WTF Is Your Sonar Tech Smoking? Chinese Sub Pops Up Amidst US Fleet
Somebody needs to slap a few Sonar Techs around.
When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.
At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical wizardry of the world’s only military superpower offers an invisible shield to detect and deter any intruders.
That is the theory. Or, rather, was the theory.
American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.
By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.
According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy.
The Americans had no idea China’s fast-growing submarine fleet had reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a threat.
One Nato figure said the effect was “as big a shock as the Russians launching Sputnik” - a reference to the Soviet Union’s first orbiting satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.
The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.
The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile aircraft or submarines.
And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.
According to the Nato source, the encounter has forced a serious re-think of American and Nato naval strategy as commanders reconsider the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.
It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was “shadowing” the U.S. fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as coincidence.
Analysts believe Beijing was sending a message to America and the West demonstrating its rapidly-growing military capability to threaten foreign powers which try to interfere in its “backyard”.
The People’s Liberation Army Navy’s submarine fleet includes at least two nuclear-missile launching vessels.
Its 13 Song Class submarines are extremely quiet and difficult to detect when running on electric motors.
Commodore Stephen Saunders, editor of Jane’s Fighting Ships, and a former Royal Navy anti-submarine specialist, said the U.S. had paid relatively little attention to this form of warfare since the end of the Cold War.
He said: “It was certainly a wake-up call for the Americans.
“It would tie in with what we see the Chinese trying to do, which appears to be to deter the Americans from interfering or operating in their backyard, particularly in relation to Taiwan.”
In January China carried a successful missile test, shooting down a satellite in orbit for the first time.
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Oh… snap!
November 10th, 2007 at 11:43 pmWTF…Do we have moonbats at the helm
November 10th, 2007 at 11:50 pmI dont think this is a case of we couldn’t detect the sub. Rather, the fleet wasnt operating in a mode where they where actively looking for a sub.
Peacetime operations are very different then when one is expecting an attack. That being said, They now need to operate in a more aggressive mode when in waters frequented by Japaneses subs.
Its also time to move some sub killers into the area and send back a response.
Dig
November 10th, 2007 at 11:53 pmDidn’t something similar happen not too long ago somewhere in the Persian Gulf area? All of a sudden a Chinese submarine popped up.
November 11th, 2007 at 12:03 amDon’t you mean, “Oh Crap”?
November 11th, 2007 at 12:36 am“world’s only military superpower”
I think we need to stop thinking about ourselves as this. Yes, our conventional military could destroy the world a couple times over but we have learned it does not take another powerful military to hurt us. All it takes is a lone submarine or lone suicide bomber to cause massive damage.
As for this incident, it was probably this exact thinking that there is no one who would or could get close to us because we are so powerful is what led to a lapse in surveillance.
Although the scarier alternative is the chinese have actually developed a sub which can get by our sonars.
November 11th, 2007 at 12:54 amA new cold war on the way here? I assume that our guys are planning a few, “Oh yeah? Check THIS out…” moves?
November 11th, 2007 at 12:55 amWhen China will awake… 1421, China was awake and divovered America… 2012… China will be on Mars, leaving Uranus to you and Moon for us
here is a study about the Chinese admiral Zheng He, made by a former english submarine commandant, who turn into a marine historian ; his marine experience help him a lot to understand (intuitively) the old marine maps, that no academic could do till now
fantastic
http://www.1421heresy.info/Home/Thesis/index.html
November 11th, 2007 at 1:37 amOld news.
This happened sometime in the summer of last year. A couple of things to ponder:
The Chi-coms and PLAN showed us their hand by surfacing. If on purpose, maybe not a wise move on their part. A capability was revealed. Our guys showed nothing. Why would they do this (seems counter intuitive for a sub, of all things, to say “hey, look at me and look where I can go undetected”)?
If not done on purpose, it seems reasonable that ’something’ could have ‘advised’ it to surface.
PING…!
It is noteworthy, however, that the media decided to ‘resurface’ (sorry, bad pun) this story again.
November 11th, 2007 at 3:03 amHey! This is not the first time this has happened. Just a couple of years ago, in generally the same area, the USN faced the same problem. Obviously it has not yet been repaired.
November 11th, 2007 at 3:08 amSo this what we get for free trade with Communist China… poisoned food and toys and stealthy nuke subs.
November 11th, 2007 at 4:57 amCool.
If this continues it could cost us in the wallet as well. The dollar strength is tied to perceived superpower military stength. Naval power in the past has also been a sign of a weakening power that has changed the dominance of the world economy…like England. Get it together boys or start buying yuan…
PS Go COLTS!
November 11th, 2007 at 6:01 amDiesel subs present a problem…in that they are quieter than nuclear ones. They require that the sub surface to recharge their batteries. Ignoring them or not doing a better job of detecting them is placing our fleet at risk.
Our sonar people are some of the best in the business. There is a weakness in our detection process that everyone including the Chinese is aware of. It needs to be fixed.
BTW, shooting down a satelight in low earth orbit is unimpressive. Our critical satelights are in high earth orbit. Getting to those satelights will be difficult to pull off. The Chinese are trying. They are going for our achilles heel. It’s our communications and satelights that are their targets.
One on one, technology against technology…the Chinese are outmatched. So the Chinese are working on tactics against our weak points. That’s what all this is about. That and taking Taiwan.
November 11th, 2007 at 7:41 amYeah… and in its infinite wisdom the Navy has decided to scrap its only shipboard long-range ASW platform (the S-3). The Chinese have been basing their capabilities on our weaknesses just so they could do something like this, and maybe someday pull the trigger.
China is definitely a larger military threat (particularly in the Naval realm) than Jimmy Jihad and Timmy Taliban are…
My fellow Americans… turn off the damn TV and pull your heads out of the sand.
November 11th, 2007 at 7:50 amsince the Chineses “dicovered” Amerika, one can expect they’ll become the sees and spaces masters ; the question is, will they remain the “empire of the middle” this time ; if it is the case, then no worry !
November 11th, 2007 at 9:04 amWow that is crazy I think we need some better sonar techs…
November 11th, 2007 at 9:07 amIf engineering has proven one thing, it is that technology is only as good as the one using it. I agree with the commenter above. Better to find out now that we’ve got a weakness, whether man or machine.
If China thinks this clever, I disagree.
November 11th, 2007 at 9:18 amMeanwhile, the S-3 Viking is going-going-going-gone. They removed their ASW capabilities long ago. If I remember correctly, the best airborne ASW platform is the P-3, whilst helo ASW is not so good. I’m not positive so no slams if I’m way off. The sophisticated screen of destroyers are suppossed to be frontline, and yes, if they weren’t on a ‘footing’ then this is almost understandable.
Believe it or not–with no “cold war” and a rusting Russian Naval fleet–the USN steadily began retiring its CV based eyes and ears (ES-3, S-3) relying on limited capes of the EA6B for ES and shore based EP-3, sattelite, and shipboard receivers limited by LOS.
Those Songs are diesel boats, yes? If so–they are the hardest to detect when running silent.
November 11th, 2007 at 10:37 amFranchie,
November 11th, 2007 at 11:38 amI read the book. Began as an interesting read and devolved into tales that only a Ron Paul supporter or anti-Europhile could enjoy. As a Frenchman you should be know that your Viking forefathers, the Normans are Vikings you know, reached America long before Zheng He is hypothesized to have. In addition, Basque fisherman were pulling Cod from the seas off of N. America hundreds of years before Columbus. As for Columbus, he is revered because he is the first non-indigeneous to assert control over the Americas. It’s the beginning of modern times. The eunich, Zheng He, didn’t make it to America, but he was a brave, heroic figure that should be given great note in history and noted as a premonition of what China is capable of doing with blue water navy. Zheng He is an exciting and heroic figure but please place him in the proper perspective.
mshatto
Why did you have to put Ron Paul there ?
as you should know too the franco-normans invaded UK, and therefore your one of their descendants
well, I know that Vikings went along the american coasts in the Xth century
and the Basque fishermen too
Zheng He didn’t make the travel himself but apparently his ships ; anyway, I won’t argue if it is true or not, I don’t have the elements for that .I find the story “fantastic”, and yes, it’s an image of what premonition of what “China is capable of doing with blue water navy”
November 11th, 2007 at 12:25 pmI always wonder how stories like this find tere way to the mediate. Loose lips seems to be just as big of threat as stealth subs.
USN/EP-3 EW-aircrew
November 11th, 2007 at 12:59 pmWarning: Submarines may contain high amounts of lead. hahaha
I dunno if we werent capable of detecting it or just werent trying to. Is the US really worried about a sub attacking more than on any other given day when not at war? If we were at war with China then we would be actively hunting for subs.
November 13th, 2007 at 7:37 am