Iraq Vet Faces Historic Civilian Judgement On War Crimes Charges - With 2 Videos

August 19th, 2008 Posted By Pat Dollard.

humanbeings.jpg

WSJ Video

A former Marine sergeant this week becomes the first person accused of a military crime outside the U.S. to be tried in a civilian court. Jose Luis Nazario, Jr. is charged with killing unarmed detainees in Iraq. He denies it. (August 17)

IRVINE, Calif. (AP) - A former Marine sergeant facing the first federal civilian prosecution of a military member accused of a war crime says there is much more at stake than his claim of innocence on charges that he killed unarmed detainees in Fallujah, Iraq.In the view of Jose Luis Nazario Jr., U.S. troops may begin to question whether they will be prosecuted by civilians for doing what their military superiors taught them to do in battle.Nazario is the first military service member who has completed his duty to be brought to trial under a law that allows the government to prosecute defense contractors, military dependents and those no longer in the military who commit crimes outside the United States. “They train us, and they expect us to rely back on that training. Then when we use that training, they prosecute us for it?” Nazario said during an interview Saturday with The Associated Press.“I didn’t do anything wrong. I don’t think I should be the first tried like this,” said Nazario, whose trial begins Tuesday in Riverside, east of Los Angeles. If Nazario, 28, is convicted of voluntary manslaughter, some predict damaging consequences on the battlefield.“This boils down to one thing in my mind: Are we going to allow civilian juries to Monday-morning-quarterback military decisions?” said Nazario’s attorney, Kevin McDermott.us-marines-of-the-1st-battalion-8th-marines-battle-insurgents-in-the-streets-of-fallujah-iraq-wed.jpgOthers say the law closes a loophole that allowed former military service members to slip beyond the reach of prosecution. Once they complete their terms, troops cannot be prosecuted in military court.Scott Silliman, a law professor and executive director of the Center on Law, Ethics and National Security at Duke University, says it has little to do with questioning military decisions and everything to do with whether a service member committed a crime.“From a legal point of view, there is no difference in law between war and peace,” he said.The Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act law was written in 2000 and amended in 2004 primarily to prosecute civilian contractors who commit crimes while working for the U.S. overseas. One of the authors contends prosecuting former military personnel was “not the motivation.”“I don’t fault the Department of Justice for using what legal authority they have if a clear criminal act has been committed. But I do think that it would be preferable for crimes committed on active duty be prosecuted by court martial rather than in civilian courts,” said Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala.“I think maybe what it says is we need to rethink the question of military personnel who are subject to prosecution.”Telephone messages for a spokesman in the U.S. attorney’s office in Los Angeles seeking comment were not returned.Nazario, of Riverside, is charged with one count of voluntary manslaughter on suspicion of killing or causing others to kill four unarmed detainees in November 2004 in Fallujah, during some of the fiercest fighting of the war. He also faces one count of assault with a deadly weapon and one count of discharging a firearm during a crime of violence.The case came to light in 2006, when Nazario’s former squadmate, Sgt. Ryan Weemer, volunteered details to a U.S. Secret Service job interviewer during a lie-detector screening that included a question about the most serious crime he ever committed. Weemer was ordered this month to stand trial in military court on charges of unpremeditated murder and dereliction of duty in the killing of an unarmed detainee in Fallujah. He has pleaded not guilty.According to a Naval Criminal Investigative Service criminal complaint, several Marines allege Nazario shot two Iraqi men who had been detained while his squad searched a house. The complaint claims four Iraqi men were killed during the action.

The complaint states the squad had been taking fire from the house. After the troops entered the building and captured the insurgents, Nazario placed a call on his radio.

“Nazario said that he was asked, ‘Are they dead yet?’” the complaint states. When Nazario responded that that the captives were still alive, he was allegedly told by the Marine on the radio to “make it happen.”

Though Nazario and his attorneys declined to discuss the facts of the case with the AP, the former Marine has always maintained his innocence.

Fallujah was the scene of two Marine battles in 2004, the first of which was launched after insurgents killed four U.S. contractors in the city. That battle was aborted in April 2004 and the Marines launched Operation Phantom Fury in November of that year.Nazario said he was on his first deployment when his squad entered Fallujah, which he described as a “high combat zone” with insurgents taking shots at troops at every turn—with everything from AK-47s to rocket-propelled grenades.Thirty-three in his battalion were killed in the battle. The first, he said, was a man in his squad. Nazario later received the Navy-Marine Corps Commendation Medal with a “V” for valor for combat and leadership in Fallujah.Though Nazario was not physically injured, he was later found to have post-traumatic stress disorder.After leaving the military, Nazario worked as an officer with the Riverside Police Department and was close to completing his one-year probation. He said he knew nothing of the investigation until he was arrested Aug. 7, 2007, after being called into the watch commander’s office to sign a performance review.He said he was leaning forward to sign when he was grabbed from behind by his fellow officers, told he had been charged with a war crime and was turned over to Navy investigators waiting in a nearby room. Because he had not completed probation, the police department fired him.

Since then, he said, has been unable to find work.

“You’re supposed to be innocent until proven guilty,” he said. “I’ve put in applications everywhere for everything. But nobody wants to hire you if you have been indicted.”

Without any income, Nazario said, he has been forced to move in with his parents in New York. He and his wife resorted to selling some of their household goods, such as electronics equipment, to a pawn shop.

His wife, once a stay-at-home mother to their 2-year-old son, has gone to work as a customer service receptionist, he said. She will be unable to attend his trial.

“She has to work. We need the money,” he said, his eyes reddening as he blinked away tears.

Nazario said he has no regrets about being a Marine, only regrets about what has happened since.

“My faith in the system is shaken. There’s no doubt about that,” he said.

One of Nazario’s defense attorneys, Doug Applegate, said he believes that ultimately the former Marine will be acquitted because of lack of evidence.

“There are no bodies, no forensic evidence, no crime scene and no identities,” he said.

It is unclear what, if anything, Marines being subpoenaed to testify will say about the events in the house in Fallujah.

Another Marine, Sgt. Jermaine Nelson, 26, of New York is slated to be court-martialed in December on charges of unpremeditated murder and dereliction of duty for his role in the deaths.

Although he has not entered a plea in military court, Nelson’s attorney has said his client is innocent.

Nelson and Weemer were jailed in June for contempt of court for refusing to testify against Nazario before a federal grand jury believed to be investigating the case. Both were released July 3 and returned to Camp Pendleton.


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42 Responses

  1. Steady

    Who is pushing this case????????????

  2. mshatto

    Cases like this, the Pendleton 8, and Border Patrol officers Ramos & Campeon leaves me very suspicious of the Bush administration and I’m certain plays a role in his low approval ratings. Bush sends these young people to do near impossible jobs and then the gov’t prosecutes them on what seems to be trumped up, politically induced charges. It’s highly unbelievable that the decision to prosecute these charges doesn’t get approval from the White House and it scares the hell out of me. If this can happen to people like this, what does it mean for ordinary people?

  3. drillanwr (Today I Am A Georgian)

    The sidebar fallout, and quite possibly the hidden intent, of this is to scare off new recruits … and re-ups.

    If enough of these trumped-up “cases” are dragged through our courts, they are going to be in the backs of the minds of folks thinking about signing on to military service, especially in war situations …

    You KNOW the “plaintiffs” have the backing financially to do this, via Soros and the antiwar/pro-communist groups.

  4. 0311inOHio (typical white person)

    :gun: :twisted: :gun: :evil:

    I read this shit and I want to puke especially after what Russia did and is doing in Georgia. Grrrrrrrr.. Fucking country in going to hell in a hand basket.

  5. Specter

    We’re getting closer and closer to bodies in the street.
    Motherfucking liberals will one day pay the most expensive price for their treasonous agenda. If these motherfuckers want war, they shall fucking have it.

  6. Paslode

    “From a legal point of view, there is no difference in law between war and peace”

    But of course common sense tells you differently.

    In LAW…. Ask a lawyer a question and they will answer well in LAW or the LAW say…..and you always have to have a LAW to figure out what is right or wrong, if there isn’t a LAW there needs to be one invented. THE LAW IS A LIVING BREATHING ENTITY.

    Lawyers don’t know what common sense and morality are, they only understand functioning under law and can’t operate without LAWS. It is amazing they can take a shit since its more of a common sense issue in understanding an urge and there is no governing when to take a shit……YET that is.

  7. ji

    I wish there was an address to send money too.

  8. Hardball1911

    I see a quote in there that says once they have completed their term, military members can not be prosecuted militarily.

    The UCMJ says otherwise. If there is a war crime committed, the offender can be tried militarily, under UCMJ procedures and punishment no matter what the status of separation is.

    I smell something fishy that it is happening in the “great” (communist) state of Kalifornia…

    We need to dig into this and see who is at the base of the prosecution. Then we need to start the revolution and take back our country from the socialists and communists.

    Fuck ‘em.

  9. ticticboom (Will Kill For Oil)

    :arrow: Specter:

    Fucking right. You can always tell when someone talking about life or death decisions has never had their own life on the line. I guarantee you that any rational person who’s had someone try to kill them wouldn’t pull shit like this kangaroo court.

    I have no problem educating them. The survivors, if any, will come away with a much better understanding of what it’s like at the pointy end.

  10. cclezel

    Hardball1911 —We need to dig into this and see who is at the base of the prosecution. Then we need to start the revolution and take back our country from the socialists and communists.

    Fuck ‘em.—

    Hell yes, because I want to make some phone calls to these motherfkers. I want them to hear how pissed off I am about this fking behavior. They need to start feeling our wrath!
    :gun: :gun: :gun: :gun: :gun: :gun: :gun: :gun: :gun: :gun: :gun: :gun: :gun: :gun:

  11. mindy abraham

    Are they KIDDING me?! :mad: He was just doing his JOB, they can’t prosecute him for that

  12. mike3481

    This will eventually lead to less of the enemy being captured and more of them being buried and possible Intel be damned.

    Like T.E. Lawrence said, “No Prisoners”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGfAi7Jh2C4

  13. dad3-7

    mshatto– these things are brought on by the judicial system.. and bush has no control of that till the verdict is brought down and then he can pardon.. the career prosecutors can’t be be hired of fired for politics.. but the calif. libtards seem to get great satisfaction in bringing down our military..how many russian, al sadr, cuba, or any other troops will face this sort of thing.. the libtard will say ‘WE ARE ABOVE THOSE PEOPLE’ and that we live by ‘STANDARDS OF CONDUCT’… tell that to the kid who just had his friend killed or his face mained.. it all goes back to that fiasco ‘my lai’ prosecution.. people die horrible deaths in war,, …. GET OVER IT…

  14. TJ (Honorary Lesbian)

    Im reluctant to encourage anyone to join our military these days because of ridiculous things such as this. I wish we had as much zeal persuing our numerous enemies who have commited some of the most heinous war crimes known. Drop the charges against nazario now, he has suffered enough and you have no evidence besides. :mad:

  15. PDizzle

    Drillanwr- You are exactly right. Liberals will claim to support the troops by treating them as victims (PTSD, homless and alcoholic vets) but their real agenda is to punish the “trash” that serves in the military. If young men see that their older brothers and friends are being sent to prison, they will steer clear of military service. The sad thing is that this bullshit would not happen without the cocksucking JAG officers as well as cowardly CID/NCIS.

    I was an MP and thought I would like to go CID until I saw what absoulte bitches they are. Military lawyers and CID agents are soldiers in name only. And Dad37- Of course, the President could stop all this, but he won’t because he doesn’t give a fuck about those who defend this nation. If he were to set a precedent of pardoning soldiers/Marines, prosecutors, both military and civilian would get the message and stop wasting resources on a sure loss.

  16. erin

    You guys congress made this law not the president. it was a law put in the democratic congress and only a congress can stop it by making a new law. The president does care about troops so PDizzle get your facts straight. This law was put into effect when bill clinton was the president in the 90’s. You need to contact Duncan Hunter to see if he can help. The congress makes the law that is why the president cann;t stop this stuff and the congress made the law that way so the president cannot do anything about it. I am tired of you guys attacking the president. find facts straight out before you shoot your mouth off. call duncan hunter to change the legislation.

  17. Steve Rogers

    From an article by Dinesh D’Souza on Townhall.com this morning:

    “People in the West has acquired considerable skill in using, interpreting and manipulating law….If one is right from a legal point of view, nothing more is required, nobody might mention that one could still not be entirely right and urge a willingness to show restraint or sacrifice. Everybody operates at the extreme limits of those legal frames….A society without any objective legal scale is a terrible one indeed, but a society with no other scale but the legal one is not quite worthy of man either.”

    An excerpt from Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s 1978 Harvard address.

  18. Sully0811

    Didn’t we used to call the people pushing this the subversive communist trash that they really are and put them in jail for aiding the enemy in a time of war?

    Though I’m pretty sure that this isn’t a military body pushing it they won’t be able to do anything to this Marine besides ruin his name, make his life hell and make it impossible for him to go about his daily life, all of course AFTER the court rules in the Marine’s favor.

  19. Dr. Jerry

    Soon…my brothers…we must rise up and defend those who have trod the same path, walked the same road, and served the same country. The day is quickly approaching when we must take up arms to defend the sovereignty of out nation and the integrity of its military heros.

    We must do so before the solisialistic/communistic/liberalistic government prevails.

  20. This Guy

    I tried to respond, but this makes me so fucking angry that I have no words for this. Only the desire to see to it that the maggots pushing this case are leaking their brains. :gun:

    Can someone try to get in contact with this Marine? He sounds like he needs help. Lots of it.

  21. el Vaquero

    Site to help this Marine:
    http://warchronicle.com/TheyAreNotKillers/Fallujah04/DOM_Appeal_06AUG08_142.htm

  22. Right_Is_Right

    :arrow: el Vaquero
    Good call - donation made.

    I encourage the rest of you that can to do the same…

    As noted many times before; This type of thing will only serve two purposes - hesitation in the field of battle (more dead soldiers) and/or less people willing to sign up or re-enlist. Damn this pisses me off!

  23. Marc

    Just one more leftist tactic, if you can’t get the public to demand en mass that the war be ended, go after the war fighter and attempt to break his spirit.

  24. Spencer

    This is fucking pathetic. Are we really at the point that we would actually bring our own soldiers to court for things they did for our country? ESCPECIALLY a civillian court… WHAT THE FUCK!

    i’d like to point out that we arent charging people who work for private security like this. at least not to this degree. this is bull shit. this almost makes me want to say “Fuck America and its fagged out politics”. HOW THE FUCK CAN WE LET THIS HAPPEN!

    someone made the point: WHO THE FUCK IS PUSHING THIS?

    i’d like to know what type of homo fudge packer would put a man that served with honor up on trial. i guess we cant kill anyone in wars anymore, we gotta have “hard negotions” with them.

    Fuck these shit heads. if this were happening 50 years ago we would throw these shit head commies into a prison camp. our government needs to grow balls, Bush needs to let this guy off the hook or somthing.

    i would like to see what would happen to the libs in Russia and China invaded us. they would call upon guys like Nazario to save their ass… but of course then they would prosecute him.

  25. Davenport1234566

    he’s just a scapegoat…put the generals on trial!!!

  26. Jay7777

    Following orders?????????

    that means shooting unarmed people?

  27. PDizzle

    Erin- Yes, congress writes the law but the President is the chief executive. He can set the ROE and he has the power to pardon. If he set a precident of pardoning soldiers/Marines who seem to have been unfairly prosecuted, lawyers would not push these trials. Furthermore, the President can send a message to the generals that it will be bad for their career if they sell out their men. I don’t hate the president but I also refuse to think that his shit smells like roses. He has the power to make a difference here and, so far, he refuses to act.

  28. ron

    This is stupide. What’s the point of a military tribunal if they are going to be judged in civilian courts? I have no problem with putting someone on trial if there’s reason to think he’s guilty. But if you are going to make a soldier accountable to the military court and the civilian court, then just abolish the military court.

    A lot of people are saying that this is “anti-war guys”, “liberals”, “commies”, etc. You’re missing the point. Sure, these are the assholes pushing for it, but it’s the CIVILIAN COURT that is willing to hear it in the first place. Why? Becaues they are simply horny for more power.

    Yet, anyone with sense can see that is a bad idea. The guidelines for soldiers and civilians are different for a reason. So I have to conclude this, the reason the civilian courts are willing to try to gain power in this matter, is because they are overconfident in the ability of the US to protect itself. Whether they think the army is composed of Rambos, or if they think that they can talk their way through anything ie “talk” a bad guy into being “reasonable”. The bottom line is this - they are horny for power and they are stupidly overconfident in our security.

  29. mshatto

    Erin - Can not support Bush on this one. The President has the power to squash these trials and pardon good men like Ramos & Campeon. It may not have been a pardon, but he sure in hell commuted Scooter Libby’s sentence. He has chosen to let these men hang in the wind. He gets my support on many issues but not on this one.

  30. dadeo

    When do we get to put liberals on trial for war crimes… like sedition and treason? :gun: :gun: :gun:

  31. dvldok

    Jay7777 -

    In the middle of a battle, yes captured combatants will be killed. The mission objective determines capacility to take prisoners.

    If I’m in the middle of a fire fight moving to secure an objective, I have to take men off their rifles to guard and/or escort prisoners which may result in failure to complete the misson/reach the objective.

    War is a brutal ugly savage business that cannot be conducted with blinders on while holding a silver fork and knife.

  32. dvldok

    Jay7777 -

    In the middle of a battle, yes captured combatants can be killed. The mission objective determines capability to take prisoners.

    If I’m in the middle of a fire fight moving to secure an objective, I have to take men off their rifles to guard and/or escort prisoners which may result in failure to complete the misson/reach the objective.

    War is a brutal ugly savage business that cannot be conducted with blinders on while holding a silver fork and knife.

  33. Hardball1911

    Gay7777,

    Who the fuck said they were unarmed? The press. That is who. It is a regular tactic to retrieve the rifles and weapons from dead combatants so that the weapons can be reused in the fight against us. Are you THAT thick headed?

    There are times as well that civilians get caught in the middle of a fight without recourse. If they don’t remove themselves, they have a high chance of dying right beside the combatants in the fight.

    It is obvious that you have 1. never been there, and 2. never seen a days service worthwhile.

    Leave the fighting to the warriors. Leave their decisions in the field alone and without reproach and you won’t have a revolt against your tyranny. Tell them they are wrong for surviving and I will choke you with my own two hands until you are as dead as the “unarmed civilians” you claim to give a fuck about. The “unarmed civilians” you claim to care about would have no fucking concern when it came to your head being cut off brutally by Jihad Haji. They would dance around your still bleeding stump…

  34. Unbreakable

    :arrow: mike3481

    T.E. Lawrence never actually said that. Hollywood tells nothing but fucking lies and fabrications. He and his Arabs took lots of prisoners. Read “Revolt in the Desert”.
    _________________________________________________

    :arrow: Jay7777

    You weren’t there, you don’t know the full story. Besides that, you sound like a fucking troll, get the fuck out.

  35. Kim

    :arrow: dvldok

    In the middle of a battle, yes captured combatants can be killed. The mission objective determines capability to take prisoners.

    If I’m in the middle of a fire fight moving to secure an objective, I have to take men off their rifles to guard and/or escort prisoners which may result in failure to complete the misson/reach the objective.

    War is a brutal ugly savage business that cannot be conducted with blinders on while holding a silver fork and knife.

    Well said Devil Doc! I think CDR Richard Jadick’s book “On Call In Hell” gives a very telling reality of the battle in Falleluja. There were no “innocent civilians” wandering around Fallujah. The city had been emptied of civilians and only jihadis were left and looking for a fight.

    The fact that a civilian court will judge a military matter sickens me. It cannot be a trial by peers. A civilian who has never known war but only the comfort and security of a soft American existence cannot fairly judge the “brutal ugly savage business” that is war. This is a travesty of justice, and someone stated above to contact Duncan Hunter to get this law changed. I think that is a good idea as well as contacting your particular Congressman to address this law.

  36. Kim

    :arrow: Congressman Ken Calvert (R-CA)

    Ken Calvert is the Congressman for Riverside, California, the 44th district. He should be contacted as well as your own Congressman to address rewriting this law.

  37. POD1

    :arrow: el Vaquero

    Site to help this Marine:
    http://warchronicle.com/TheyAreNotKillers/Fallujah04/DOM_Appeal_06AUG08_142.htm

    Thanks for the link, I’ll put it to good use.

  38. Paslode

    He deserves a medal not a rail roading :mad:

  39. Sandy

    None of these kinds of issues should ever be decided by civilian courts.

    dvldok & Hardball1911

    You both covered everything very well.

  40. T-Bagg

    Fuck those fucking fucks. Fuck them. Who the fuck are they to judge. I’m to fucking tired to think of a good reply. Fuck them.
    Fuck ‘em ’til they fuckin’ bleed from it. And bleed ‘em ’til they die from it.

  41. Anderson S. Wise- VA (America, FUCK YEAH!!!)

    :arrow: dad3-7

    Exactly.

  42. Jay R.

    This is absolutely unheard of. With a Grandfather WWII vet-then 25 years, in DC, as a Secret Agent FBI, a cousin my age, a 13 year Officer in the Navy, and I’m a Geo-Political Pscychology Grad. Student,,I want to know where the fire is burning. It is obvious that someone is trying to use this young man to serve their personal agenda. Who would stand to gain from setting a legal precadent, that completely contradicts the institution of the Armed Forces?
    I would stop throwing around left, right, nazi, communist, socialist,,this is fascism.
    And my money says it’s to suddenly give the impression that the private mercenary protection/security forces (who are under scrutiny from both the soldiers who are making a fraction of the check these folks are, to live under much more exhausting conditions; and the citizens who see the footage back home of some of these boys, running around, having the time of their lives)and the ‘regular’ (i.e., real) soldiers are exactly the same in the eyes of the law.
    That would mean there are definite prosecutions coming up, due to the pile of internet tapes showing illegal activities among a few of the ‘mercenaries.’
    This is a guess. But, if it is correct, what a bunch of Judas m8therf6ck5rs to dis-honor this young man and his service. It makes me think of this quote;(If you are religous, don’t read this)

    “The more you begin to investigate, what we think we understand; where we think we come from; what we think we are doing; the more you begin to see, we’ve been lied to.

    We have been lied to by every institution, and what makes you think for one minute, that the religous institution is the only one that has never been touched?

    The religous institutions of this world are at the BOTTOM of the dirt! The religous institutions of this world are put there by the same people who gave you your government, your corrupt education,,,who set up your international banking cartels.(etc).
    Because our masters don’t give a damn, about you, or your family.
    All they care about is what they’ve ALWAYS cared about, and that’s controlling the whole damn world.

    We have been misled away, from the true and divine presence in the universe that men have called God.
    I do not claim to know what God is,,but I know what He is not. And unless and until you are prepared to look, at the whole truth,,wherever it may go; whoever it may lead too,,,;then if you want to look the other way and play favorites, somewhere along the way you are going to find out you are messing with DIVINE JUSTICE.

    The more you educate yourself; the more you understand where things come from; the more obvious things become,,,and you begin to see LIES EVERYWHERE.

    You have to know the truth and seek the truth and the will set you free.”

    -Jordan Maxwell

    It is time to wake up, ladies and gentlemen.You are being used. Loyalty to those who sell you down the river (this could be many of you), as soon as it suits them, proves quickly to be a liability. The government has the power to do whatever they want. And they can’t save this young man. You are out of your mind!

    Re-examine the complete lack of assistance here. It couldn’t be more blatant or more obvious. :idea:

    -Registered Republican

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