Gates Sees The End Of NATO
MUNICH, Germany - Survival of the NATO alliance, a cornerstone of American security policy for six decades, is at stake in the debate over how the United States and Europe should share the burden of fighting Islamic extremism in Afghanistan, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Sunday.
“We must not—we cannot—become a two-tiered alliance of those willing to fight and those who are not,” Gates told the Munich Conference on Security Policy, where Afghanistan was a central topic.
“Such a development, with all its implications for collective security, would effectively destroy the alliance,” he added.
A central theme of Gates’ speech was his assertion that al-Qaida, either in Afghanistan or elsewhere, poses a greater threat to Europe than many Europeans realize.
“The threat from al-Qaida began with the Soviet invasion of a sovereign state in December 1979, a state that up to that point had not represented a threat to anybody in the world, except to a certain extent its own people because of its weakness and poverty,” Gates said in response to the Russian’s question.
“In NATO, some allies ought not have the luxury of opting only for stability and civilian operations, forcing other allies to bear a disproportionate share of the fighting and the dying,” Gates said.
He named no individual countries, but U.S. officials have been pressing Germany to do more.
U.S. Army Gen. John Craddock, the NATO supreme commander, said in an interview shortly before Gates’ appearance that the troops in Afghanistan would be making more progress if they had the resources they were promised more than a year ago. He said they are short at least three maneuver battalions, as well as intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance tools to track movements on the ground.
Referring to a “paucity of troops,” Craddock said the commanders in Afghanistan are like the coach of an 11-player soccer team that is competing with two players less than a full team. He said the effect is that the commanders are unable to attack and defend as aggressively as they would like.
In his speech, Gates said the Bush administration had learned from mistakes made in Iraq, including the need to more closely integrate the civilian-led stabilization efforts with the military efforts. He said the United States and NATO must apply that lesson in Afghanistan to assure success.
Gates is hoping to persuade Germans and other Europeans that they have a big stake in the outcome in Afghanistan.
“I am concerned that many people on this continent may not comprehend the magnitude of the direct threat to European security,” posed by radical elements in Afghanistan, he said.
The Pentagon chief, who was a career CIA officer before retiring in said his remarks on Afghanistan were meant to reach “directly to the people of Europe” in a bid to persuade them on the war’s importance.
“The threat posed by violent Islamic extremism is real—and it is not going to go away,” he said, adding that Europe has seen a string of terrorist attacks—in London, Madrid, Istanbul, Amsterdam, Paris and Glasgow, Scotland. And he ticked off a list of plots that were disrupted before they could be carried out, including a plan to use ricin and release cyanide in the London Underground and a planned chemical attack in Paris.
“It raises the question: What would happen if the false success they proclaim became real success? If they triumphed in Iraq or Afghanistan, or managed to topple the government of Pakistan? Or a major Middle Eastern government?
“Aside from the chaos that would instantly be sown in the region, success there would beget success on many other fronts as the cancer metastasized further and more rapidly than it already has,” said Gates.
Be respectful of others and their opinions. Inflammatory remarks and inane leftist drivel will be deleted. It ain’t about free speech, remember you’re in a private domain. My website, my prerogative.
If you can't handle using your real email address, don't bother posting a comment.
Sticking your head in the sand only encourages a bully to keep coming. You have to haul back and knock him on his ass…..or in this case, blow his ass off.
The Germans better get with the program or….learn to enjoy sex with goats.
February 10th, 2008 at 2:20 amGates listed all of the terrorist attacks up to now and in the Europeans’s mind they believe it’s all because of President Bush. Bush Derangement Syndrome is not unique to just the Democrats here in the US.
February 10th, 2008 at 3:11 amIt’s kind of remarkable how history takes its turns and reversals. I think that as the surviving German population staggered out of WWII, they had very good reason to instruct their children repeatedly that war was to be avoided at all costs. I’m not saying I KNOW that’s what they did, but rather back in the late 1940s and well into the 1950s the privations they suffered as a society, the loss of lives they had to adjust to, the shame, the humiliation, all of it would lead people to tell themselves and their children that nothing could ever be worth that kind of suffering. Tack onto that the lunacy of the GDR that permeated every aspect of East German’s lives, and you’ve got a people who aren’t likely to stick their necks out for anything resembling costly confrontations. Their martial “spirit,” if that’s even the right word for it, for so long the definer of who they were, necessarily had to be crushed in order to bring some level of stability to Europe. I don’t think it can easily be resurrected. We’re talking about a couple generations of people who took it on faith, based on the hard experiences of their parents and grandparents, that war is wrong. From their point of view, well, that’s the truth. Maybe NATO is finished.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:07 amI am glad Secretary Gates is telling them like it is. If you ask me, they’ve depended on the US to defend their SORRY asses long enough while they all go communist anyway.
February 10th, 2008 at 5:33 amLook at the cross on that tank! Does NATO not understand that all of the countries whose flags have a cross on them-among the fighting NATO forces there-are sending a clear message to the muslims of Afghanistan to join the Taliban and Al Qaeda to ‘fight the crusaders’?
It’s on their shoulder patches, too…Denmark, Norway, Greece, Iceland, the UK, Finland…
And they wonder why things aren’t going so well…
February 10th, 2008 at 6:37 amCao:
Wow, like a visible cross is going to affect whether or not the nuj fight or get more or less pissed at the West.
I got news for you. Cross or no cross the haj will fight, because that’s what his Koran says to do. Has nothing to do with politics or symbols. It’s all about world conquest and supremacy. Same as Hitler.
Wake the fuck up.
February 10th, 2008 at 7:54 amThere needs to be a new NATO…made up of member states from all across the globe who are willing to stand up to Islamic Imperialism. Let those who got balls enough to join the fight, be a psrt of it…and those that want to just go hug their trees stay in their self-imposed sheep pens.
Let those like Germany enjoy their chains, and let them suck the dicks of their Mooslem slavemasters. They can go buy their own “lotion” (a ref to a Jeff Dunham joke).
February 10th, 2008 at 8:19 amKerry:
Wise words.
Dan(The Idiot):
How about you joining the Army yourself instead of fighting Islam on the internet?
February 10th, 2008 at 9:02 amGermany is a Christian country and our values are based on the cross, always have been, always will be. We will the fuck defend it if we have to. That time hasn’t come in people’s mind yet, and yes Kerry you’re right… I am born in the 70s and it got really annoying for my generation to put up with that crap. We see no difference between ourselves and US soldiers having to battle it out for all of us. Like in the US, there are also a lot of your pacifists here, who make matters worse. But the politicians in charge are that annoying generation, that I am talking about. Franz Jung, etc… guilt-ridden and sensitive to anything combat-related. Our military is nevertheless one of the strongest, best equipped and with 250,000 pro soldiers and 300,000 reservists, ready to kick some serious ass if we have to… I don’t think NATO is dead yet.
It’s all about the CROSS, guys… wake up. Cross against Half-Moon! We know what side we’re on.
February 10th, 2008 at 9:45 amFuck that whining about the cross bullshit!!! We should be able to bring our flags and emblems wherever we have to fight!!! Fuck you and your whiney pc bullshit Cao!!! Don’t be cao-wardly. You dumb fucking freak.
Ciao
February 10th, 2008 at 9:51 amHydra:
Hey smart ass. For your information chump, I already did my 20 years in the Army. My MOS was 11C40. You familiar with that shitforbrains? And how many years do you have in the military? Or are you just talking shit.
February 10th, 2008 at 10:02 amGerman And Proud Of It:
It ain’t got a damn thing to do with the cross dumbass. It has to do with all of us and you being non-Muslim. Your theory doesn’t hold waternot in light of the first and second jihads. It’s ALWAYS been about Islamic Impearlism and world conquest. And until every knee bows to Allah and his false prophet it will always be that way.
Just for your info, in the first jihad, there was no Denmark, Germany flag with a cross on it. So then why did Muhammed and his followers attack, conquer and kill without mercy, Mecca, Medina, Syria, etc?
Had nothing to do with anything, except Muhammed’s quest for power and territory.
That quest has not changed one fucking bit. Cross or no Cross, any excuse to murder, rape and conquer is what the Mooslem Caliphters are all about.
Try reading the Koran and the Hadith. Educate yourself.
February 10th, 2008 at 10:10 amDan.. what are YOU talking about??
lol
what has nothing to do with it?? dumbass.. haha. Nice 1
I said, we will not take the cross off our tanks because it symbolizes what we stand for…
so, what are you talking about. I dont give a shit about what Mohammmad did.. nor does the German military
February 10th, 2008 at 10:22 amGerman And Proud Of it:
I disagree with your premise. It isn’t about the cross vs the new swatztika (mooslem flag)…it is an us vs them thing that the Mooslems invented in the 7th Century.
It IS a battle for the survival of the west or the suvival of Mooslem Impearilism and the quest for a Muslim Lebensraum.
That’s what the fuck I’m talking about.
Some us may be all about the cross, but not all. It may be who some of us are, but not all. Where are paths cross (no pun intended) is that we are a free western peoples.
If we wish to survive to the next millenium, we must defeat the enemies of civilization, irrespective of what our recent pasts were.
In Germany’s case, there is an opportunity here to create a whole new history. One of gallantry and courage in a just cause…rather than an unjust one such as the Kaiser or Herr Schicklegrubber or the Stasi.
I’m also German (on my fathers side). My grandmother was from the old country and was adamant that her sons serve in WWII against the Nazis. She would approve of Germany going into this war with a 30 inch step instead of half-stepping.
Time for everyone to ante-up and kick in. The US is beating the fuck out of AQI and AQA. But we could use more troops from our NATO partners.
WWII is over…get past it Germans. We trust you now. Get off your asses and kick in.
February 10th, 2008 at 10:25 am??? what are you saying, we ought to put something else on there? Would you prefer Homer Simpson?
Ok, now it makes sense… you just expanded your post. I didn’t get what you were saying.
Shake hands… i understand you, now. But still, it is what we stand for historically. Before during and after WWII. The Wehrmacht was a tool. Hitler got hold of it in 1936 and misused it. He didn’t create the Wehrmacht, nor where they all Nazis.
February 10th, 2008 at 10:29 amfor your information, it is the official emblem of the German military, always has been - its on all our equipment, not just those tanks in Afghanistan.
The Iron Cross, I am sure you’ve heard of it!
Knights in the middle-ages were wearing it, we wore it when we defeated Napoleon, it’s been around for a loooong time. We’re not gonna take it off to show sensitivity towards the mullahs.
February 10th, 2008 at 10:38 amGeram And Pround Of It:
LOL WTF are you talking about? You obviously didn’t read my previous post.
February 10th, 2008 at 10:45 amHey german, I’m with ya. Every single German Soldier I’ve met has been ready and willing to kick some towelhead ass. While I think its bizarre that France and Britain let you guys have the largest army in Europe still(they should both just have bigger ones), I think its time you guys bust it out and use it in Afghanistan.
@ German. Wo wohnen sie? I’m about to leave for Germany in a few hours for a week of training at a NATO base near the border with the Netherlands. My goal for this trip is to go check out Patton’s grave in Luxembourg.
February 10th, 2008 at 10:45 amYea, the Iron Cross is on everything. I saw some German tornadoes last time I was in Europe that they were on. It was awesome, the German pilots made their callsigns Stuka 39 and Stuka 40. Thats why I KNOW theres a lot more fight in Germany than the politicians give them credit for. If a couple German pilots are going to pull out ‘Stuka 1939′ callsigns for a NATO exercise, thats showing some balls.
February 10th, 2008 at 10:49 amGates is right. NATO’s days are numbered unless there’s a change in attitude.
February 10th, 2008 at 10:51 am@German
“??? what are you saying, we ought to put something else on there? Would you prefer Homer Simpson? ”
WTF? I don’t recall suggesting that you change your flag?
“Shake hands… i understand you, now. But still, it is what we stand for historically. Before during and after WWII. The Wehrmacht was a tool. Hitler got hold of it in 1936 and misused it. He didn’t create the Wehrmacht, nor where they all Nazis.”
Agreed. I’m well aware of German history.
I also spent time working with the German military while working in Germany. They’re good troops. Drank lots of beer and had a great time with them. We’re allies. Fuck the past.
February 10th, 2008 at 10:52 amI can’t believe all this bullshit about Germany not believing that any war needs to be fought because of WW II, whatever all this lame weird pacifist metality is over there. Grow up and face the real world and get out of your pacifist delusions.
It’ll be too bad if Germany destroys Nato now that its done destroying it’s own national dignity and honor.
February 10th, 2008 at 10:55 amCool, Dan. Resolved. Commenting overkill.. we overlapped.
Germany ain’t gonna destroy Nato, lol — there is a lot more to it then Southern Afghanistan. We currently got 3,200 troops there, and may expand it. Not fast enough, I agree. But KBoomr113 just said it, he is going for some NATO excercise in Germany just in a couple of hours (I’m not near your base, sorry bro… but have fun!)
You people bringing up WWII, German national honor etc make me cringe.. unless you’re old and grey you sound like in an old holywood movie. I am not even 35, and I honestly don’t know what this talk about our honor etc is about… makes me puke!
FYI, you should not only think of our recent past, but all that lead up to it, we have been in battle for over a 1000 years!!! Those guys you see at the beginning of the Gladiator movie, beating back the Romans and ultimately causing their demise.. they were Germans. Teutons my friend!
We got “war” in our blood, in the middle of Europe. After the industrialization, that attitude caused a few issues and made it so easy for Hitler to happen. It was good that we learned to adapt our gene-pool to modern civilized problem-solving… that’s why there is confusion here. Its like getting an old and scarred fighter back into the gang. He may well be ashamed, and hurt inside, but better watch out, who you’re dealing with here — I love Youtube. So, this should give you a little taster - just some hardware, with an iron cross on it :-):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1zV5GRImW0
Peace! Out!
February 10th, 2008 at 11:24 am@ German
Of course all this talk of honor makes you puke. You have none.
February 10th, 2008 at 11:31 amLobo3, you’re old and grey then?
…maybe fat and cowardly, too? Why talk about honor on the internet to someone you don’t know, unless you haven’t got honor yourself?
If you’re talking about Germans in general, then you may know that we tend to fight to the last man. for right or wrong. SO fuck youself beeeyatch
February 10th, 2008 at 11:43 am@German
I’m a veteran, thank you, cowardly civilian fuck.
No one’s talking about proud, dead Germans of the past, we’re talking about the fags called Germans today, and the problems of today.
You give your own surrender when you can only talk about the past.
Keep flapping, loser.
February 10th, 2008 at 11:47 amagain, you’re insulting me and my country. i didn’t call you names now, did I? Well coward is what you personally are, not all Americans taken together, like you make out about Germans, and this being on the internet, who is the loser here?
I am representing a different perspective, being German and all.. you surprized?
February 10th, 2008 at 11:57 am@GERMAN… AND PROUD OF IT
I’m also a veteran and half German. Spent lots of time in der old homeland. Like the culture, the people, the beer. and the food. My objections to current German policy on the GWOT aren’t cultural, they’re political.
What the vets are bitching about is your country’s slow response to the grave threat that we all face from Mooslem Nazis.
We rebuilt Germany and helped Germany become what it is today: Free and properous. We rid your country of the same menace to world peace that we all face today; that the world faced back then.
We also know young Germans have little or no knowledge of the past. In one way das ist good.
All we’re asking of the German government is to get in the fight, instaed of sitting in the rear guarding the gear.
Germany isn’t George Foreman. He was a big fighter who got his ass kicked in a fight once…only to return years later to become the World Heavy Weight champ.
When Germany gets on the frontline with us and fights, then Germany will be that fighter you previously described.
What was that line in Skakespere: “He that bleeds with me shall be my brother….”
February 10th, 2008 at 12:17 pmhehe GERMan you get your intronisation in the site
February 10th, 2008 at 12:24 pmWhat else did Shakespeare say? “Me thinks thou do protest too much.”
February 10th, 2008 at 12:28 pm@Frenchie
“Intronisation” Word of the day. I hope you really are French, because then you are forgiven.
But again, great word. I’m going to use it. I’ve enjoyed my intronisation to you.
February 10th, 2008 at 12:29 pmintronisation = inthronishment
glad that I made a Lobo shocked (uh, 3 times ?)
February 10th, 2008 at 1:03 pm@Lobo3
I’m not the one protesting. That’s frenchie’s job.
What’s your function?
February 10th, 2008 at 1:16 pm@Dan
Settle down, cowgirl, I didn’t say you were protesting. I was picking up on your Shakespeare reference to make the point that German was showing his guilty national feelings by protesting to the contrary too much. It’s the point of the line in the play.
February 10th, 2008 at 1:28 pm@Lobo3
Thanks for the explanation FNG.
February 10th, 2008 at 1:45 pm@Dan
No problem, old salty.
February 10th, 2008 at 1:59 pmWatch out Dan, Lobo3 is a tough guy
shame this isn’t Lobo’s local honky-tonk.. id like to introduce myself in person to him
February 10th, 2008 at 1:59 pm@GERMAN… AND PROUD OF IT
I’m with you Komrade. Great minds…
February 10th, 2008 at 2:19 pmUh, protesting means enlightening bei mir
February 10th, 2008 at 2:35 pmGermany needs to step up to the plate.
February 10th, 2008 at 2:50 pm@GERMAN… AND PROUD OF IT
“@Watch out Dan, Lobo3 is a tough guy” LOL…. Wish I was back in Germany agsin. A good German beer would taste really good right about now (I’m watching the game on TV)
American football makes me think about beer.
What do you recommend? I was in Heidleburg two years ago and all the brews tasted good to me. What’s your preference?
February 10th, 2008 at 2:52 pmfavorite beer– hmm.. I like Bock! Franziskaner for example.
Enjoy the game
February 10th, 2008 at 3:16 pm@GERMAN… AND PROUD OF IT
I’ll try it out. My neighborhood import/export store has a ton of excellent German brews. I’ve tried a bunch. They all taste good to me. That one I’ve never heard of.
We use to drink Lowenbrau. The Hanau version and the Vilseck version…and the dark version at Octoberfest.
But I’ve since tasted better. Any others to try? I’m taking notes. LOL
February 10th, 2008 at 3:24 pmIt was a good game. The Pro Bowl is usually boring, but this one was pretty darned good. Had to settle for a Becks Dark. Not too shabby.
February 10th, 2008 at 6:12 pm