
As to my image…I could care less what you or any other leftist, socialist prig thinks.
I know many Blackwater employees. You know nothing about them except what you read in your leftist papers or on TV 24.
And you take the comment of an idiot phony American like الٲمريكي (The American) and are unable to tell the difference between truth and a lie.
This kid who commented, don’t know shit either. Not about Blackwater or the people that work for them. I don’t give a fuck whether he’s in country or not.
You ain’t my cousin…bitch. Go back to your wine and cheese, when you get over that synapse problem of yours feel free to stop by.
If you like being bitch-slapped some more, feel free to make more stupid comments.
October 8th, 2007 at 6:19 pmHey الٲمريكي (The American):
You are a phony. You ain’t no American. You are a bullshit artist. Let’s take a poll here. All those who think this fucktard is a phony American say aye.
October 8th, 2007 at 6:23 pmsully:
This الٲمريكي (The American) is a damn phony. His rhetoric betrays him/her/it. If he/she is wearing a uniform, he/she needs to be let go ASAP. But I doubt that he is. Or perhaps he’s just another loser Tommy Tentpeg in the rear with the gear.
October 8th, 2007 at 6:27 pmDan,
fortunately you work in an administrative office, and your speech excesses can be hurful only for your image
And how would you know what I do for a living frenchie?
Having dellusions of adequacy again cousin?
“I suppose your referring to your family too, because of your 98 % of shared DNA”
Nice attempt at an insult. No I’m talking about you, and all other leftists like you, whether they live in the EU or in America. At least my family has guts enough to fight for their country…which is more than I can say for the cheese eating frogs in your country.
And الٲمريكي (The American): You’re a phony. You ain’t no American. You’re a jihadi.
October 8th, 2007 at 6:45 pmI have double comments in here. Double the pleasure, double the fun.
October 8th, 2007 at 6:59 pmFrenchy:
Let’s see if I remember my French correctly. franchie=crossed and franchise=frankness.
You know you wouldn’t be so crossed if you’d shave your pits once in awhile, get rid of those nasty cigarettes and brush your teeth garlic eater. Of course with you Belgains it’s probably a family thing.
You can be frank if you want. What’s the word for surrender in French again? Oh, yeah isn’t it “collaborator”. Quisling perhaps? You Belgains are good at that. Much like your French cousins in gay Paris?
Ok, I’ll be French just this time Stupide salope.
Feel free to comment further fucktard. I look forward to insulting that piss yellow flag of yours.
October 8th, 2007 at 7:26 pmAYE..to the goat face f*cker
October 8th, 2007 at 7:26 pmSomewhat related. Who’s got the best native Police Force in Iraq? Interesting story from Michael J Totten:
October 8th, 2007 at 7:33 pmhttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,300052,00.html
“This الٲمريكي (The American) is a damn phony. His rhetoric betrays him/her/it. If he/she is wearing a uniform, he/she needs to be let go ASAP. But I doubt that he is. Or perhaps he’s just another loser Tommy Tentpeg in the rear with the gear.”
Yes I do wear the uniform, and I am God damn proud of it. I’m sure you’d be surprised to know that there are many others around me who feel the same way about blackwater. And fortunately for us, many in Washington feel the same way.
Instead of addressing the issue at hand, you engage in character defamation and childish diatribes. You use logical fallacies to make your points. False dilemma’s abound, where if I don’t agree with you 100% then I must be a “jihadi.” Grow up. This is not high school anymore kiddo. The big kids can see through your false logic and silly insinuations.
And just to let you know, the American flag’s colors, and their meanings, are derived from the French flag.
October 8th, 2007 at 8:41 pm“The big kids can see through your false logic and silly insinuations.”
Well us big kids can certainly see through yours. They abound in the two topics you’ve commented on; ‘Palestinians’ and Blackwater. Dan answered your ‘point’ re Blackwater and he is quite right that your rhetoric betrays you.
“And just to let you know, the American flag’s colors, and their meanings, are derived from the French flag.”
Uh no. They aren’t. Here you commit the fallacy of ’similar’ means ‘identical’. It doesn’t.
Just on ‘colors’ of the French flag; the blue is the Church of Rome, the white symbolic of ‘virgins’ and the red represents Christian martyrs. That “flag” was originally three ribbons tied together and given to France in the Middle Ages. It was not used by French Kings much if at all (each King having pretty much his own flag) and, if memory serves, wasn’t resurrected until the middle 19th century. AFTER the adoption of the stars and bars.
On the Stars and Stripes the blue is vigilance, perseverance and justice, the white is purity and the red is hardiness and valor.
October 8th, 2007 at 9:59 pm” You use logical fallacies to make your points.”
WHAT?… Forget it, don’t answer, just go away parrot.
“Yes I do wear the uniform, and I am God damn proud of it. I’m sure you’d be surprised to know that there are many others around me who feel the same way about blackwater. And fortunately for us, many in Washington feel the same way.”
Okay, well you hurry along now…BYE BYE
October 8th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
جيمهذا هو اسمي
October 8th, 2007 at 10:41 pmAzzam (the American) - [I’m just guessing since I don’t read Arabic.]
So if I am to understand what you are saying…
Rhetoric: Blackwater are a bunch of immature cowboys with no discipline?
Fact: Blackwater contractors are the EXACT same retired and Veteran soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen, SWAT team guys, Coastguardsmen and Special Operations operators that you praise so highly. Their tours with the military are complete or they have already put in 20 years and retired, and they are therefore permitted under the democracy that they have all fought to defend (the very same democracy that provides you the forum to run your ill-informed pie-hole) to go off and take those skills to the private sector and continue to protect Americans in a hostile land. Do you think that all of these guys just flipped a switch in their heads after they got out and said “I’m going to go to go to Iraq so I can be a cowboy?”
Rhetoric: The DoD should not spend money on these guys.
Fact: The DoD DOESN’T spend money on these guys. The Department of STATE, a NON-military organization with their own security service, which contractors AUGMENT does. If you think that it would be in the taxpayer’s best interests to convert all of the contractors providing security to federal service GS-13’s with full medical, dental and federal retirement benefits, then do me a favor and get that law passed. I’d be happy to take my own 13 years of military service and trade it in for federal retirement. However, I would be willing to bet, that it would cost we taxpayers a WHOLE bunch more than it does to pay the contracting companies to perform this task.
Rhetoric: Their force has no SOPs, they can carry any weapons they want, and, and least until now, they have been totally unaccountable for their actions in theater. They act like cowboys, not professionals.
Fact: You could not be more WRONG in this assertion. I wonder where you get your information from? Code Pink’s website? There are STRICT, Department of State written SOP’s, rules of engagement, and weapons limitations placed on the contractors in country on the contracts you question. Their weapons are issued by the US Government. As far as unaccountability? Well, you need to take that up with the US Government, Department of State and Justice Department. Not the private corporation with no law-enforcement capabilities that provides the manpower to those federal agencies.
Rhetoric: The history of Blackwater’s actions in Iraq speak of the lack of discipline and disregard for the rules of war.
Fact: You are exactly right. Zero casualties among the people that they protect, over 16,000 missions run with only fewer than 200 shooting incidents, in a war zone DO speak volumes to their “Lack of discipline”. Let’s not forget the Medevac of the Polish Ambassador the DAY after BW was raked over the coals in Congress… and the Medevac of countless other AMERICAN wounded, the singlehanded defense of the CPA compound in Najaf (while the Spanish sat on their asses and hid) because it was “too hot” for the US military to go in and bail the State Department personnel out. Yep, lack of discipline is definitely reflected in those actions…
The “rules” of war that you have pointed out, are being followed so closely by the people who blow up women, children, and OTHER MUSLIMS in a “defensive jihad”. When was the last time that you survived a VBIED? What qualifies you to even have an opinion on what constitutes a reason to shoot?
EVERY time a weapon is discharged by a contractor, whether it result in a loss of life or simply punching holes in the radiator of a potential VBIED that is too close to the convoy, there is a report written by the people involved and submitted to the State Department for adjudication. Weapons are not discharged until AFTER the target vehicle is waved off, or having had a completely non-lethal water bottle thrown at them FIRST. It is called escalation of force, and is included in the SOP’s that you claim they do not have.
Rhetoric: More qualified than who? Our soldiers? What makes you think that reacting like rambo to minor contact is going to do any good?
I’ve already addressed their qualifications…
Define “minor” contact please. If you have ever BEEN in contact, you would know that being shot at or blown up is never minor.
Hey, I have an idea. If you feel so strongly about these issues, why not run down to your local recruiting office and put your money where your mouth is? EARN your right to dissent and experience it all first hand. That way you would actually be informed enough to have a QUALIFIED opinion on the matter instead of merely attempting to stir up a biased discussion based on uninformed information.
You claim to be in uniform. Who’s uniform? The people in Washington DC who you also claim to ascribe to your point of view have probably never been to Iraq to be protected by the very people that they disapprove of and they tend to form their opinions based on what they are fed by the media… who, by the way, have their own agenda.
I suspect that if you ARE in uniform, then you are one of those disgruntled folks who got themselves into something that turned out to be not nearly as romantic as you thought it would be. A punk is still a punk, in or out of uniform.
October 8th, 2007 at 10:44 pmالماعز مواجهة الحبانت(you are goatface f*cker)
Damn, I have fun!
October 8th, 2007 at 10:49 pmKufir Ken, Well written and nicely said …:beer:
October 8th, 2007 at 11:05 pmSully…Kudos, your quite informative on history
October 8th, 2007 at 11:26 pmDanny boy is having a problem of beer consummation tonight ?
ah yes, he has no job !
if you want to find a job, kiddie, moderate your language ;
try to get a fair approch and analyse of your life, because if you don’t, the possible employers will
now, if your looking for a job, you can send me an apply, I’ll see what I can do for you
October 9th, 2007 at 1:50 am“Just on ‘colors’ of the French flag; the blue is the Church of Rome, the white symbolic of ‘virgins’ and the red represents Christian martyrs. That “flag” was originally three ribbons tied together and given to France in the Middle Ages. It was not used by French Kings much if at all (each King having pretty much his own flag) and, if memory serves, wasn’t resurrected until the middle 19th century. AFTER the adoption of the stars and bars.”
a few errors though ;
the link with US is Lafayette, he is the one who put the “tricolor” french flag during the Revolution and back a few decades later
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/fr.html
http://www.elysee.fr/lapresidence/index.php?mode=symboles
October 9th, 2007 at 3:18 amFrenchie:
Got news for you liberal. I am gainfully employed. BTW, are you enjoying your job at the Belgain bakery that you work at? Maybe if you work real hard at it, you can get a job as a delivery person….
And if you study real hard froggie, maybe one day you could actually be adequate..
Moderate my language? Now why would I want to do that? It’s so much fun insulting you.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:07 amWell said gents. This Azzam the American is no patriot. I don’t give a shit whether he wears a uniform or not. He ain’t one of us. He’s a phony American, who should be discharged immediately for the good of National Security.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:16 amThat, by the way can be arranged.
if I were your employer, I would be worried of the produce you are giving him back though
if you have nothing better than insulting me then you are a poor man, I pity you, oh well, I don’t care anyway
October 9th, 2007 at 7:33 amFrenchie:
“if I were your employer, I would be worried of the produce you are giving him back though”
me: Once again fucktard you have no idea.
“if you have nothing better than insulting me then you are a poor man, I pity you, oh well, I don’t care anyway”
I’m neither “poor” nor am I in need of your pity..foolish woman. And once again, much like your pathetic rhetoric, your English sucks.
Good. Glad you don’t care. That makes two of us.
October 9th, 2007 at 8:18 am“a few errors though ;
the link with US is Lafayette, he is the one who put the “tricolor” french flag during the Revolution and back a few decades later”
Frenchie:
The statement made that I was responding to was that the American flag derived *FROM* the French flag.
The American flag became our official flag in 1777. The only use by France of anything remotely close to its design prior to that time was the ‘ribboned’ flag (not rectangular but more like a pennant) given the French by a Pope sometime prior to 1000 A.D. with the ‘meanings’ of the colors as I described.
The French tricolor became the official flag of France around the middle of the 18th century… a good seventy years or so AFTER the Stars and Bars had become the official American flag.
As for Lafayette, I wouldn’t care to demean his contribution or ‘friendship’ with our Revolution. He took a blue and red flag (which were the colors for Paris) and added the ‘Royal White’ for what was a limited time. The French government, in my opinion wanting to associate itself with its own revolutionary roots, took that flag, rearranged its colors and made it official. As I said, quite a while AFTER 1777.
October 9th, 2007 at 8:23 amsully
can you provide a link, this “ribboned flag” story is new for me,
in the first link I provide, if you look indide there are many diverse flags that are shown, but none with “ribbons”
October 9th, 2007 at 8:52 amsully:
Good historical summation. As to Lafayette and the other great French patriots that helped us with our revolution,
they were “mighty men” unlike the metrosexuals that exist in France today with the exception of the Sark-meister and his foreign minister.
Frenchy can’t relate dude. Patriotism to her is just another rhetorical excercise. To us it is who we are, what motivates our actions, it is the sum total of honerable service to the greatest nation on the earth.
Frenchy will never identify with anything that trancends self. That is typical of spoiled brats, who live and breathe the fresh air of freedom, because of the sacrifice of our military…and of the undying commitment on the parts of men like Lafayette to make this freedom an eduring
legacy for all time.
Noam Chompsky might have the ears of fools like her. But he does not have the hearts and minds of patriots…who despite Chompsky’s Paladin dellusions keep proving over and over again that another “great generation” has aquired the spirit of the bayonet, of courage and of self-sacrifice.
We patriots can do no less but pass the baton and hand off the guidon. It’s in good hands. And Lafayette can rest easy.
October 9th, 2007 at 9:04 amWell said Dan. I do hope that “And Lafayette can rest easy.” proves true. When I try and imagine the world my children and grandchildren will live in, well I can’t recall feeling more uneasy. But then that is what this fight is all about. As FDR said in a fireside chat on September 11, 1941 (coincidence eh?):
“There has now come a time when you and I must see the cold, inexorable necessity of saying to these inhuman, unrestrained seekers of world conquest and permanent world domination by the sword: You seek to throw our children and our children’s children into your form of terrorism and slavery. You have now attacked our own safety. You shall go no further.”
October 9th, 2007 at 10:17 amFrenchy:
“can you provide a link, this “ribboned flag” story is new for me,”
No. That information did not come from a “link”. It came from one of the finest education systems in the world and was reinforced this afternoon by a friend with an extensive knowledge of flags of the world. That friend emailed me the following picture of the French flag at the time the American flag was designed; showing the complete lack of ‘derivation’.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j97/stars5501/frenchflag.png
He did confirm for me the red, white and blue pennant was given to Charlemagne by Pope Leo III however (but not used very much except in Paris after eliminating any connontation to ‘virgins’
), so perhaps a bit more research on your own country’s history might be beneficial.
My original objection to the arab fellas assertion that the American flag was “derived from the French flag” stands.
October 9th, 2007 at 10:33 amSully or Silly, what a question
so, I can see you are rather prompt to congratulate your twin instead of showing the source of your “argutie”
now, about “ribbons” : these were used for professional orders (alike companionage…)
instead of flags we could say rather “étendard” (standard) : each noble in chevallery had his own
as far as the royaulty, the typical blue with lis flowers appears in XIIth and remained till revolution
the blue color was newly avoidable at that time
October 9th, 2007 at 10:40 amand indeed the church with the pope tried to forbidden it, arguing that colors are pagan
so I made a reply that crossed yours
anyway, the flag your fellow show you was rather the navy flag
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/fr~mon.html
as far as Charlemagne :
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/fr_orif.html
October 9th, 2007 at 10:57 amsully:
Love the FDR quote. Coincidence? FDR had a good sense of history. His social policies sucked, but he was someone made for his time.
More good flag notes:
George Washington is credited for saying: “We take the stars from Heaven, the red from our mother country, separating it by white stripes, thus showing that we have separated from her, and the white stripes shall go down to posterity representing Liberty.”
It’s possible that the banners carried by the various US units at the time had both German and French symbolisms.
Makes perfect sense because the chief trainers of the Continental Army were French and German.
The symbolism runs deep. The traditions from those early days of the revolution, remain.
I wouldn’t waste my breath with Frenchie. Her head is too thick to allow any real facts to filter through. She just ain’t smart enough to get past her dellusional thinking. That’s what happens when useless societal fucktards get exposed to socialist propaganda all their lives. Eventually they get stupid enough to buy into it.
And Blackwater is still better than anything Azzam the phony American can put up.
October 9th, 2007 at 12:11 pmHer head is too thick to allow any real facts to filter through.
luckily you didn’t say dick head ; that’s almost you, just a word though
October 9th, 2007 at 12:32 pm“I wouldn’t waste my breath with Frenchie.”
Ah but it’s fun. If it weren’t, I wouldn’t bother. She can be counted on to pipe in anytime France is mentioned and then show a nearly complete lack of a sense of French history, aesthetics or phylosophy (sic).
“And Blackwater is still better than anything Azzam the phony American can put up.”
Roger that.
October 9th, 2007 at 1:07 pmet la mauvaise foi americaine is kind of “mise en bouche”
I notice it’s fun, try to watch the borders though
:261:
October 9th, 2007 at 1:53 pmFrenchie, Frenchie, Frenchie….
Still won’t ‘give up the ghost’ eh?
If you will actually READ the link you provide it was both the civil and the naval flag. Representative of royalty which was the civil and military authority of France *prior to 1789*.
And as I said the ONLY time a red, white and blue flag was part of French history *PRIOR TO 1789* was a flag given to France, Charlemagne in this case, by the Church of Rome, Pope Leo III in this case. I never implied that France ever used that flag or pennant or in any way made it an official flag of ANY French king. Quite the contrary. The American red, white and blue *PRECEDED* any *USE* by the French. And the *meanings* were quite dis-similar. Your tricolor was used intermittently between 1789 and about 1850 at which time the colors were re-arranged and it was made the official flag of France.
K? We done or is Dan right again?
October 9th, 2007 at 1:56 pmyeah, and you seem aware of pipes,
how did you guess it’s my business ?
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/7194/corps02cos6.jpg
October 9th, 2007 at 2:10 pmwhen you really make an effort, your understandable
anyway, my english still sucks, its not my major matter I am afraid, only the business
October 9th, 2007 at 2:16 pmFrenchy:
“luckily you didn’t say dick head ; that’s almost you, just a word though”
ROFLOL. My, my is the French whore getting personal now. Your intellect is so inferior. LOL
suuly:
She always tries to get the last word in. It’s part of that ignorant Parisian mentallity of hers. No doubt she works as some Paris resteraunt as a fucking waitor that overcharges all the non-Parisians. What a loser.
October 9th, 2007 at 2:17 pmpar contre Dan, t’as pas inventé le fil à couper le beurre ; je crainds que t’as de trop gros pieds, et en plus ils sentent mauvais
October 9th, 2007 at 2:25 pmfrenchie:
“anyway, my english still sucks, its not my major matter I am afraid, only the business”
That’s right it does suck.
“and bad American faith is kind of “put in mouth”? WTF are you talking about dumbass?
How’s those French unemployment benefits? Still living off the state?
October 9th, 2007 at 2:26 pmFrenchie:
Pauvre petite fille française si petite… tellement peu d’intellect. Je n’ai pas su que vous avez eu un tel facination des pieds.
Chow petite fille.
October 9th, 2007 at 3:36 pmA fetish perhaps? Or just ‘hopeful’ Frenchie??
October 9th, 2007 at 3:59 pmDan, you practice the bias too, essayes encore une fois, t’as pas bien tout compris
October 9th, 2007 at 4:10 pmSully, do you usually serve the soup to Dan ?
a sully question
October 9th, 2007 at 4:34 pmserve the soup? no honey. that’s your job.
October 9th, 2007 at 5:06 pmFrenchie:
Still trying to put an intelligent thought on paper? Keep trying sweet cheeks, maybe one day you’ll come up with one.
What kind of soup you serving sweet cheeks. I like mine hot. You can keep that cold shit.
sully:
LOL. Like I said sweet cheeks is always trying to get in the last word. She just sucks at it.
October 9th, 2007 at 6:12 pmKufir Ken:
I just re-read your essay. Damn that was well said. Hooah!!
October 9th, 2007 at 7:53 pmDan and Sully
You guys are a F*cking hoot with Frenchie…LMAO to tears!
She hasn’t got the last word in yet 
October 9th, 2007 at 10:19 pmI have the feeling your failing though, otherwise your discourse would be “rational”, like the normal persons I happened to meet here
October 10th, 2007 at 12:50 amoops, I spoke to soon
October 10th, 2007 at 3:49 pm