‘Devil Dog’ Term Taking A Beating
From a Marine Corps Times article by By Andrew Tilghman:
Listen up, Devil Dogs. Oh yeah, that got your attention. Perhaps it even got your blood boiling? Or maybe you didn’t notice the big double-D.
Lately, reactions to the Corps’ longtime nickname generally depend on the age of the Marine listening.
A generational divide is opening around the term “Devil Dog,” which came into use 90 years ago on the battlefields of France. While it’s been a term of colloquial endearment for generations of leathernecks, some of the newest and youngest Marines say they’re tired of being called Devil Dogs. They even take offense at the term.
That came as a surprise to former Staff Sgt. Glenn Kirst, a 34-year-old financial advisor in Milwaukee who joined the Corps in 1991 and spent 10 years on active duty. He was out shopping with his girlfriend a few weeks ago when the pair passed a Marine in the parking lot of a Best Buy store.
Kirst grinned and nodded at the Marine, sporting a “USMC” T-shirt and close-cropped hair as he walked with a girlfriend.
“I said ‘Hey, there’s another Devil Dog,’” Kirst recalled. The Marine gave him a blank stare and the Marine’s girlfriend got angry. “She started shouting at me. ‘Before you make a comment like that, why don’t you grow some f—ing balls and serve your country.’”
“I was stunned,” Kirst said. “I called my friend, who is a Marine captain in the infantry. He told me the term ‘Devil Dog’ is not used much anymore, and is usually used in a negative manner. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing.
“When I was in the Corps, I used the nickname Devil Dog like a badge of honor.”
Devil Dog has been a favorite Marine expression since the bloody Battle of Belleau Wood, a ferocious World War I engagement near Paris that also left the Corps with two of its most endearing quotes. “Retreat? Hell, we just got here,” exclaimed Capt. Lloyd W. Williams, as the French fell back. Similarly, then-Gunnery Sgt. Dan Daly refused to let his men give up, shouting his motivating “Come on, you sons of bitches, do you want to live forever?”
As legend has it, this determination to win led one German prisoner to tell his captors the Marines reminded him of “Teufelshunde,” a German term translated as “devil dogs.”
The Corps ran with it, using the term in a popular recruiting poster that pitted a big Marine bulldog against a tiny German dachshund, the weenie dog fleeing with his tail between his legs.
The strange — and seemingly sudden — shift in the meaning of the term has many Marines confounded.
“Just try dropping the compliment ‘Devil Dog’ on anyone of any rank above [lance corporal.] You will get the stink eye of death. Just how this honorable moniker became derogatory, I have no idea,” wrote “Blogger X,” the pen name for a blog writer on the Marine Corps Reserve Web site, in February.
His post drew some speculation from other Marines.
“I think the backlash against ‘Devil Dog’ does begin with the leadership. [Noncommissioned officers] (myself included) use the following phrase, ‘HEY, DEVIL DOG!’ to initiate a ‘correction’ when we don’t know exactly who the Marine may be. Thusly, hearing the phrase Devil Dog creates a negative Pavlovian response in Marines. As they come up in the Corps, the response stays,” one Marine wrote.
“We may be proud of the name, but nowadays it does carry a connotation of condescension.”
One Marine major agreed that the new negative connotation stems from discipline. “It’s a preface to getting your ass chewed,” he said.
Sgt. Maj. John Estrada, who served as the Corps’ top enlisted Marine until his retirement last year, agreed that the term Devil Dog is “evolving.”
“I don’t think it resonates well with today’s young Marines. Some folks had issues with it,” Estrada said in a recent interview. “The young Marines did not understand the tradition and history of the term ‘Devil Dog,’ and they just reacted to it differently. The Marines you have to today, it’s just a different generation and maybe they don’t look at the term being used the same way.”
Love it or hate it
A quiet debate about the connotations of Devil Dog is underway on Wikipedia, a popular — but not always factual — online encyclopedia where anyone can log in and edit individual articles. The entry for Devil Dog has changed frequently in recent months. Earlier this year, the entry explicitly said: “To call a U.S. Marine a ‘Devil Dog’ is considered derogatory.”
“It is considered a diminutive, and is considered mildly insulting when used by a peer or slightly senior Marine. Its use is most common at the Marine Corps [School of Infantry], where it is the standard term of address for students.”
That was changed, however, by an anonymous editor a few weeks ago. On March 16, the Devil Dog article was revised to say that the term “was once” considered derogatory, but “now it is far more acceptable.”
To be sure, the term is not completely lost. The Corps still sanctions its use in many ways. There’s Camp Devil Dog at the School of Infantry-East near Camp Lejeune, N.C. Marines in California host a race dubbed the “Devil Dog Duathalon.” The Military Order of the Devil Dogs is celebrating 75 years.
Eric Reust, a former Marine who runs the Odyssey Tattoo shop in Jacksonville, N.C., said he’s still inking more than 100 Devil Dog images a year with no noticeable decline. “Marines are still comin’ in, ooh-rah, and they get the globe and anchor or a devil dog,” Reust said.
Charles Melson, the Marine Corps’ chief historian, said he was unaware of any new negative connotation to Devil Dog.
“It’s situational,” Melson said. “If the first sergeant says ‘Hey, Devil Dog,’ then it’s the same thing as saying ‘Hey, slick.’ But if it’s between Marines of equal rank, it doesn’t have the same meaning.
“To me, Devil Dog would refer to a ferocious nature, a fighter, someone who would never give up.”
Instead, the phrase is often used to replace “hey, stupid” or worse. It’s not the first time in recent years that junior service members began taking offense at a generic term typically used in disciplinary settings.
The Navy has had a similar problem with the term “shipmate.” Once a generic term for a fellow sailor, it is now perceived by many to be derogatory. That stems from some chiefs using it during corrections, “Get that rack squared away, shipmate!” or “What the hell did you just say to me, shipmate?” The junior enlisted sailors in turn use “shipmate” sarcastically with their peers.
Last year, senior Navy officials grew concerned about the evolving use of the term “shipmate” and laid plans to reclaim it for general use. In October, they announced an essay-writing contest on the topic, “What being a shipmate means to me.”
A goal for the contest is to “remove the negative stigma,” said Command Master Chief Tom Howard, Pacific Fleet’s top enlisted sailor, in a prepared statement.
Evolution, not revolution
Maybe the waning popularity of Devil Dog reflects how distant the World War I story may seem to junior Marines. Recruiters often note that today’s junior Marines are as removed from WWI as the so-called “Greatest Generation” was from the American Civil War.
“A lot of them don’t know their history,” Melson said.
Perhaps Devil Dog is, in some ways, politically incorrect. Resistance to it may stem from a “growing sensitivity about the use of pejorative terms,” said Mady Segal, a military sociologist at the University of Maryland.
Words come and go. Estrada pointed to the phrase “gung ho,” popularized during World War II by a Marine officer who worked with the Chinese Army.
The original meaning was “to work together.” But over the years, it took on an ironic connotation, suggesting excessive enthusiasm or overzealousness. Now, it’s rarely used by Marines at all.
“Devil Dog, I think, that’s kind of fading away also.” Estrada said. “This is all part of an evolution. Look at how our leaders are today. It used to be that you’d be scared to go see your first sergeant or your sergeant major. Today, leaders are more open-minded, more approachable. The leadership had to adjust.
“In order to be effective leaders, you have to adjust to your audience, use different techniques in order to reach them and lead them properly.”
However, Estrada added, “We need to be careful and don’t get away from our history.”
History’s not always junior Marines’ top focus, and sometimes they just get tired of feeling like some boot who just arrived at the recruit depot. To those Marines, “Devil Dog” doesn’t evoke a storied battle on the Western Front so much as a stern NCO.
“Usually when it’s coming from them, it’s because you did something wrong,” said one lance corporal based at Camp Lejeune. “We prefer to be called by our ranks.”
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What the fuck?
Umm…don’t mean to offend your sensibilities, Jarheads (and I do mean that in an affectionate but non-gay way), but you have a “devil dog” as a mascot.
Jesus, Mary and Joseph, has political correctness truly infiltrated the ranks?
April 30th, 2008 at 11:43 amNot really, it depends completly on the context in which it is used.
A proud Devil Dog.
April 30th, 2008 at 11:51 amOkay, the writer of this article is more than a little clueless. Devil Dog has been a pejorative for at least nine years (since I joined in ‘99). It has precisely zero to do with forgetting our history. Believe me, we ALL knew where it came from and were damn proud of it. In fact, Lance Corporals, Corporals, and even a few Sergeants would jokingly call each other Teufel from time to time or refer to themselves as Teufelhunden.
Devil Dog, however, was reserved for use by NCOs, SNCOs and officers who were pissed and wanted to chew your ass. It started in Boot Camp after the Crucible, when the DIs couldn’t call you “recruit” anymore, they substituted it with “Devil Dog.” Same tone. Same cadence. Same meaning (”Hey, shithead!”). The trend continued in SOI and MOS school and by the time you hit the Fleet, it was VERY clear that if the term “Devil Dog” was directed towards you, you were in deep shit.
If you were an NCO and were referred to as “Devil Dog,” it was even worse! By a peer, it was often a joke referring to some screwup (real or perceived) and by an senior, it meant that you were being patronized or shamed. By a junior, it was a smoking offense.
However, pejorative though it may be (or have become), it is a term reserved for use ONLY by Marines. We would get VERY upset if some outsider DARED to use it, especially because they would occasionally pick up on the fact that it WAS used pejoratively and attempt to use it as such, hence the girlfriend’s reaction.
So if someone wants to place blame for the decline in the term Devil Dog, it lies with unimaginative NCOs, SNCOs and officers who couldn’t think up another term to call their Marines on the carpet. It really is a shame, because it is one of my favorite nicknames, considering the consummate bad asses who bestowed it on us. If it were to be given a break for a few years, I have no doubt it could be restored to it’s former prominent place, but until then, it will remain an insult.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:00 pmThis is kind of like when you were a kid and you and your friends called each other “Dude, hey dude, DUDE!.” Flash to when you’re 30 years old and when some kid calls you dude you want to smack him upside the head. Obviously, I have no idea what I’m talking about because “Devil Dogs” has a much more grandiose history than “dude,” but it’s all generational semantics. Vernacular is always evolving I guess. If it were me, my chest would swell with pride anytime somebody called me something specific to my branch of service, derogatory or not because it’s an honor to serve and I’d have earned every damn nickname I’ve got. But like I said, since they won’t let me serve this is just one guy’s opinion who really has no idea…lol.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:26 pmThanks for the info
April 30th, 2008 at 12:27 pmI am joining the Corp this summer, and to hell if someone gets offended for being called a title that I want so badly to earn. I’m not sure this is as big as the article makes it out to be.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:29 pmChrist!! leave it to the punks that were green when I was getting out. Next thing you know, Semper Fi being used as a salutation will be in the same fix. I knew that the dumb shits that I left the Corp to would screw the pooch, this proves it!
Might have to change my name to ProudDevilDog
April 30th, 2008 at 12:44 pmWha? You gotta be kidding…
April 30th, 2008 at 1:19 pmThat made me swell a lil.
April 30th, 2008 at 1:30 pmHere is my marine corps experience regarding Devil Dog: I served from 2001 - 2007. I was at Marine Combat Training when the towers fell. A few weeks later at my job school, the first TV I watched and first real footage of 9/11 I saw was interspliced in the infamous Concert for America. That night, feeling swelled with pride about my military service and hoping to get in the fight, I saw the shadow of three Marines walking around my squad bay as I myself wandered around. I yelled “Hey Devil Dogs!”. Which was meant like hey my brother as serious as I could say it. It turned out the three marines were corporals and I got an ass chewing and shoved around for like fifteen minutes for calling them such an offensive term. I never used Devil Dog again.
April 30th, 2008 at 1:46 pmwha, sounds like someone had to spend the week at the f*cking k-ranges and has sand in their f*cking p()ssy, wha STFU
April 30th, 2008 at 2:00 pmbut cerealy, to each their own, didn’t bug me if it came for the right reason, “hey devil you did good after takin that round, never seen someone take a round in the neck and try to get back up”, but true once you feel you left bootdumb and all its glory it could offend if used wrong, but its bad ass history there, i thought the commandants video that was played at all the balls last year was moving as hell cuz it focused on WWI, anyways if it does piss ya off show ‘em what a pissed on devil dog really can do, then take the njp like a man, anyone else ever go down 2 ranks in one set of office hours, haha, nothing like being a pfc rockin one stellar stack, cheers
April 30th, 2008 at 2:13 pmAs one of my Drill Instructors told me:
“You may go through your Marine Corps career and hear people using Devil Dog for both good and bad. It can be, just always recognize who said it and how its said. Never EVER say it to someone who is above you, but god damn it your brother before you EARNED that title, so its nothing to be ashamed of. Call your fellow brothers Devil Dogs with pride. It’s a part of you now.”
My graduating class at SOI were always calling eachother Devil Dogs. NCO’s used it with us for good and bad. My unit uses it now for praise and reprimand as well. Fuck, its a bad ass nickname given for a god damn good reason.
April 30th, 2008 at 2:44 pmI just talked to my husband regarding this topic. He said he read it in the Marine Corps Times and was like WTF?
April 30th, 2008 at 2:52 pmThe ONLY Marines it tends to offend are the ones being called Devil Dog when they are being disciplined. They (young Marines)should be taught that its an HONOR to have the title. They also need a history lesson on how the title “Teufelshunde” came to be. It was EARNED.
“To call a U.S. Marine a ‘Devil Dog’ is considered derogatory.”
No way! Only by a Squid on a Navy BOAT or by some skuzzy civilian with long greasy hair and wearing a paisly shirt, bell bottom panties and smelling like patchuli oil!
Sez who? A bunch of carpet munching Squid Wanna be’s?
If some FNG or REMF doesn’t know his history and the honored traditions of the Corps, he shouldn’t have been allowed to graduate from Boot Camp. Any active Marine who finds or takes offense at the term “Devil Dog” should be put back in a remedial training class so as to get his ass in gear and fall in lock step with the Marines who went before him and who passed the right to earn the title of United Sates Marine to him. It seems that as far as I know, nobody asked my permission to change the Etymology of Teufel Hunden, or in N-gish “Devis Dog” Why the official mascot of the Corps is a Bull Dog named Chesty. Anyway that title was forged in Blood, mounted with guts and no Marine or man has the right nor the ability to alter it… period! What is offensive to a Marine is to be referred to as a “soldier” or a “trooper” and that awful sound the Army dudes make when acknowledging an order, sounds like Whoa-whah??? I guess they are trying to say Oooorah! Which by the way is not hyphenated and also, in my Corps was reserved for Recon only.
Jar Head,
Leatherneck,
Mud Marine,
Grunt,
Air Dale
Gyrene
These terms are not, and I reiterate, NOT pejorative terms when used by a veteran or an active duty Marines. of for the most part by a civilian or possibly by some other branch of the armed forces in certain circumstances. Well, I might do a double take if some skuzzy civilian started bleating out those terms under certain circumstances like during a pansy ass’d ‘luv in’ or drug induced riot, but never from a Veteran or a veteran retired Marine. For one thing, the dip shit soi disant Marine who challenged former Staff Sgt. Glenn Kirst in the parking lot was apparently shorted some of his initial issue of 782 Gear because it is sene qua non that he should have been able to tell, just by looking at a former brother Marine and recognize that he was in the presence of a friend and a brother. Some of our young whistle dick FNG’s had best listen to Jim Croce singin and learn what to do and especially what not to do to a Marine be he a veteran past, present or in the future.
Semper Fidelis
Veteran d’nam Marine and Staff Sergeant Chuck Nowotny
April 30th, 2008 at 3:18 pmFor any superior to use any other term then Marine or the Marine’s rank while chastizing him is abusing one’s position. Equitte requires the title Marine or rank. PERIOD.
April 30th, 2008 at 3:40 pmOnce upon a war or two ago, while in country, some whistledick Mud Marines aks oh three hunnert grunts took it upon themselves to call me a name one of which I posted earlier. I didn’t mind being called an Airedale by some REMF ass-wipes who were getting out of Chu Lai because of a spider bite or a moldy boo boo from sitting on their ass’s in a dank damp bunker. After we lifted off I took my usual place standing behind my .50 cal at the Crew Chiefs window at the gun tub. We had occasion to fly fast and low over the paddies toward Danang. Much to our chagrin, we began taking ground fire and a bullet came up through the deck with a loud crack that could be heard over the grinding of the transmission gears, the thumping of the rotors, and whining of the twin T-58’s. Our brave heroic Grunts did what some Marines do naturally, they dove for the deck and then turned their big old bright fear filled wide eyes on me. I stood at my gun holding on as we rocked back and fourth, up and down taking evasive action, not being able to shoot any water boo because I was using my weapon to balance my self as we rocked from side to side, up and down. The .50 in a CH-46 has a block to prevent excess elevation so as not to shoot your rotors off and when the plane would bank to Port, that is left to civilians, I had to elevate my .50 as far as I could to keep it pointing somewhere near the horizon. When we banked to Starboard, I had to depress my gun as far as it would travel to maintain ground targets.. I had no clear target anyway, just some Mama sans, some V.C. Water Buffalo and a bunch of kids wallowing in the pig shit planting rice. Some V.C. got in a lucky shot but no one was hit and it came in through the rails. To make a long story short, I looked at the terrified, bug eyed, frightened faces of the boisterous sprawled out Marines looking to me for guideance, the same Marines who had just about five minutes earlier called me what they thought was some superlative pejorative term so, when I looked at them, smiled, grinning widely and I thought , almost said aloud:
“Darned Fools, holy shit, Man, that is the last place in the world I want to be in a CH-46 taking fire through the deck to overhead, lying proned out on the deck in the BACK of a helicopter… Holy Moley, man… don’t you know that Charlie doesn’t lead!” Jar Heads!
All in all, no one died that day..
One other time, some 3rd MAR DIV grunts passed as I was about finishing up loading and getting situated my Shining Brass Recon Cargo. The hapless numbnutz 03’s probably on mess duty yelled out something about’ my sorry ass being a pussy and swingin with the wing.’ What they didn’t know or apparently see was the rest of the team who had not boarded my bird. The gaggle of cluster pfhuques inadvertently ran full face into the remainder of the team that tore into them in no uncertain words or ways so as insure that they’d never make an unsolicited statement like that ever again especially not on their watch and specifically not about any Aircrew man in a helicopter that would and did often save their bacon and green team skins. Apparently there were no piss tubes available because they left the area marinating in their own urine!
I wasn’t offended and it was not often that any brother Marine would do or say anything uncalled for up front. However, in REMF country, in the rear with the gear is where I sometimes saw the breakdown of the “Code” amongst Marines but that was always a private matter settled over a warm Ballentines for the most part.
April 30th, 2008 at 4:07 pmscrew that. the DD will never go away. i say “Hey Marine!” and Marine could be replaced with Devil Dog and mean the same thing. whats that mean? soon Marine will be considered un-PC? negative. A rose by any other name right? its all in the context and my fellow Devil Dogs that are offended need to stop being pussies and get a straw to suck it the f*ck up. And by the way, in bootcamp they teach you history of the Marine Corps.
April 30th, 2008 at 4:32 pmI was in from 1986 to 1990. I really don’t remember it being used much, maybe while I was in school at 29 Palms.
When I was in, it was just “Hey, Marine.” Which brings up another story.
My MOS school was at Fort Gordon, Georgia, or, as my Army cousin calls it, Fort Garbage. There were soldiers and Marines (notice that, you don’t capitalize soldier, sailor or airman) in my class. They always asked us why we didn’t have nametags on our utilities/cammies (WTF are BDUs?). We’d respond by pointing at our rank and saying PFC or LCpl work just fine. Of course, now Marines are tagged.
Whatever the case, Devil Dog should never be used in anything other than a positive way.
April 30th, 2008 at 4:49 pmOh darn, It was An Hoa not Chu Lai. Dotage is setting in on this old Devil Dawg! Now there is an offensive term for ya.
Dotage
a noun
Definition:
An offensive term for the lack of strength or concentration sometimes believed to be characteristic of old age.
Who me??? What me worry?~~ Al E. Newman
April 30th, 2008 at 5:30 pmDotage
a noun
Definition:
An offensive term for the lack of strength or concentration sometimes believed to be characteristic of old age.
Who me??? What me worry?~~ Al E. Newman
———————————————————–
How I DO loves ya! xoxo
Please be honored to meet my fellow Bandie/Bandhead …
Veteran d’nam Marine and Staff Sergeant Chuck Nowotny
And as to my post of yesterday, THIS was his favorite gal “in-country” in `nam:
https://pat-dollard.com/2008/04/the-phrog-princess/
Thanks for your insight … and service, Chuck!
Maggie
April 30th, 2008 at 5:59 pmBradW (the Infidel)
Christ!! leave it to the punks that
were green when I was getting out. Next
thing you know, Semper Fi being used as a
salutation will be in the same fix. I knew
that the dumb shits that I left the Corp
to would screw the pooch, this proves it!
Might have to change my name to ProudDevilDog
Semper Fidelis Brad, No worries, there are a ton of great young qualified and heroic bastards out there that earned the title and do you and the Corps proud. Most of this happy horse shit probably comes from some lard ass’d Pogues and Pencil necked, sealed beam REMF Geeks in charge of supply or S-2. I can’t for the life of me see how being called something can get a real Marines nutz in an uproar! Maybe they pull all the punches in Boot Camp these days and issue Midol to those who have bad hair days while in training. In the halcyon days of yore, they just wrapped Mrs. Jones offspring up in a blanket, and sent him packing to a recalcitrant readjustment platoon where someone, not his mommy kicked the impacted turd that was lodged in his brain housing group free and clear.
I have heard there is some silly ass hand holding going on these days due to the dreaded P.C. However I was under the assumption that it only applied to Navy and Air Force recruits.
I still will approach any uniformed United States Military gal or feller and humbly say that I appreciate every thing they have done or about to do for this Nation. Especially a fellow Marine. All in all it sounds to me like a few insignificant and hopelessly microcephalic wingnuts failed to be weeded out in Boot camp are guilty of causing the air pressure outside their heads to be greater than inside their craniums there by causing debilitating brain pfharts.
April 30th, 2008 at 6:14 pmA veteran Marine 2149649
Your CH-46 story sounds eerily similar to something that happened to us. We had just wrapped up an operation somewhere south of Chu Lai in January, ‘67 and were being flown out when a single round ripped through the fuselage somewhere near the rear of the chopper. It was loud and it sounded just as you described. We thought everything was OK as we continued out of the narrow valley and out over the South China Sea. It must not have been, though, because the pilot suddenly turned back to the coast and brought it down on top a high bluff just inland from the coastline. The rest of the company joined us and we set up a hasty perimeter around the downed helicopter. Whatever the problem was - a severed hydraulic line, I suspect - the chopper was repaired and flown out before nightfall. We, however, got to spend the evening there.
By the way, if that number that forms part of your nom de guerre is your service number, I got you, ya boot.
Semper Fi, fellow Devil Dog.
Pogue Mahogue
April 30th, 2008 at 6:39 pm2139013 USMC
And as to my post of yesterday, THIS was his favorite gal “in-country” in `nam:
Oops! Not this Phrog. She earned a MOH among others. She was a wreck in Iraq but now, thanks to some great work by guys like Dennis Craycraft she has earned a static place at the main gate at MCAS New River. My buno on YT-6 an A model 151920. Totally and completely diffrn’t and I was in HMM 164 which is now a training Sqdrn at Pendleton. I did get some skins time in October of ‘67 with HMM 163 when all of our birds went down and ove to Oki for a Mod., but they were piston pounding CH 34’s.
Us old time Devil Dogs who flen in Phrogs when they were A models have lots of photos and stories from d’nam to Iraq. Please feel free to visit. www.popasmoke.com
Semper Fidelis
SAEPE EXPERTUS, SEMPER FIDELIS, FRATRES AETERNI
“Often Tested, Always Faithful, Brothers Forever”
That is what it is all about Brothers.
April 30th, 2008 at 7:25 pmIf your DI says that Marines are Devil Dogs, then by god damned they are fucking Devil Dogs.
April 30th, 2008 at 7:58 pmim still saying WTF. i was in 84-88. Devil Dog was used in many ways, but i was never offended by it, because on the last day of boot camp, the DI’s told us we were now Devil Dogs. That was a moment of pride and what most of aspired to be. and the DI’s said it to us, so it had to be true! that just wants to make me say DD to every jarhead i see now. grrrrr
April 30th, 2008 at 8:17 pmI’ve never used the name myself. I dunno why.
But after reading Dbo’s incident….yeagh, we never called any Marine above the rank of Lance Corporal “Devil Dog”. It was always Corporal or Sergeant or whatever. Anything less-than-formal was considered insubordinate.
I suppose I don’t care for the name Devil Dog but the idea of Marines fighting like “demonic possessed animals” does fit nicely. It gets my juices flowing and makes me wanna rip the heart out of the enemies chest.
May 1st, 2008 at 6:24 am