Oh The Humanity! Faux Muslim Outrage Over US Marine Handing Out Christian Coin
Give me a fucking break.
BAGHDAD - A U.S. Marine handed out coins promoting Christianity to Muslims in the former insurgent stronghold of Fallujah, outraged Sunni officials said Friday. The U.S. military responded quickly, removing a trooper from duty pending an investigation.
SNIP through the AP bullshit to:
Photographs of the coins, which were inscribed with phrases in Arabic, were widely distributed via cell phones in Fallujah and were seen by an Associated Press employee.
One side asked: “Where will you spend eternity?”
The other contained a verse from the New Testament: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16.”
Such actions by American service members threaten to alienate Sunni Arabs who have become key allies in the fight against insurgents, a movement that started in Anbar province, which includes Fallujah.
Distribution of the coins in Fallujah was particularly sensitive because the city, 40 miles west of Baghdad, is known for its large number of mosques. It was the center of the Sunni-led insurgency before a massive U.S. offensive in November 2004.
Sheik Abdul-Rahman al-Zubaie, an influential tribal leader in the city, spoke of his outrage over perceived proselytizing by American forces and warned patience was running thin.
“This event did not happen by chance, but it was planned and done intentionally,” al-Zubaie said. “The Sunni population cannot accept and endure such a thing. I might not be able to control people’s reactions if such incidents keep happening.”
Sunni officials and residents said a Marine distributed about 10 coins at a checkpoint controlling access to the city, the scene of one of the fiercest battles of the war.
Al-Zubaie said a man brought one of the coins to a mosque on Wednesday to show it to him and other Sunni leaders.
He accused the Marines of trying to do missionary work in Fallujah and said Sunni leaders had met with U.S. military officials and demanded “the harshest punishment” for those responsible to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
Mohammed Hassan Abdullah said he witnessed the coins being handed out on Tuesday as he was waiting at the Halabsa checkpoint, although he didn’t receive one himself.
The U.S. military — still smarting from the Quran shooting — said a Marine was removed from duty Friday “amid concerns from Fallujah’s citizens regarding reports of inappropriate conduct.”
A statement said the reports about the coin’s distribution were being investigated and promised “appropriate action” if the allegations are confirmed.
Lt. Col. Chris Hughes, a spokesman for U.S. forces in western Iraq, said it didn’t appear to be a widespread problem, stressing that the military forbids “proselytizing any religion, faith or practices.”
“Indications are this was an isolated incident — an individual Marine acting on his own accord passing out coins,” Hughes said in an e-mailed statement. The issue was first reported by McClatchy Newspapers.
Col. James L. Welsh, chief of staff for American forces in western Iraq, also said the matter has their “full attention.”
Al-Zubaie said U.S. military officials met with tribal leaders on Thursday and expressed “astonishment about (the) behavior of this Marine, saying that they have already settled the matter of the violation of the Quran and suddenly a new problem has emerged.”
Dr. Muhsin al-Jumaili, a professor of law and religious studies in Fallujah, said the act was especially provocative in Fallujah and risked alienating residents who recently have joined forces with the Americans against al-Qaida in Iraq.
“As Muslims, we cannot accept this,” he told The Associated Press. “The Americans should concentrate on maintaining security and not doing missionary work.”
“Such deeds will not make Muslims trust American troops any more and might create a feeling of hatred among Muslims and Christians” at a time when they’re finally living in peace, he added.
(AP)
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This undermines the mission by pissing off the locals. That’s bad - it un-does a lot of hard work. I think it’s pretty clear that perception can play a bigger role than reality in that part of the world, and soldiers need to keep that in mind. Sorry, but this was just dumb, just as shooting up a koran was an especially bad idea.
I’ve got no respect for islam and even less for the koran, but come on, gents. Don’t go screwing up our hard-won gains over there over pointless crap like this. We already know that the media is going to focus on petty, stupid stuff like this and ignore all the good that we do. Don’t give them the satisfaction.
May 30th, 2008 at 8:56 amThere is a larger and larger part of me that is really beginning to question why any American, especially Christian Americans, are being asked to put their life on the line to vastly improve these people’s lives.
My patience with many Muslims is about to reach its zenith and my thinking maybe it might be better if we just start a 21st Century crusade and be rid of the problem instead.
May 30th, 2008 at 8:57 amOh, the outrage. Poor Muzzies having to tolerate any sort of religious freedom…especially those darned Christians.
The Mooseheads certainly don’t want their people suddendly locing their neighbors as themselves. That just wouldn’t be right. Then who would they have left to saly the infidels or contend with them wherever they find them?
After 270 million deaths in 1400 years, can’t be starting any new trends in Islam. No “change” here.
May 30th, 2008 at 8:58 amcool coin - I want one
May 30th, 2008 at 9:04 amYah same here first thing that went through my mind
May 30th, 2008 at 9:07 amSome much for TOLERANCE!
May 30th, 2008 at 9:09 am@QMech:
Can’t have them Christians fighting and dying for Muslims and then busting them for handing out a coin with a Christian saying on it now can we?
Don’t want any Muslims changing their minds about slaying infidels wherever they find them huh?
I don’t care what the LLMSM says. If this Marine is good enough to lay his life on the line for these damned Muslims, then he’s good enough to pass on a message of hope to them as well.
Pulling him out of theater or giving him Captain’s mast is plain freaking wrong.
If this is the standard for Christians fighting and dying in Iraq…then pull all the Christians out. Let the 10 or so atheists left do the fighting and dying and f*ck Iraq.
May 30th, 2008 at 9:29 amI agree with Q_Mech. No one wants people to believe in and receive Christ more than I do, but his point is right on target. A lot of hard work is at risk of being blown up in our faces by a well-intentioned, but stupid act.
I hate to say it, but Marines seem to have a habit of these sorts of things, especially lately. If I were this man’s superior officer, I think I would take a stripe and some money to make a point to the rest of the lugheads to think before doing something stupid that may cost a lot of American lives. That area in particular is explosive, and a gospel tract or coin is like throwing a match on an open container of gasoline.
May 30th, 2008 at 9:34 amThe money spent on having the coins made should have been put to better use by being given to Christian charities assisting Iraqi Christian that have had to flee with all of the understanding and compassion that was dished out by their Muslim neighbors.
I believe the intent was to promote understanding, but what can be construed as proselytizing although probably done in their off-duty comes across to those as attempts to convert muslims, which is far from the case.
This only feeds to the propaganda for Al-Qaeda, the Mahdi Armies, and the press.
The guys heart was in the right place but needed some more thought.
May 30th, 2008 at 10:10 amWow, we got one Marine who figured out the Koran is the real problem in Iraq and another with the real solution. Both get the shaft. Yeah, we’re really on the right track here. There is no democracy in Islam…much like democracy is dying in the west…Islam has already accepted intollerance and the slavery of Sharia.
Far be it from the Marines to replace any Koranic specifics on murder and suicide bombings with something different like oh say not murder and not suicide.
I keep hearing all this talk about teaching Iraq about Democracy, anyone who’s studied Islam, knows that that idea will never wash in the face of Sharia.
But I’m sick and tired of Christians giving their all for this country in combat and getting shitted on for it.
Let the atheists, the deists and the agnostics do the fighting from now on. Let’s see how long that lasts?
You aren’t going to change anything in the ME with candy, abd treats or even bullets. The problem in the ME is a mindset that places a tiny premium on life and liberty.
Muslims don’t have a mind-set that embraces hope, or human rights and dignity. That’s a decidedly western concept that came out of Christian thought and philosophy.
You want to change these Mossehead’s future behavior; you must first change their minds and hearts. You can do that with an A-bomb or you can do that with a counter-philosophy.
The mindset in Iraq is Islam. That’s the root of the problem. Counter it, and you will win this war…not only in Iraq but everywhere else.
Islam is loosing tons of followers. These former Muslims are looking towards the west for a better plan.
Islam offers nothing except death. Christianity offers nothing but life. Islam makes no guarantees in the afterlife except when a Muslim kills or is killed in jihad.
The great shaheen says that ain’t necessary and sums it up in John 3:16.
Islam will never be defeated through military might alone. There must be a concerted counter-campaign to shut down the Arayan ideas of Arabic supremacy and military conquest. There must be a concerted campaign to counter the idea that only Islam is acceptable…and that non-Islamics should be enslaved or killed.
Allah is a liar. Muhammed was a liar. That’s the philosophy that is killing Muslims more than any other.
Christianity is the most powerful counter to Muslim idealogy in existence. And the clowns that run the show want to stop that?
Ok, stop it…and in 5 years don’t be surprised that after we leave Iraq, we return at some future date, because we have not addressed the fundamental causes of jihad: Islam itself.
May 30th, 2008 at 10:22 amWell said, well done.
May 30th, 2008 at 10:45 amLet the atheists, the deists and the agnostics do the fighting from now on. Let’s see how long that lasts?
It , at least for me, an atheist, will last until the last islamist is 50 years or more dead.
I’ve no illusion we’re fighting a holy war, just dont think I have your same rational.
BZ to that marine.
meleager
May 30th, 2008 at 12:02 pm“That area in particular is explosive, and a gospel tract or coin is like throwing a match on an open container of gasoline”
Then throw it. Ours is not the time to renige upon our strengths.
meleager
May 30th, 2008 at 12:20 pmPatience, y’all. One thing at a time. First, stabilize the place with a solid democracy in place. The rest will come with time.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:25 pmQ_Mech
Patience, y’all. One thing at a time. First, stabilize the place with a solid democracy in place. The rest will come with time.
I too, wish it so. The sign post point otherwise. Victory must come first.
meleager
May 30th, 2008 at 12:55 pmThere is some wisdom in what Q_Mech is saying, at least I think so. While to us “rational” types…(we ARE rational, aren’t we?) handing out that coin is no big deal. They, the radical mooselimbs, are not rational in thought, and we DO know that, hence they freak.
Hey, if God gives a Christian soldier an opportunity to explain Christianity to individual locals safely somehow, fine. But this may be a bit premature. I don’t fault the soldier who did it because it seems his heart is in the right place. Those folks need a good healthy dose of Christianity. It would wipe away a lot of crap they believe. But, to make an UPROAR over it? Well, that’s the radical muslim way.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:09 pmI’m sorry to disagree with any of you, but this is just nuts. We’ve been fighting a long war against AQ, insurgents, and others who call us Crusaders, which is a very dirty word there. We’re now beginning to really make some serious headway and gain the people’s trust and these idiots start handing out what will CERTAINLY be called evidence that the AQ, Iranian, and secretly Saudi propaganda was correct all along!
I’m a practicing Christian, and John 3:16 means a lot to me, but ours is not a faith of magic trinkets! which is how this can easily be perceived by people who at BEST have no concept of Christianity, and — as is more likely — at worst have the terribly distorted Crusader concept. Yes, I know there are Iraqi Christians, but they’re not us.
Now we have our armed soldiers passing out Crusader coins?!! What IDIOT thought this was a good idea? What IDIOT let this happen on his watch?
There is a time, place, and method for evangelizing, id this isn’t any of them.
Great job; really; just great.
May 30th, 2008 at 1:15 pmBill and JJIrons
With respect, we are not fightinng against “insurgents”, we are fighting against organized religious jehadis intent on spreading their religion on us “infidels”, by sword or underhand technique. To the extent their methods are more effective than ours, we should use the western concepts of individual freedom to counter their message at each and every step, and method we have at our disposal (greek fire and all).
Evangaligizing has EVERYTHING to do with it. There must be a replacement to the islamist ideology.
meleager
May 30th, 2008 at 1:32 pmBill Smith:
That Marine’s job…if he is a Christian is to spread the Gospel to all the world. His duty is to his maker first and then the Marines.
Are we spreading Democracy in the Islamic world or just more moral equivalence rhetoric about it. Words or deeds?
I’ll take the deeds. This young Marine is right on the money. And you ain’t going to beat this idiotic Crusader mentality jive through rhetoric and moral equivalence.
Islam is poison. Christianity is not. Islam is the problem, the Crusades is a dodge around the problem.
Any excuse to kill infidels is OK. The Crusades ( an excuse unknown in Islam prior to Saab Quutab) Fitna, cartoons et al.
Yeah let’s shut the Christians up. They’re the problem here.
Bullcrap. Islam is the problem; along with pandering Dhimis who understand nothing about Islam or its 1400 year history…especially that history that produced the 7 Crusades in the first place from the 7th - 9th Centuries.
Leave the kid alone. At least he ain’t standing in a pulpit shouting Allah-u Akbar, waving a sword, and calling for the deaths of Jews and Christians…or refering to them as the ubermenchen on a daily basis.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:08 pmHere’s what all the Muslim outrage is about. One coin represents one ripple in a pond…that starts another and then another.. To wit:
“In Sudan, more than one million have converted since 2000, and some 5 million have become Christians since the early 1990s, despite a radical Islamic regime and an on-going genocide that has killed more than 200,000. Seminaries are being held in caves to train pastors to shepherd the huge numbers of people coming to Christ. Why such a dramatic spiritual awakening? “People have seen real Islam, and they want Jesus instead,” one Sudanese evangelical leader said.
In December 2001, Sheikh Ahmad al Qataani, a leading Saudi cleric, appeared on a live interview on Al-Jazeera satellite television to confirm that, sure enough, Muslims were turning to Jesus in alarming numbers. “In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity,” Al Qataani warned. “Every day, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Every year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity.”
Stunned, the interviewer interrupted the cleric. “Hold on! Let me clarify. Do we have six million converting from Islam to Christianity?” Al Qataani repeated his assertion. “Every year,” the cleric confirmed, adding, “a tragedy has happened.”
One of the most dramatic developments is that many Muslims — including Shiites in Iran and Iraq — are seeing dreams and visions of Jesus and thus coming into churches explaining that they have already converted and now need a Bible and guidance on how to follow Jesus. This is the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy of Joel, “in the last days, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days….And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved.” (Joel 2:28-32).”
One coin could be the difference between 667 Muslim jihadis or 667 new Christians.
Kudos to this young Marine. “We would rather obey the laws of God, (not the anti-god Allah either); than of men”.
May 30th, 2008 at 3:02 pmshooting a book and passing out coins, what atrocities will our troops committ next?
May 30th, 2008 at 3:31 pmHaven’t you heard: “Timing is everything!” and “Unto everything there is a season!”
God talks alot about discernment, understanding, and wisdom and the need to ask continually for all of them. Most of Proverbs is about getting wisdom. What this Marine did was not wise. God did not allow David to build the temple because he was a man of war. Did God love him less for that or think less of David’s mission? No! God used David to secure the land. God has a time and a place and a man to do the job for everything. He gave to Solomen to build the temple.
May 30th, 2008 at 4:28 pmMan am I torn on this one. Dan, that was just beautiful. What is above God?
However, the opposing view makes some excellent points as well….American lives are at stake.
I think this is how the man I respect more than any other man, my deceased Sargent Major father, would respond to the God-loving marine — After ripping this marine a new one to set an example to others he would then take him off to the side and tell him something along these lines: ‘Unrecorded words don’t leave tracks like objects. If the Spirit tells you to spread the Word make sure you only use spoken words. Christian-said-Muslim-said ain’t the same thing as a Muslim whipping out a sacramental and saying you gave it to him. I know this is about the Spirit and your soul but you’ve also got to use the head God gave you as well. The early Christians in Rome didn’t celebrate Mass in the catacombs for the ambiance. Do your duty to God and Country. But do it in a way the demedia and the Islamofascists can’t track it back to cause harm to you or others. Even Christ had his Judas. Now get out of here and let’s not have this conversation again.’
May 30th, 2008 at 5:09 pm@Kim
Try again. The kid is living up to this standard:
“I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound [1] teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 5 As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.”
2 Tim 4:1-5
This wasn’t just for Timothy. This is for all who believe. It’s a command for all believers for all time.
May 30th, 2008 at 5:32 pmPhil N Blanx:
Nothing comes before God in a born-againer’s mind. Not the State, and not the Marines. If he were my Marine, I’d commend him. If I were forced to do non-judicial punishment on him, I’d refuse even if it meant loss of commission or a court-martial.
I doubt that anyone in the Marine’s unit would stick their neck out that far for him. But I would.
There is a bigger principal at work here…that has nothing to do with regs or the host country.
Showing weakness plays into the hands of the jihadis and shows America to be full of Dhimis.
Those who wish to play the compliant Dhimi, whether inside the military or outside of it are just useful idiots in the throws of Dhimnitude.
By all means bow to your masters. Enjoy your chains.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:16 pmAll the good comments were taken
suffice it for me to say that he meant well, and I do not think he should be punished, in a muslim country you have got to put on your best face, and do it one person at a time. Hand them to those who seem to want them.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:27 pmFolks I am well aware of how fast Christianity is spreading in Africa, and elsewhere. That’s great, but it isn’t done by people carrying guns. A previous poster is right. To everything there is a season.
People have to want what you have. They have to ASK you why you seem different. They have to ask you why you are helping them. You have to meet them WHERE THEY ARE, and I’m not talking about physical location.
I stand by what I said.
May 30th, 2008 at 7:00 pmSimply said instead of handing out trinkets:
Romans 12:20
“Do the opposite. If your enemy is hungry, give him something to eat. If he is thirsty, give him something to drink. For if you act in this way, you will heap burning coals upon his head”
May 30th, 2008 at 8:53 pmHold on there Dan! That marine doesn’t represent only himself, but the entire United States of America, and specifically the US Marine Corps, most of whom want nothing to do with the Lord Jesus Christ (contrary to what many profess). His well-intentioned effort to give out the Gospel put the lives of many of his fellow Marines in danger as well as his own, and they didn’t sign up for missionary work, and do not want to die for Jesus’ sake! Is it fair and right to impress the entire US Marine Corps and Army into service for Christ and put their lives on the line when this is not their mission in life? I would say not, and I know for a fact that they agree with this statement.
Now if this Marine were a civilian and had the courage to go to Fallujah, Iraq and pass out Gospel tracts and preach the Gospel, I would say go for it! Then, he would be on his own time and would be representing himself in his views and not endangering the lives of tens of thousands of his fellow troops in the process.
The US Military is not a modern version of the Middle-Ages Catholic Crusaders representing the Pope who go about carrying a sword to kill the enemies of Jesus Christ! The US Military is an arm of the President of the United States of America, whose job it is to defend ALL Americans, even the Muslim Americans whom I disagree with and want them to be saved.
I do not want my government to be an arm of “the church”; neither my church nor any other. I like it just the way it is, thank you very much.
And BTW Dan, if you are going to claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ, let me ask you in the Name of the Sinless Son of God, who commanded us to “Swear not at all”, PLEASE do one of two things from now on:
1) Either say, “I am a sinner and not a Christian who wants to swear and will not stop” or
2) Refrain from using profanity in your posts, because all that you do is induce laughter and mockery from the enemies of Christ against all Christians who are striving to live lives that honor the SINLESS Son of God.
At least with option one, everyone will know where you truly stand, and Jesus will not be mocked.
Think about it: Jesus never sinned. A follower of Jesus should therefore also strive not to sin. Although we are certainly weak and no one is perfect; nonetheless, a filthy mouth (especially in public) does nothing except bring reproach upon the Holy Name of Jesus Christ, when it comes from one who PROFESSES to be one of His followers.
Jesus said that a filthy mouth is simply the outlet for a filthy heart; and the Bible says that without holiness, NO MAN shall see the Lord.
Do not deceive yourself into believing that God is like Santa Claus and doesn’t care about your sinning, or that your church and priest will be your lifeboat on the Day of Judgment. No, my friends, only the Blood of Jesus Christ accepted by faith is sufficient to save you and make you like Jesus today and save you from Hell tomorrow.
Jesus said, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man comes unto the Father, but by Me” (John 14:6). He didn’t say, “The Church is the Way” or “Mary is the Way” or “Your good works are the Way”.
A true Born-again Christian is certainly able to sin, but the Blood of Jesus Christ creates real change in his soul, so that he begins to strive after righteousness and holiness in both word and deed. Not that he ever “arrives” at perfection, but there is a process called Sanctification ongoing in his soul that will not allow him to continue sinning on daily basis.
“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that works righteousness is righteous, even as Jesus is righteous. He that [continually] sins is of the devil: for the devil sins from the beginning. The Son of God was manifested for this purpose: that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God does not [continually] commit sin: for his Seed remains in him; and he cannot [continually] sin, because he is born of God. In this difference the children of God and the children of the devil are manifested: whosoever does not practice righteousness is not of God; neither he that does not love his Christian brother.” (I John 3:7-10).
Please think about this and consider whether you are a true follower of Jesus Christ or only a professor who needs to be born-again.
http://www.thekingdombible.org/Miscellaneous/salvation.htm
May 31st, 2008 at 9:17 am