RUSSIA/GEORGIA WAR UPDATES TICKER & VIDEOS: EU THREATENS RUSSIA- War Threatens U.S. Chicken Prices - Excuse Me, Does That Aid Blow Up?
PAT’S BEEN TRAVELLING, CHECK SHORTLY FOR REINVIGORATED UPDATES.
UPDATE: Sept. 2nd:
MOSCOW (AFP) - Russian President Dmitry Medvedev no longer considers his counterpart Mikheil Saakashvili to be Georgia’s leader, telling Russian television Tuesday that Saakashvili is a “political corpse.”
“For us, the present Georgian regime has collapsed. President Saakashvili no longer exists in our eyes. He is a political corpse,” Medvedev said.
BRUSSELS, Belgium— European Union leaders warned Russia on Monday that talks with on a wide-ranging political and economic agreement would be postponed unless Russian troops pull back from positions in Georgia.
The threat to delay talks set for this month on the “partnership and cooperation agreement” with Russia came after Britain and eastern European nations held out for a tougher line. But Europe’s dependence on Russian oil and gas supplies effectively ruled out stronger sanctions.
Earlier, Russia warned the West against supporting Georgia’s leadership, suggesting that the United States carried weapons as well as aid to the ex-Soviet republic and calling for an arms embargo until the Georgian government falls.
“The EU would welcome a real partnership with Russia, but you have to be two to tango,” French President Nicolas Sarkozy told a news conference after an emergency EU summit. “We have to re-examine our partnership with Russia.”
Sarkozy said he plans to travel to Moscow on Sept. 8 for talks with the Russian leadership. A cease-fire he brokered to end fighting between Russian and Georgia calls for forces to be withdrawn to their positions before the war.
“If instead of choosing their national interests and the interests of the Georgian people, the United States and its allies choose the Saakashvili regime, this will be a mistake of truly historic proportions,” Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said.
Hours after Lavrov’s comments, the spokesman for the Foreign Ministry suggested U.S. ships that carried humanitarian aid to Georgia’s Black Sea coast following last month’s war may also have delivered weapons.
Without naming a specific country, Foreign Ministry spokesman Andrei Nesterenko said there were “suppositions” that the cargo of military ships bringing aid to Georgia may also have included “military components that will be used for the rearmament” of Georgia’s military. He provided no evidence, but said such suspicions were a reason for Russia’s call for an arms embargo.
Lavrov reserved particular criticism for the United States, which has trained Georgian troops, saying such aid had failed to give Washington sufficient leverage to restrain the Georgian government. Instead, he said, “It encouraged the irresponsible and unpredictable regime in its gambles.”
Neither the State Department nor the Pentagon had immediate comment.
Human Rights Watch said Monday that Georgia — as well as Russia — dropped cluster bombs during the conflict. The rights group said Georgia’s government has admitted it, while Russia continues with denials.
“These indiscriminate attacks violate international humanitarian law,” said Bonnie Docherty, arms division researcher at the New York-based body, who said the casualty toll in only four Georgia villages from cluster bombs and their leftover duds was 14 dead and dozens wounded.
The revelation could provide fuel for Russia, which has traded allegations with Georgia over controversial weapon usage, human rights violations and disinformation.
Huge crowds of Georgians surged into the streets of the capital, Tbilisi, to demonstrate against Russia while others gathered at a Russian checkpoint where soldiers are guarding the “security zone” Moscow claimed for itself after last month’s war.
Large demonstrations also took place in Poti, the Black Sea port city where Russian forces have a checkpoint on the outskirts, and in Gori, which was bombed and then occupied by Russian forces.
Several hundred people marched from Gori to the Russian checkpoint at Karaleti, about four miles north, where soldiers watched impassively but a tank turret swiveled ominously from behind an earthen fortification.
No figures for total turnout nationwide were immediately available, but the television station Rustavi-2 said more than 1 million people participated in the demonstrations that also included the cities of Kutaisi and Zugdidi.
The crowd that jammed Tbilisi’s main avenue alone appeared to have at least 100,000 people. The Tbilisi demonstration started with people holding hands to form “human chains” in an echo of the so-called Baltic Chain of 1989 in which residents of then-Soviet Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia stretched the length of their homelands to protest Soviet occupation.
A 60-year-old demonstrator, Tengiz Kuparadze, said he was in Lithuania for that event.
“Now, Lithuania has become free; it is a member of the European Union and reliably protected against Russia. Georgia will fight for this, and will win,” he said.
On arrival at the EU summit, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said the EU must stress the importance of “the territorial integrity of Georgia” but that the lines of communication with Moscow “should not be cut off.”
British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said the “27 members of the European Union are totally united in condemning the aggression of the Russian Government.”
“While we do want good relations with Russia, I think it is pretty clear from what has happened over these last few weeks it cannot be business as usual. Indeed it will not be business as usual until things improve.”
Russia supplies the EU with a third of its oil and 40 percent of its natural gas — a dependence the European Commission says will rise significantly in the future.
On Aug. 7, Georgian forces attacked South Ossetia, hoping to retake the province, which broke away from Georgia in the early 1990s. Russian forces repelled the offensive and pushed into Georgia. Both sides signed a cease-fire deal in mid-August, but Russia has ignored its requirement for all forces to return to prewar positions.
Moscow has insisted the cease-fire accord lets it run checkpoints in security zones of up to 4 miles into Georgian territory.
Two weeks ago, the words “humanitarian aid” weren’t even out of Bush’s mouth when we told y’all bout exactly what was going to go down at that rodea. This is why you come here. The reportage, the commentary, are not always what they seem on the surface. Scratch a little a harder, look a little closer, and you’ll see maps to the future. Why do I brag like this? Cos Rush Limbaugh does and it seems to fucking work.
5:56 P.M. Wednedsay August 27
TBILISI, Georgia (AP) - Western leaders warned Russia on Wednesday to “change course,” hoping to keep a conflict that already threatens a key nuclear pact and could even raise U.S. chicken prices from blossoming into a new Cold War.
Moscow said it was NATO expansion and Western support for Georgia that was causing the new East-West divisions, and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin lashed out at the United States for using military ships to deliver humanitarian aid to Georgia.
Meanwhile, Georgia slashed its embassy staff in Moscow to protest Russia’s recognition of the two separatist enclaves that were the flashpoint for the five-day war between the two nations earlier this month.
The tensions have spread to the Black Sea, which Russia shares unhappily with three nations that belong to NATO and two others that desperately want to, Ukraine and Georgia. Some Ukrainians fear Moscow might set its sights on their nation next.
In moves evocative of Cold War cat-and-mouse games, a U.S. military ship carrying humanitarian aid docked at a southern Georgian port, and Russia sent a missile cruiser and two other ships to a port farther north in a show of force.
The maneuvering came a day after Russian President Dmitry Medvedev had said his nation was “not afraid of anything, including the prospect of a Cold War.” For the two superpowers of the first Cold War, the United States and Russia, repercussions from this new conflict could be widespread.
Russia’s agriculture minister said Moscow could cut poultry and pork import quotas by hundreds of thousands of tons, hitting American producers hard and thereby raising prices for American shoppers.
Russians sometimes refer to American poultry imports as “Bush’s legs,” a reference to the frozen chicken shipped to Russia amid economic troubles following the 1991 Soviet collapse, during George H.W. Bush’s presidency.
And a key civil nuclear agreement between Moscow and Washington appears likely to be shelved until next year at the earliest.
On the diplomatic front, the West’s denunciations of Russia grew louder.
Britain’s top diplomat equated Moscow’s offensive in Georgia with the Soviet tanks that invaded Czechoslovakia to crush the Prague Spring democratic reforms in 1968, and demanded Russia “change course.”
“The sight of Russian tanks in a neighboring country on the 40th anniversary of the crushing of the Prague Spring has shown that the temptations of power politics remain,” Foreign Secretary David Miliband said.
Western leaders have accused Russia of using inappropriate force when it sent tanks and troops into Georgia earlier this month. The Russian move followed a Georgian crackdown on the pro-Russian South Ossetia.
Many of the Russian forces that drove deep into Georgia after fighting broke out Aug. 7 have pulled back, but hundreds are estimated to still be manning checkpoints that Russia calls “security zones” inside Georgia proper.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel pressed Russian President Dmitry Medvedev in a phone call to immediately fulfill the EU-brokered cease-fire by pulling all troops out of Georgia.
The Kremlin rejected Western criticism, and Tuesday even suggested the conflict could spread. It starkly warned another former Soviet republic, tiny Moldova, that aggression against a breakaway region there could provoke a military response.
French President Nicolas Sarkozy accused Russia of trying to redraw the borders of Georgia. His foreign minister went further, suggesting Russia had engaged in “ethnic cleansing” in South Ossetia, one of the two Georgian rebel territories.
And the seven nations that along with Russia make up the G-8 issued a statement that underlined Russia’s growing estrangement from the West.
The seven—United States, Britain, France, Canada, Germany, Japan and Italy—said Russia’s decision to recognize South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent countries violated the Georgia’s territorial integrity.
On Tuesday officials had told The Associated Press that the G-7 were weighing whether to effectively disband what is known as the G-8 by throwing Moscow out.
Georgia’s prime minister put damage from the Russian war at about $1 billion but said it did not fundamentally undermine the Georgian economy. Georgia, which has a national budget of about $3 billion, hopes for substantial Western aid to recover.
The United Nations has estimated nearly 160,000 people had to flee their homes, but hundreds have returned to Georgian cities like Gori in the past week.
In the Georgian capital of Tbilisi, boxes of aid were sorted, stacked and loaded onto trucks Wednesday for some of the tens of thousands of people still displaced by the fighting. Some boxes were stamped “USAID—from the American People.”
In the Black Sea, the U.S. Coast Guard cutter Dallas, carrying 34 tons of humanitarian aid, docked in Batumi. The missile destroyer USS McFaul was there earlier this week delivering aid, and the U.S. planned to leave it in the Black Sea for now.
A spokesman for Putin, quoted by Interfax news agency, observed: “Military ships are hardly a common way to deliver such aid.”
The U.S. has used military ships to deliver humanitarian aid before, including in the aftermath of the 2004 Asian tsunami.
The U.S. Embassy in Georgia had earlier said the Dallas was headed to the port city of Poti but then retracted the statement. A Georgian official said the port in Poti could have been mined by Russian forces.
Poti’s port reportedly suffered heavy damage from the Russian military. In addition, Russian troops have established checkpoints on the northern approach to the city, and a U.S. ship docking there could have been seen as a direct challenge.
Meanwhile, the Russian missile cruiser Moskva and two smaller missile boats anchored at the port in Sukhumi, the capital of Abkhazia, some 180 miles north of Batumi. The Russian Navy says the ships will be involved in peacekeeping operations.
Russian Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn warned that NATO has already exhausted the number of forces it can have in the Black Sea, according to international agreements, and warned Western nations against sending more ships.
“Can NATO—which is not a state located in the Black Sea—continuously increase its group of forces and systems there? It turns out that it cannot,” Nogovitsyn was quoted as saying Wednesday by Interfax.
Happier Times
Wednesday August 27, 2:12 P.M.
Let’s hear what you think about this…This is a very disturbing statement. The Russians have also just formally recognized the breakaway Georgian regions, which is no doubt going to piss off the West.Full StoryMonday, Augsut 25, 11:48 A.M.
4:56 A.M. Sunday, August 24
1:36 A.M. Sunday, August 24
A fuel train hit a mine and exploded near the stricken Georgian city of Gori on Sunday as Russia faced renewed European Union pressure to make a complete withdrawal from Georgia.
The Georgian Interior Ministry said the rail track used by the train had been mined and a huge pall of black smoke could be seen across the Gori region after the huge explosion.
“The railway was mined and that was the reason for the explosion,” Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili told AFP.
The blast was the latest fallout from from the five day conflict between Russia, where its troops held a strategic port, and the Georgian army.
Sunday, August 24, 1:10 A.M.
Georgians look at Russian soldiers during a rally in the Black Sea port city of Poti, western Georgia, Saturday, Aug. 23, 2008. Thousands of Georgians angry at the presence of Russian troops on the outskirts of this strategic Black Sea port took to the streets in protest Saturday, demanding that the Russians move out.
Guardian:
The proof that Russia is digging in deep in the heart of Georgia
A day after announcing that it had ‘withdrawn’ from Georgia, Russian troops continued to occupy large areas of the country yesterday in defiance of international pressure and in breach of a ceasefire deal signed by Moscow.
The country’s forces were in control of several key areas outside the original conflict zone - including the Black Sea port of Poti and the western town of Senaki. Additionally, troops had established new ‘buffer zones’ around the breakaway republics of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
The United States, France and Britain have denounced Russia’s failure to fully withdraw troops. They say it has blatantly failed to ‘comply’ with a ceasefire agreement obliging it to pull back to its positions before the conflict started on 7 August.
There was compelling evidence yesterday, however, that Russia is planning a long-term occupation of Georgia. The Observer witnessed Russian soldiers digging trenches seven kilometres outside the port of Poti next to the Rioni river and the main highway to Tbilisi.
A Russian flag flew above a grassy camp; around 20 soldiers were spread out in trenches and next to an armoured personnel carrier. A crowd of about 1,000 demonstrated in front of them yesterday afternoon, waving Georgian flags and shouting: ‘Go home.’
‘This isn’t peacekeeping. This is occupation. Their objective is to blockade Georgia and Georgians,’ Fatuna Rubakidze, 29, said. Pointing to the bridge across the river, she said: ‘This allows them to stop traffic to Poti. It means they can always blackmail us.’
The Russians had taken off their regular army helmets and replaced them with blue peacekeeping ones. Locals flung leaflets at them in Russian with the slogan: ‘No to Russian fascism’. The soldiers stood implacably in the afternoon sunshine. Once the crowd left, they took the leaflets away. ‘Yesterday they were regular soldiers. Today they are peacekeepers. Whatever they are, we want them to leave our territory,’ Fatuna, a police lieutenant, said, clicking a photograph of the soldiers with her mobile phone.
The Kremlin’s plan now appears clear: to maintain a significant military presence in Georgia, capable of choking the country’s economy and shutting down its major trade routes. It also allows Russia the option of a future invasion, should it want one.
The deputy head of Russia’s general staff, Colonel General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, was unrepentant yesterday. He said Russia would continue to patrol Poti - even though it lies outside any so-called ’security zone’. Russia insists that under a previous agreement it can station 2,600 ‘peacekeeping’ troops beyond the borders of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
‘Poti is not in the security zone. But that doesn’t mean we will sit behind the fence watching as they drive around in Hummers,’ Nogovitsyn said, in sardonic reference to the four US Humvees seized by Russia in Poti last week. The vehicles were used in joint US-Georgian military exercises.
The general accused Nato of increasing tensions in the Black Sea. American, Spanish German and Polish ships are all heading to the area, with US ships due to deliver humanitarian aid to Georgia today. This ‘did not contribute to the settlement of the situation’, he said.
Georgia yesterday described Russia’s occupation as ‘absolutely illegal’. Moscow’s failure to leave is deeply embarrassing for French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who brokered the ceasefire deal last weekend with Russia’s President Dmitry Medvedev.
Georgian officials yesterday took The Observer by helicopter across a landscape of shimmering green pasture and mountain to the steamy port of Poti. Their aim was to show off its destruction by Russian soldiers - and to point out that they were still there.
Russian bombers destroyed Poti’s naval base, killing five people, on the second day of the war. Yesterday, the gun turret of a sunken vessel stuck out above the turquoise water; nearby a white coastguard boat was listing and sunk. Russian soldiers had ransacked the port’s main building, blowing open doors and upturning filing cabinets. One had written on a whiteboard: ‘Georgian bitches. Die pederast cocks’.
‘They turned up in 23 BMP armoured vehicles and took whatever was valuable,’ said Reza Managadze, a port employee. ‘They didn’t even leave us anything to eat.’ In a smashed-up medical room lay a portrait of Georgia’s pro-US president Mikheil Saakashvili. A Russian soldier had stamped on it. He then added one word: ‘Dick’.
In the town of Gori, normal life slowly resumed after the withdrawal of Russian forces yesterday. Residents began trickling back; a few shops reopened. But the Russians had not gone far, setting up a new checkpoint about 15km north of the city. Russia says that it intends to have 18 checkpoints on the road to South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
1:08 P.M. Friday, August 22
WAPO:
GORI, Georgia Russian troops pulled out of the Georgian city of Gori Friday in what Moscow said was compliance with a cease-fire agreement, but they blew up Georgian military installations on their way out and set up checkpoints north of the city.
U.S., French and Georgian officials later disputed Russia’s assertion that it had complied with the pullout provisions of the cease-fire accord.
The Russian withdrawal from Gori made good on assurances from Moscow that the troops would be out of the city by 8 p.m. local time. But around that deadline, a loud blast shook a Georgian military installation, and Georgian sources said the Russians had blown up a major arms depot. Other explosions followed, and thick clouds of black smoke could be seen billowing up from at least two locations in the city.
Georgian police arrived on the heels of the Russian departure and began setting up their own checkpoints. They were followed by nearly two dozen Georgian police cars that headed into the city from the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, shortly after the pullout. The road between Gori and Tbilisi, a main east-west artery, appeared to be clear of Russian checkpoints, and Russian tanks were moving out of their positions in fields off the road.
The Russians, however, did not immediately withdraw from undisputed Georgian territory, instead setting up a checkpoint about two miles north of Gori and several others on the road to Tskhinvali, the capital of the breakaway Georgian region of South Ossetia.
In Moscow, the Russian Defense Ministry said it was in compliance with the French-brokered cease-fire deal and that troops were carrying out their duties by manning what it described as peacekeeping checkpoints in Georgian territory.
In Crawford, Tex., White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said President Bush and French President Nicolas Sarkozy agreed in a telephone conversation Friday that “Russia is not in compliance and that Russia needs to come into compliance now.” Johndroe told reporters, “It is my understanding that they [Russian forces] have not completely withdrawn from areas considered undisputed territory, and they need to do that.”The Pentagon reported some movement of Russian forces but said it was not yet clear whether the movement amounted to a withdrawal or a repositioning of troops.
The Russian Defense Ministry said in a statement that President Dmitry Medvedev was informed of “the completion of the order to pull out from Georgian territory Russian troops sent to reinforce peacekeepers.”
But a senior Georgian official said the remaining Russian checkpoints violated the cease-fire terms, and a NATO envoy said more time was needed to determine whether Russian was in compliance, Reuters news agency reported.
By late afternoon Friday, the Russians had abandoned a checkpoint leading into Gori, as well as two others in the downtown area. Wire service and other reports from the region indicated that Russian columns were heading away from Gori, the western town of Senaki and the village of Igoeti, their closest point to Tbilisi.
At the same time, Georgian military and police units began reappearing along the main road from Tbilisi to Gori. The highway had been under Russian control since troops moved into Georgia proper through the two Russia-allied separatist provinces of South Ossetia and Abkhazia about two weeks ago.
The final extent of the Russian withdrawal remained unclear. Moscow has said it plans to keep a significant peacekeeping presence in South Ossetia and Abkhazia and would also keep troops in a “buffer zone” on undisputed Georgian territory.
12:12 P.M. Friday, August 22
Georgian police officers wait for a road leading to Gori to be reopened following a Russian pullback, near Gori, Georgia, Friday, Aug. 22, 2008. Waves of hulking Russian military convoys rolled out of key positions in Georgia on Friday, and Russia announced it had fulfilled President Dmitry Medvedev’s promise to withdraw forces from the country’s small southern neighbor.
Russian military vehicles leave a checkpoint on the highway to Gori, Georgia, Friday, Aug. 22, 2008. Russian military convoys rolled out of three key positions in Georgia and headed toward Moscow-backed separatist regions on Friday in a significant withdrawal two weeks after thousands of troops roared into the former Soviet republic.
7:30 A.M. Friday, August 22
IGOETI, Georgia (AP) - Russian forces pulled out of positions deep inside Georgia on Friday, two weeks after thousands of troops roared into the small Caucasian nation aboard hundreds of armored vehicles.
The movements came after Russia’s defense minister said President Dmitry Medvedev had ordered a pullback and promised that Russian forces would withdraw to separatist regions and surrounding security zones by the day’s end.
An armored column was seen moving away from a military base in western Georgia toward the border with the breakaway region of Abkhazia in the late afternoon.
Further east, Russian forces abandoned a checkpoint and roadside position at the village of Igoeti, just 30 miles from the Tbilisi and the closest Russian troops had come to the capital for any length of time.
Georgia’s security council chief, Alexander Lomaia, said Russian forces also were leaving the strategic central city of Gori, which straddles the country’s main east-west highway south of South Ossetia, the separatist region at the heart of this month’s war between Russia and Georgia.
In the west, a column of 83 Russia tanks, APCs and trucks hauling artillery rolled away from the Senaki military base and toward the border with Abkhazia. Georgian police said the vehicles came from the base.
Friday, August 22 5:49 A.M.
TBILISI, Georgia (AP) - Georgia’s security council chief says Russian troops are leaving the strategic city of Gori.
Alexander Lomaia said Friday “we are seeing the pullback of Russian troops” from Gori, a key crossroads in central Georgia.
Gori regional governor Vladimir Vardzelashvili said earlier that 40 Russian military vehicles left Gori on Friday, heading north.
Under the cease-fire deal, Russian forces are to pull back to positions they held before intense fighting broke out Aug. 7 in South Ossetia, a separatist province in Georgia that has close ties to Russia.
The short but intense war on Russia’s southern border has deeply strained relations between Russia and the West.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE.
Russains soldiers sit a top of an APC near village Khurvaleti, 60 km northwest of Tbilisi, Friday, Aug. 22, 2008 as the Russian convoy moved north, in the direction of South Ossetia.
A Georgian gestures, whilst waiting for humanitarian aid to be distributed, in Gori, northwest of the capital Tbilisi, Georgia, Wednesday, Aug. 20, 2008. Some 80,000 refugees are in more than 600 centers in and around Tbilisi, primarily sheltered in schools, hospitals and previously abandoned buildings.
2:15 P.M. Thursday, August 21
11:09 A.M. Thursday, August 21
‘TROOPS WILL LEAVE IN THEIR OWN TIME’
Guardian:
A senior Russian government spokesman said today the withdrawal of the country’s forces from Georgia would take “a couple of weeks”. Russian forces would leave in their own time, the spokesman said, and even after the main bulk of the Russian army had gone, that Russian peacekeepers would continue to occupy Georgia.
“The withdrawal of long military columns will start in a few days. We came here in a hurry to help civilians and Russian citizens and it will take as long as it takes,” he said.
The spokesman said Georgia had misrepresented the ceasefire deal signed by the Russian president, Dmitry Medvedev, and that under those terms Russia could station peacekeepers in Georgia indefinitely
“They [the Georgians] are perverting the agreement. The agreement doesn’t indicate a specific time for withdrawal.”
A Russian soldier walks back to his convoy on the main Gori-Tbilisi road.
“The deal means we are able to take responsibility for the safety of our military personnel,” he said. “Our withdrawal will take a few weeks.”
However, at about the same time, the deputy chief of the general staff of the Russian army, Colonel-General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, told reporters: “The pullback has started at such a pace that by the end of August 22 all the forces of the Russian Federation will be behind the line of our zone of responsibility.” Russia has made conflicting statements over its intentions for much of the past week.
Some Russian tanks were seen leaving Georgia overnight. Reuters news agency reported 21 tanks, rocket launchers and armoured cars moved north through the Roki tunnel that separates the Ossetia region from Russia.
Elsewhere, the Russians appeared to be strengthening their grip. Troops were seen today digging trenches and setting up mortars around the western Georgian port of Poti.
The Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili, said that Russian manoeuvres reflected “some kind of deception game”.
“They don’t show any sign that they want to give up control,” he told a news conference in Tbilisi. “It looks like the word withdrawal is understood in different ways by different people.”
Aid agencies have been trying to reach an estimated 159,000 people displaced by the conflict. The UN high commissioner for refugees reported today that 15,000 people in western Georgia were “in dire need of assistance” and cut off from the capital, Tbilisi.
Nato’s special envoy for the Caucasus and central Asia, Bob Simmons, arrived in Tbilisi today for talks with the government over deepening cooperation with the alliance. He was accompanied by a team of specialists in civil emergency planning to help Georgia deal with its immediate humanitarian needs, but Simmons will also be discussing the rebuilding of Georgia’s armed forces and the path to full Nato membership.
Georgia’s deputy foreign minister, Giga Bokeria, welcomed comments made yesterday by David Miliband, Britain’s foreign secretary, saying the formal process leading to Nato membership had already begun.
Bokeria told the Guardian that the Russian occupation had backfired and accelerated Georgia’s progress towards Nato. But he said Georgia had suffered as a result of earlier Nato indecision over its membership potential.
“Some European states made an honest mistake not to make a clear and ambiguous signal to Russia, and Georgia has paid the price,” Bokeria said.
8:33 A.M. Thursday, August 21
POTI, Georgia (AP) - Russian forces blocked the only land entrance to Georgia’s main port city on Thursday, a day before Russia promised to complete a troop pullout from its ex-Soviet neighbor.
Armored personnel carriers and troop trucks blocked the bridge to the Black Sea port city of Poti, and Russian forces excavated trenches and set up mortars facing the city. Another group of APCs and trucks were positioned in a nearby wooded area.
Although Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has promised that his forces would pull back by Friday, Russian troops appear to be digging in, raising concern about whether Moscow is aiming for a lengthy occupation of its small, pro-Western neighbor.
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili told The Associated Press that Russia was thinning out its presence in some occupied towns but was seizing other strategic spots. He called the Russian moves “some kind of deception game.”
“(The Russians) are making fun of the world,” he declared.
Nonetheless, a top Russian general troops were moving out in accordance with an EU-sponsored cease-fire.
“The pullback of Russian forces is taking place at such a tempo that by the end of August 22 they will be in the zones of responsibility of Russian peacekeepers,” Col.-Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, the deputy head of the general staff, said at a briefing.
The truce says both Russian and Georgian forces must move back to positions they held before fighting broke out Aug. 7 in Georgia’s separatist republic of South Ossetia, which has close ties to Russia. The agreement also says Russian forces can work in a so-called “secu
Russian soldiers in armored vehicles, are seen on the outskirts of Gori, northwest of the capital Tbilisi, Georgia
12:41 P.M. Wednesday, August 20
SACHKHERE, Georgia (AP) - Russian forces on Wednesday built a sentry post just 30 miles from the Georgian capital, appearing to dig in to positions deep inside Georgia despite pledges to pull back to areas mandated by a cease-fire signed by both countries.
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev says his troops will complete their pullback by Friday, but few signs of movement have been seen other than the departure of a small contingent that have held the strategically key city of Gori.
Conditions throughout much of Georgia remained tense.
Russian soldiers were setting up camp Wednesday in at least three positions in west-central Georgia. Further east, soldiers were building a sentry post of timber on a hill outside Igoeti, 30 miles from Tbilisi and the closest point to the capital where Russian troops have maintained a significant presence.
A top Russian general, meanwhile, said Russia plans to construct nearly a score of checkpoints to be manned by hundreds of soldiers in the so-called “security zone” around the border with South Ossetia.
And at a military training school in the mountain town of Sachkhere, a Georgian sentry said he feared Russian forces will make good on their threat to return after a confrontation the day before.
The sentry, who gave his name only as Corporal Vasily, said 23 Russian tanks, APCS and heavy guns showed up at the base on Tuesday and demanded to be let in. The Georgians refused and the Russians left after a 30-minute standoff but vowed to return after blowing up facilities in the village of Osiauri, he said.
Georgia’s Defense Ministry said Wednesday that Russian soldiers destroyed military logistics facilities in Osiauri, but the claim could not immediately be confirmed.
“We’re trying not to provoke them; otherwise they’ll stay here for five to six months,” Vasily said. He said the school itself had no heavy weapons or other significant strategic value, unlike the military base raided by Russians at Senaki, “where they even took the windows off the buildings.”
The Kremlin said Medvedev told French President Nicolas Sarkozy by phone Tuesday that Russian troops would withdraw from most of Georgia by Friday—some to Russia, others to South Ossetia and a surrounding “security zone” set in 1999.
The White House has made clear that it expects Russia to move faster.
10:58 A.M. Wednesday, August 20
From the Guardian:
French, British and US officials are drafting a UN security council resolution in New York stiffening the terms of a Russian pullout, and agreement was reached to deploy the first western monitors in Georgia. Twenty unarmed military officers are to go to Georgia tomorrow, with another 80 expected to follow within weeks.
But the agreement to deploy international monitors took a week to finalise and was only sealed after negotiations through the night yesterday in Vienna by Finnish diplomats and the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe, together with the Russians and the Georgians.
The agreement suited the Russians, who had insisted the monitors not be permitted into South Ossetia. The observers are to patrol in “Georgia proper” and in what the Russians describe as their “security zone” bordering South Ossetia.
“The Russian side supports the deployment of a considerable number of additional observers in the security zone,” said the Russian foreign ministry.
“There is no security zone,” the US under-secretary of state, Dan Fried, told the Guardian.
Georgians confront Russian soldiers at a check-point, demanding their ouster, as a Russian armoured personnel carrier passes on the road from Tbilisi to Gori near Kaspi August 20, 2008.
Russian soldiers atop armoured personnel carriers occupy a village near the road from Tbilisi to Gori August 20, 2008.
An elderly Georgian couple escapes from a house set on fire by South Ossetian militia in the Georgian village of Kvemo-Achebeti outside the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali, August 20, 2008.
Wednesday, August 20, 7:50 A.M.
If you missed this from a story posted yesterday, it’s important to know.:
NATO Won’t Hit Russia Hard Due To Energy Dependence
BRUSSELS, Belgium - NATO pulled its punches against Russia on Tuesday, suspending formal contacts as punishment for the Georgia invasion but bucking U.S. pressure for more severe penalties.
The Russian ambassador to NATO played down the impact of the emergency meeting of the Western alliance.
“The mountain gave birth to a mouse,” said Dmitry Rogozin.
Although the allies said they would not convene any more meetings of the NATO-Russia Council until Russian troops withdraw from Georgia, they bowed to concerns from Europe — which depends heavily on Russia for energy — and stopped short of adopting specific long-term steps to punish Moscow for its actions.
Wednesday, August 20, 6:18 A.M.
POTI, Georgia (AP) ― Russian soldiers took about 20 Georgian troops prisoner in Poti — Georgia’s key oil port city on Tuesday, blindfolding them and holding them at gunpoint, and commandeered American Humvees awaiting shipment back to the United States. As of this morning, Georgia is reporting that the soldiers and Humvees are still missing.
The move came as a small column of Russian tanks and armored vehicles left the strategic Georgian city of Gori in the first sign of a Russian pullback of troops from Georgia.
Russian forces blocked access to the city’s naval and commercial ports on Tuesday morning and towed the missile boat Dioskuria, one of the navy’s most sophisticated vessels, out of sight of observers. A loud explosion was heard minutes later.
Homevideo of Georgian warship burning in Poti:
Several hours later, an Associated Press photographer saw Russian trucks and armored personnel carriers leaving the port with about 20 blindfolded and handcuffed men riding on them. Port spokesman Eduard Mashevoriani said the men were Georgian soldiers.
Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said officials were looking into the reported theft of the Humvees.
The deputy head of Russia’s general staff, Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, said Russian forces plan to remain in Poti until a local administration is formed, but did not give further details. He also justified previous seizures of Georgian soldiers as necessary to crack down on soldiers who were “out of any kind of control … acting without command.”
An AP television crew has seen Russian troops in and around Poti all week, with local port officials saying the Russians had destroyed radar, boats and other Coast Guard equipment there.
Russian soldiers take position at the Black Sea port city of Poti, western Georgia.
A column of a dozen Russian military trucks move along the road near Verkhny Zaramag in North Ossetia after crossing the border into Russia from Georgia, August 20, 2008
Tuesday, August 19, 2008 6:58 A.M.
BRUSSELS, Belgium — DEVELOPING: NATO allies say they cannot have normal relations with Russia as long as Moscow has troops in Georgia.
U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and her 25 NATO counterparts have called on Russia to immediately withdraw its troops from Georgia.
NATO foreign ministers say in a statement released after a meeting Tuesday that the alliance “cannot continue with business as usual” with Russia.
NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer says no cooperative programs have yet been axed “but one can presume … this issue will
have to be taken into view.”
6:00 A.M., Tuesday August 19
A small column of Russian tanks and armored vehicles has left the strategically key Georgian city of Gori and a Russian officer says they are heading back to South Ossetia and then Russia.
The column, which also apparently included a mobile rocket-launcher, passed the village of Ruisi, outside Gori on the road to South Ossetia on Tuesday afternoon.
Col. Igor Konoshenkov, a Russian military officer, told The Associated Press at the scene that the unit was headed for South Ossetia and, ultimately, back to Russia.
Konoshenkov said the movement was part of the Russian pullback mandated by a cease-fire that requires both sides to return to the positions they held before the Aug. 7 outbreak of heavy fighting in South Ossetia, a separatist Georgian province that has close ties to Russia.
Russia and Georgia on Tuesday also exchanged prisoners captured during their brief war, a move that may reduce tensions and, Georgia hopes, hasten the promised withdrawal of Russian troops.
Georgian Security Council head Alexander Lomaia said the swap removes any pretext for Russians to hold positions in Igoeti. The village is the closest that Russian forces have advanced to the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, about 30 miles away.
NATO foreign ministers prepared to hold an emergency meeting in Brussels over a unified response to Russia’s invasion of its tiny neighbor, as the Russian troop pullout from Georgia that was supposed to have begun Monday.
A Russian defense official indicated Tuesday that a complete withdrawal from Georgia proper was not imminent.
3:00 P.M. Monday, August 18
2:41 P.M. Monday, August 18
1:30 P.M. Monday, August 18
U.N. Reports Over 118,000 Georgians Have Fled Fighting
GENEVA — The number of people who have fled the fighting in Georgia has risen above 118,000, the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees said Friday.
According to figures provided by governments in the area, some 45,000 people have fled from the breakaway province of South Ossetia, said UNHCR spokesman Ron Redmond. Two-thirds of them have crossed the Russian border into North Ossetia, and the rest have gone into other parts of Georgia.
The bulk of the displaced people are 73,000 Georgians who have remained in Georgia proper, Redmond said. Most of them had fled from the strategic Georgian city of Gori, just south of the boundary with South Ossetia.
1:11 P.M. Monday, August 18
DEVELOPING: A U.S.Defense official has confirmed to FOX News that Russia has placed short range SS-21 missiles in South Ossetia, “which pose a threat to most major Georgian cities,” including the capital, Tbilisi.
“Anything such as that, or any other military equipment that was moved in would be in violation of this cease-fire and should be removed immediately,” Pentagon Spokesman Bryan Whitman said. “The only forces that are permitted to remain under the cease fire agreement are the forces that were in there at the Aug. 6 time frame.”
This news comes as Russia’s deputy chief of staff insists that Russian troops were pulling out of the breakaway region. However, there have been no confirmed signs of a withdrawal.
Monday, Aug. 18 11:04 A.M.
No Sign Russians Be Headed Anywhere
Russia’s deputy chief of staff insisted Monday that Russian troops and tanks have begun to withdraw from the conflict zone with Georgia, but left unclear exactly what Russia thought that zone was. In the key Georgian city of Gori, as everywhere else, there were no signs of a Russian pullback.
The statement by Col.-Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn came amid uncertainty about whether Russia was fulfilling President Dmitry Medvedev’s promise to begin a troop pullout Monday after signing an EU-backed cease-fire.
Nogovitsyn told a briefing in Moscow that “today, according to the peace plan, the withdrawal of Russian peacekeepers and reinforcements has begun” and said forces were leaving Gori.
However in Gori, Russian forces seemed to be solidifying their positions and the only movement seen by Associated Press reporters was in the opposite direction from Russia — toward the Georgian capital of Tbilisi, 55 miles to the east.
2:07 P.M. Sunday, August 17
Facing increasingly pointed Western calls to withdraw under a cease-fire agreement, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev told France’s Nicolas Sarkozy that Russian troops would begin pulling back on Monday, headed toward South Ossetia. He stopped short of promising they would return to Russia.
The EU-backed cease-fire agreement calls for Georgian and Russian troops to withdraw to the positions they held before fighting broke out Aug. 7.
But Medvedev’s silence on South Ossetia has fueled fears that Russia could annex the region, which—like Abkhazia—broke from Georgia government control in the 1990s and has declared independence. Getting Abkhazia alone would increase the length of Russia’s Black Sea coast by more than 25 percent.
“Georgia will never give up a square kilometer of its territory,” Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili told a news conference alongside Germany’s Angela Merkel, the latest Western leader to visit Tbilisi and offer support for the country he has led on a pro-Western path, seeking to shake off a history of domination by Moscow.“I expect a very fast, very prompt withdrawal of Russian troops out of Georgia,” Merkel said in a courtyard at Saakashvili’s official residence.
In a statement of solidarity with Georgia, she said that eastern European country would join the Western defence alliance Nato despite Russia’s fierce opposition to such a move. “Georgia will become a member of Nato if it wants to - and it does want to,” she said.As Merkel spoke, Russian tanks and troops continued to control a wide swath of Georgia, including the main highway running through the country, the strategic central city of Gori, the western city of Senaki and the Senaki air base.
9:53 A.M. Sunday, August 17
WAPO:
MOSCOW, August 17 — Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said Russian forces will begin withdrawing Monday from deep inside Georgia, back to the positions they held before heavy fighting broke out over two separatist provinces last week.
Following telephone discussions on Saturday with French President Nicolas Sarkozy, Medvedev said Russian troops would return to zones held before the conflict over control of South Ossetia and Abkhazia erupted into full-scale combat. In a written statement issued from the Kremlin, Medvedev said Georgian forces must also return to their previous positions.
U.S. officials reacted to the news somewhat skeptically, with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice saying she hoped that “this time” Medvedev would “keep his word.” Defense Secretary Robert Gates said at a Pentagon news conference that Russia’s aggressive push into Georgian territory could cause the United States to “revaluate” its strategic relationship with Moscow.
“There’s a real concern that Russia has turned a corner here and is headed back to its past rather than its future,” Gates said. “The fact is we have worked hard to bring them into the community of nations . . . We thought they were headed in that direction. Now we have to re-evaluate all that.”
3:37 A.M. Saunday, August 17
Despite treaty, Russians stay and fuck shit up
On the civilian bombings and massacres a few days ago:
8:46 A.M. Saturday, August 16
AFP:
US President George W. Bush said Saturday that the breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia must remain part of Georgia.
Bush said in a speech at his ranch in Crawford, Texas that the two regions, embroiled for the past two weeks in a bloody conflict between Russia and Georgia, are “a part of Georgia,” and “they will remain so.”
“There is no room for debate on this matter,” Bush added.
5:50 A.M. Saturday, August 16
IGOETI, Georgia (AP) - Russian President Dmitry Medvedev signed a truce with Georgia on Saturday, a definitive step toward ending the fighting there despite the uncertainty on the ground reflected by Russian soldiers digging in just 30 miles from the Georgian capital.
Medvedev spokesman Alexei Pavlov said Medvedev signed the agreement in the resort city of Sochi, where the president has a summer residence, but did not give further details. It was not immediately clear if any troops had begun pulling back after Medvedev signed the cease-fire.
The agreement was signed by Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili the day before. It calls for both sides forces to pull back to positions they held before fighting erupted Aug. 8 after Georgia launched a massive barrage to try to take control of the Russian-backed separatist region of South Ossetia. The Russian army quickly overwhelmed the forces of its small U.S.-backed neighbor and then drove deep into Georgia.
The Russian seizure of territory including the strategic city of Gori about 20 miles from Igoeti, raised fears that Russia aimed for a permanent occupation of the country that was once was part of its empire.
The shallow foxholes being gouged out of the earth at Igoeti on Saturday could indicate the Russians’ intention to stay awhile. But they could be meant for defensive positions to guard their comrades as they withdraw.
4:33 P.M. August 15
Guardian:
Georgia’s president, Mikheil Saakashvili said today that he had signed a ceasefire deal with Russia, ending hostilities over the breakaway region of South Ossetia, as he accused the Russian forces of using cluster bombs, weapons of mass destruction and ethnic cleansing.
In a press conference alongside the US secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, he also accused Russia of plotting an invasion after Nato denied Georgia membership in April. This advance planning had allowed Russia to send 1,200 tanks into Georgia within a matter of hours, said the president, who blamed the west for failing to intervene.
An emotional and angry Saakashvili said: “We are today looking evil directly in the eye.” He said Georgia would “never ever” reconcile itself to any occupation of its territory by Russia and said a “durable mechanism” was needed to deter Russia or it would attack again.
Rice, who was in Tibilisi to support Georgia after it was routed by Russia, said Russian forces must leave Georgia immediately now that the ceasefire had been signed.
“Our most urgent task today is the immediate and orderly withdrawal of Russian armed forces and the return of those forces to Russia,” said Rice. She added: “This is no longer 1968.”
The Russian president was prepared to sign the ceasefire, according to Rice, who said international observers could move in within days to be followed by a “robust” peacekeeping force.
9:04 A.M.
Russia accused of dropping cluster bombs on Georgian civilians
London Times:
Russian military aircraft have deployed controversial and indiscriminately deadly cluster bombs on civilian areas of Georgia according to an international rights group.
Human Rights Watch, which is based in New York, said today that it has obtained evidence proving that the weapons, which were banned by more than 100 countries in May, have killed at least 11 people so far during the conflict in the Caucasus.
Cluster bomb systems scatter small “bomblets” across a wide area and can prove deadly to civilians - particularly children - who pick up munitions which have failed to detonate on impact. The bombs effectively leave behind a trail of landmines.
4:02 A.M.
Stranglehold of Gori Splits Georgia In Two
GORI, Georgia (AP) - Russian troops on Friday allowed some humanitarian supplies into the city of Gori but continued their blockade of the strategically located city, raising doubts about Russia’s intentions in the war-battered country.
Gori is on the country’s main east-west highway about 45 miles west of the capital, Tbilisi. By holding it, Russian forces effectively cut Georgia in half.
What happens in Gori is key to when—or if—Russia will honor the terms of a cease-fire that calls for both sides to pull their forces back to the positions they held before fighting broke out last week in the separatist region of South Ossetia.
Russian military vehicles were blocking the eastern road into the city on Friday, although they allowed in one Georgia bus filled with loaves of bread.
1:20 A.M. August 15
Doubt Remains That Russia Will Leave Georgia
GORI, Georgia - High hopes plummeted into fearful confusion in key Georgian cities Thursday as Russian troops appeared ready to pull out, then returned. Georgia’s government said Russian tanks and other vehicles advanced toward the country’s second-largest city but later stopped dozens of miles away.
Russian troops are still blocking entrance to the city of Gori in war-battered Georgia. Doubt remains about whether Russia will honor an agreement to pull back its forces from the country.
The city is on Georgia’s main east-west road. The Russian troops’ presence there effectively cuts the country in two.
A cease-fire agreement calls for Russian forces to pull back to the positions they held before fighting that broke out a week ago in the separatist region of South Ossetia. The conflict has since seen Russian forces enter Georgia proper.
A Georgia Interior Ministry spokesman says there are no Russian troops in the second-largest city of Kutaisi, despite reports they were headed in that direction overnight.
12:30 A.M. Friday August 15
Russia Destroying Infrastructure During Withdrawal
WASHINGTON — Russia apparently is sabotaging airfields and other military infrastructure in Georgia as its forces pull back, in a deliberate attempt to cripple the already battered, U.S.-trained Georgian military, a U.S. official said Thursday.
Reports from Georgia indicate that Russian forces are doing what they can to disable Georgia’s ability to fight a future conflict, the official said. The official spoke on condition of anonymity to describe incomplete but apparently convincing eyewitness accounts.
Explosions were heard near Gori on Thursday as a Russian troop withdrawal from the strategic city seemed to collapse. A fragile cease-fire appeared even more shaky as Russia’s foreign minister declared that the world “can forget about any talk about Georgia’s territorial integrity.”
Meanwhile the United States poured aid into the Georgian capital of Tbilisi in a Pentagon mission directly challenging Russia’s military moves to retake territory in the former Soviet republic. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice launched emergency talks in France aimed at heading off a wider conflict.
Two aid flights were carrying cots, blankets and medicine for refugees displaced by the weeklong fighting. The shipment arrived on a C-17 military plane, an illustration of the close U.S.-Georgia military cooperation that has angered Russia.
12:05 A.M. Friday, August 15
Administration Reeling From Collapse Of Georgia
The Bush administration is reeling from the near collapse of its closest friend among the former Soviet republics, a strategic Black Sea nation that is an emerging pathway for undeveloped energy reserves and that has worn its zeal for America and the West as a badge of honor.
As the United States mustered humanitarian aid for Georgia, President George W. Bush demanded that Russia end all military activity inside its neighbor and withdraw all troops sent in recent days onto Georgian territory.
Bush announced that U.S. military assets and personnel would be deploying into the conflict zone. Though they going there only on a humanitarian mission, he made a point of noting that “we will use U.S. aircraft, as well as naval forces” to distribute supplies. He warned Russia not to impede relief efforts in any way.
All this appeared designed to answer criticism that Bush has not done enough to stand by his 2005 pledge, made from the center of Tbilisi before tens of thousands of citizens, to “stand with” the people of Georgia.
Amid some fear that Russian troops may be setting up for some type of medium-term occupation of parts of Georgia or even have intentions to press on to its capital of Tbilisi, Bush promised Wednesday to “rally the free world in the defense of a free Georgia.”
Speaking in grave tones at the White House, Bush decried Moscow’s apparent violation of a cease-fire agreement.
He demanded that Russia “keep its word and act to end this crisis.”
“The United States stands with the democratically elected government of Georgia and insists that the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Georgia be respected,” he said.
The president postponed Thursday’s planned start of a two-week Texas vacation for a couple of days to monitor developments.
Be respectful of others and their opinions. Inflammatory remarks and inane leftist drivel will be deleted. It ain’t about free speech, remember you’re in a private domain. My website, my prerogative.
If you can't handle using your real email address, don't bother posting a comment.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates said he saw no need to invoke American military force in the nearly week-old war, despite continued uncertainty about Russia’s next move.
“The United States spent 45 years working very hard to avoid a military confrontation with Russia. I see no reason to change that approach today,” Gates said at the Pentagon.
taking off his coat to reveal a shirt that says once a Pussie always a Pussie.
August 15th, 2008 at 1:27 amAnd it probably wasn’t what the C-17’s brought that was important, it was what they took away.
August 15th, 2008 at 1:29 amSend in some B2’s and let these pricks have it. or just give all Russia’s neighbour’s b2’s
im sure they would love it.
August 15th, 2008 at 1:38 amThe U.S. didn’t stop billions of dollars in economic and other aid to Russia during the war with Chechnya. It didn’t stop the aid when Russia said it planned on making nuclear reactors in Iran in 1996.
If any kind of financial aid is currently being funneled to Russia, I say stop it immediately. And don’t worry about the negative press. No matter what the U.S. does, most of the world press is going to excoriate us anyway. Let’s do something that’s right for the U.S., for once.
August 15th, 2008 at 2:53 amtaking off his coat to reveal a shirt that says once a Pussie always a Pussie. LOL
August 15th, 2008 at 4:20 amRussia is throwing dirt in our face and all we can say is throw some more.
What do you think they took away?
August 15th, 2008 at 4:57 amRussian butchers targeting civilians with cluster munitions in Gori and Ruisi:
Human Rights Watch said Russian aircraft dropped RBK-250 cluster bombs, each containing 30 PTAB 2.5M submunitions or bomblets, on the town of Ruisi in the Kareli district of Georgia on August 12, 2008 killing three civilians and wounding five others.
The organisation claims that on the same day a cluster strike in the centre of Gori killed at least eight civilians and injured dozens. The Dutch journalist Stan Storimans was among the dead.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4539186.ec
http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-35021820080815
August 15th, 2008 at 6:14 am
Mark Tanberg, Mr.Gates is forgetting some confrontations that happened after the Cuban missile crisis. The one I remember,because it involved me, was the US move to bomb Hanoi. I was stationed in Germany and we were put on high alert status as well as the Russians.Sometimes confrontations amount to who blinks first.
August 15th, 2008 at 6:25 amGary Gagliardi teaches the philosophy of Sun Tsu. In his blog he writes short paragraphs of how Sun Tsu tactics work in our daily lives. He writes:
Thanks to advances communication and transportation, the world has grown progressively smaller, but those who think that we can protect America by ignoring the political plight of free people around the world are smaller still.
http://www.artofwarplus.com/wordpress/
The US has lost it’s nerve in facing Russia. The signal of weakness, and lack of “what if” strategy and strained military from middle east involvement shows Russia planned this near perfect. All the world is watching and taking notes. The US looks like a well spanked child. Missles in Poland. I assure they will put try to place some of theirs in the Western hemisphere, forcing us to forget Poland.
The signal being sent is clear . Russia can do whatever it wants and the US will not do anything to stop them. The Russians have been supplying weapons to our enemies and we have stood by and literally said nothing. Why do you think that is.
History is repeating itself except this time Russia is much stronger economically. We once again have literally helped our enemy to defeat us politically.
This will only strenghen the resolve of Iran, Hizbollah, and Hamas who poses a much more serious threat to our continent. We have let too damn many of them in our country and they now plan our own demise from within. Plus, now, they just got bolstered by Russia’s obvious disgust for the US. What do you think will happen now that Russia has showed its true feelings about us?
Maybe we should begin looking into what has already been planned behind by the Rsskies behind our backs and with our other enemies and focus on saving our own ass.
The reality is that the US could lose any confrontation with Russia. Since we do not intend to use nukes either, we are faced with the bleak future that the Russians can force us to eat their shit and we may only be able to say, “Can I have a spoon …” The Russians are our enemies and they now
August 15th, 2008 at 6:35 amare free to further help our other enemies.
These governments are working hard on social policies instead of racheting up military spending. They had 20 years to ensure freedom for their people but instead provided free medical care. Freedom always requires blood. I can only hope the rest of the once soviet block countries can learn the lessons.
August 15th, 2008 at 7:38 amMaybe the MSM will finally choke on their own words, about the, “Cold War” is over bs! And maybe, some of the vital defense equipment will finally get funded, such as lots of new subs, planes, missiles, etc… (built here in USA), and scrap those “treaties” that hinder our nations defense posture. Our “backyard” includes Venezuela and Nicaragua, why should these countries be allowed to bring terrorist organizations to our backdoor?
August 15th, 2008 at 7:50 am“..why should these countries be allowed to bring terrorist organizations to our backdoor?”
Apparently we are no longer a serious country.
August 15th, 2008 at 8:21 amSending France, half of the ‘Socialist alliance’ that created this mess in Georgia, to negotiate a cease-fire is seriously messed up. Why expect anything better when it comes to our own hemisphere? Gates and Rice give lip service to ‘policy based on American national interests’ but I don’t see it. I’m very disappointed in them the last week.
Send some A-10’s their way.
I have been saying for a decade that we have been ignoring the wrong enemies. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if Russia was behind the insurgency in Iraq both monetarily and logistically. Iran was just the filter medium.
August 15th, 2008 at 8:34 amsully your bilebag is overwelwing your perception
I guess that you should have gone there and make your miracle, I bet you would came back in POS
Now, if you want the escalation on war go on, you’ll have it on your nice moral counscience, I’ll be counting the casualties
August 15th, 2008 at 9:14 amfranchie, you’re an appeasing Socialist liar.
August 15th, 2008 at 9:28 amsay something intelligent or stfu
sully you are a bellicous battery rooster that has no moral to fake what suits your agenda
August 15th, 2008 at 9:32 am“Now, if you want the escalation on war go on, you’ll have it on your nice moral counscience, I’ll be counting the casualties.”
How exquisitely French.
August 15th, 2008 at 9:37 amBetter to live on your knees than die on your feet, eh, franchie?
And once again the EU and UN are twiddling their thumbs, perpetuating the fact that the U actually stands for “Useless.”
August 15th, 2008 at 9:45 amokay franchie… one more chance… everything you’ve posted on this subject has been (like your President) calls for appeasement of Russia.
August 15th, 2008 at 9:53 amExplain to us how that actually works.
No links.
Your own words.
There’s a great article by John Bolton on this subject on the Telegraph.co.uk website. Good grief, is he the only man in America that understands how to deal with these things? Essentially, he smartly lays out concrete steps that Nato needs to take now.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/2563260/John-Bolton-After-Russias-invasion-of-Georgia-what-now-for-the-West.html
August 15th, 2008 at 10:02 amsully you’ll have to check the next days, you can’t expect that the 2 factions will stop just with the thumb up
It’s doesn’t help to ignify the spirits, can’t see there is a raisonable proposition from you up to now, just bomb bomb, escalation till where? that China will decret war against you either, that’s a probability post OG though
August 15th, 2008 at 10:04 amIf Condi’s saying “get out”..what is the “or else”…what will/can be done. Freezing assets?… NATO?…yeah,right…G8 membership?….
Now they are threatening Poland, once again proving why Poland needs the missile shield to begin with. The missiles are conventional, not nukes. Now they are threatened by Poland and the Czech republic….Who has the history of agression and occupation… us or them?… Bullies always feel threatened when they can’t excersise their will.
August 15th, 2008 at 10:06 amyeah right… more bullshit from franchie not answering a direct request to explain how the french position of appeasing enemies and selling out friends works…. it’s just their ‘nature’.
August 15th, 2008 at 10:15 amwhat friends ? blackwaters ? they ain’t our friends, you neither, BUT with your big mouth you’ll never go there, just blah blah,
August 15th, 2008 at 10:19 amRussian convoy moves deeper inside Georgia
Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:59pm EDT
IGOETI, Georgia (Reuters) - A Russian military convoy advanced to within 55 km (34 miles) of Tbilisi on Friday, a Reuters witness said, in the deepest incursion since conflict with Georgia erupted last week.
The advance by some 17 armored personnel carriers (APCs) and about 200 soldiers coincided with a visit by U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to secure Georgia’s signature on a French-brokered peace plan to end the fighting.
Initially 10 APCs moved along the main highway from the Russian-occupied town of Gori, 25 km (15 miles) from breakaway South Ossetia, before stopping in the village of Igoeti. Several APCs headed down side roads and seven more arrived later.
The exact mission of the incursion was not clear.
http://www.reuters.com/articlePrint?articleId=USLF7284720080815
August 15th, 2008 at 10:39 amSomebody really needs to put down the French/English dictionary and step away from the keyboard.
August 15th, 2008 at 10:50 amGeorgia fallout felt in Iraq
U.S. troop withdrawal plans could be affected by the exit of 2,000 Georgian troops from Iraq
By Peter Spiegel, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
August 15, 2008
WASHINGTON — Army Gen. David H. Petraeus, the U.S. commander in Iraq, is being forced to grapple with one of the unexpected byproducts of the conflict in Georgia: His plan to withdraw American forces in Iraq was predicated on all partner nations keeping their troop levels intact.
With nearly 2,000 Georgian troops returning home in the midst of the crisis there, the coalition has lost what one senior military official called one of the largest and most capable contributions to the Iraq effort. As a result, the official said, Petraeus is now assessing whether he will have to change his plans, including possibly delaying the return home of some U.S. forces this year…
…another military official familiar with Iraq planning said Georgian troops had been central to a new push to block weapons shipments coming across the border from Iran into southeastern Iraq, setting up a base in the city of Kut and patrolling nearby border regions.
“You can’t lose the Georgian component without some impact,” said the military official, who also requested anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss Iraq troop deployments publicly. “If you had to assess the 30 countries in Iraq as a coalition force, Georgia was among the top tier, both in number and capabilities.”
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-fg-surge15-2008aug15,0,1217779.story
August 15th, 2008 at 10:54 amC’mon franchie…. explain the benefits of appeasement.
August 15th, 2008 at 11:14 amYou live in France. Maybe Sarkozy had something important to say after his Neville Chamberlain moment.
Explain it all for us.
I’m interested in what he has to say
August 15th, 2008 at 11:20 am“Maybe Sarkozy had something important to say after his Neville Chamberlain moment”.
Sarozy’s ?????????? no Bush either !!!!
http://www.turkishweekly.net/comments.php?id=2959
fuck the US-EU pricks
August 15th, 2008 at 11:40 amsully & franchie
I’m not sensing a whole lotta love ’round here…
It’s like friday night at the fights.
But seriously, what is the mood across the pond there with the russians throwing another tantrum, this time w/weapons..Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Afghanistan, Georgia,…who’s next?…Franchie? anyone in merry old Englandistan?..anywhere else?
August 15th, 2008 at 11:47 amI said explain appeasement in your own words. You’ve been posting crap links for a week, including PRAVDA, which blame the victim without any explanation of how the French policy of appeasement actually works to promote enduring peace. The French voting against Georgia entering NATO on the grounds that it would piss Russia off didn’t ‘appease’ like France hoped. Explain how further appeasement works.
August 15th, 2008 at 11:49 amIf you’re unable to explain it just say so.
The French voting against Georgia entering NATO
Escuse-me Germany has a bigger voice, she is stll hosting Nato, not France
But in the case of Georgia, the problem of harming the ossetians and askasians was the reason of the delay : one couldn’t include yet a country that didn’t respect her minorities, anyway that was the official statment.
on the grounds that it would piss Russia off
might be true for the Germans, but not for us, our economy doesn’t rely on Russia markets
didn’t ‘appease’ like France hoped. Explain how further appeasement works. (check other sources than these that reproduct your voice, you’ll see that the US, have also NO intention to harm Russia)
If you’re unable to explain it just say so.
fuck you, is that appeasing for you ?
_____________________________________________
Stevem, hi, can’t help , it’s our modus vivendi
well, dunno yet how the crise is perceived here, seems all the people are in vacation or looking at the OG, it doesn’t seems that this crise is worrying many ; though, I expect that in september the lefties will fall on Sarkozy’s back, cause, that would surely not the decision they would have undergone
I say, wait a few days to see how the things are decanting
August 15th, 2008 at 12:06 pmhttp://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2008/08/13/more-on-georgia/
that says, even if Georgia had been in Nato, that would have accelerated the war process with Russia
though, I have been watching a report that interviewed georgians that were flying from the fightings, seem the problem is the president of Georgia, the people said, “if they (the russians) want him, they can have him, but we ought to be left in peace”
August 15th, 2008 at 1:24 pmMaybe you ought to re-read the article you posted…
August 15th, 2008 at 1:40 pmIread the inner links
August 15th, 2008 at 1:44 pmSince the bear has come out of the cave and is running amok…what’s next? Invade and control the rest of Georgia, conscript the eligible men for military service, attack the Ukraine, conscript their men….
August 15th, 2008 at 1:48 pmFrench for ‘franchie doesn’t have a clue what she’s talking about and therefore can’t explain a fucking thing’.
August 15th, 2008 at 2:07 pmsully , I don’t care , with you it’s horse shit
August 15th, 2008 at 2:19 pmWhat’s “horseshit” is you making assertions that defend Russia and the inept Sarkozy without backing them up.
August 15th, 2008 at 2:37 pmCommentators of all stripes seem to assume that Russia’s move into Georgia was driven by its increasingly autocratic nature. (This is reminiscent of Kennan’s argument back in the X article that Communism made the Soviet Union prone to aggression, which he later regretted.) It is worth considering whether this is a misperception. A powerful body of political science argues that states’ foreign policy actions are driven mostly by their circumstance and interests, not their regime type or the personality of the leaders. Regime type and personality affect how states interpret their circumstances, but maybe not as much as we tend to think. The United States is not particularly tolerant of seemingly hostile states in its near abroad either, whether they are democracies or not.
so Im not expecting a surprise, then again sully the inept Sarkozy, Carla and me tell you “fuck you”, good for your ulcère
August 15th, 2008 at 2:45 pmThat’s not your writing. Where did you find that bit of moral relativism to justify appeasement? PRAVDA again?
August 15th, 2008 at 3:02 pmnah, digg in the link, how comes its moral relativism when it says that US tolerance = Russia tolerance
August 15th, 2008 at 3:05 pmYou show yet again that you have no awareness of your own affliction.
August 15th, 2008 at 3:23 pmThat’s understandable. Insane folks always believe they are normal.
your a fullsy racist, and It will not happen any good of you, I tell ya you bile is going to kill you
parles moi encore de ta morale, tu peux te la mettre au cul
August 15th, 2008 at 3:31 pm“your a fullsy racist….”
Yeah… that’s what Obama’s people tell me so it must be true.
August 15th, 2008 at 3:36 pmyour problem is that you cofound Obama with everyone who is not holding your diatribe, that’s makes also an intolerant of you, I wonder how you can teach philosophy with such a spirit, ah I forgot, your also old then likely not teaching anymore but policing is quite your entertaining job,
A bas les fashists, A bas les fashists, à bas les fashists….
August 15th, 2008 at 3:55 pmFail again.
August 15th, 2008 at 4:12 pmMy ‘problem’ is Socialists like yourself that empathize with and appease violent Fascists like ‘palestinians’ and the Russians because you’re afraid of them.
ah, papy radote, soon in geriatic care I believe
August 15th, 2008 at 4:20 pmFail again.
but I can’t understand why you say such hurtful things…. we’re constantly told how ‘enlightening’ Socialism is for the masses.
Now… is there an actual grown-up at your house there that we could talk with instead?
August 15th, 2008 at 4:52 pmMaybe one we could prevail upon to intervene and get you to put that pipe away?
but I can’t understand why you say such hurtful things….
did I ? I though you had no sensibility, that you are a “dur de dur” ; then sorry, though you pushed the fighting button on
we’re constantly told how ‘enlightening’ Socialism is for the masses, yeah a trick, ya know Obama’s
Now… is there an actual grown-up at your house there that we could talk with instead?
Maybe one we could prevail upon to intervene and get you to put that pipe away?
im the boss, the grown-ups as you said, either watched TV, (OG) though a bit late, or are preparing a rallye with “alpine renault” (sorry again renault)
and they let me smoke my pipe of belgian tobacco
ZZZZZ
August 15th, 2008 at 5:09 pmSully, ignore ignorance. Drive the asshat over the edge. We can watch the frog self destruct.
This is a serious problem, unlike how to sell pissy wine to snobby Americans.
August 15th, 2008 at 5:19 pm“ZZZZZ”
That’s an even better idea.
August 15th, 2008 at 5:29 pmI know it’s hard for you to imagine but maybe while you sleep you’ll dream of a world behind the Socialist propaganda your government spoon feeds you and the internet links you read that reinforce it.
Y’know…. a *real* world.
We really shdn’t blame Gates for cowardice when he is merely doing Bush’s bidding. “The fish rots from the head.”
The Prez loves baseball, they say. OK. How ’bout this: “GW STRUCK OUT ON 3 PITCHES.”
VERY disappointing. Wd John F’ing Kerry have done worse?
August 15th, 2008 at 7:01 pmsully,
August 16th, 2008 at 12:12 amfor real do not react or reply to it, feeds the hysteria, ignorance prevails, you cant make someone to belive or look at things otherwise if that person has a lack of mental capacity to understand
Is it just me or has Franchie gotten MORE incoherent since he first came here?
August 16th, 2008 at 12:19 amAw man! So many words about something that is in fact so
August 16th, 2008 at 12:32 amsimple. The Russians are just testing how far they can go with fucking with the west and those pussie leaders invariably shit
themselves ALLWAYS. Practically the only one who wouldnt take shit from them was Kennedy.
ah thank you sully, but you’ll see next year how restful it is, you might even get your retiremrnt
it’s a “real” world though, aren’t we the “real” policy makers ? your likely dreaming of a “pax americana”, it’s not possible anymore, time to wake up, the western movies are from another century
and my internet links were the conter points of opiniatred right bashing yours…
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zeaky, my little eagle, did you have enough buddies, ya know the wise beers in your bikes bar ?
_______________________________________________________
Gadgeot diddlo, ask sully what incoherence means, he droves the ballet
August 16th, 2008 at 2:08 amGiorgi, I know all about your hate for France ; but see what the Ossetians think about your behaviour, yeah, check the videos, your nice fellows over there, though not all are misbehaving, fortunately the majority, only the brainwashed dreamers like you.
one more thing, I bet your going to apply for an EU passport next, yeah, vacations are quite good over here, BTW, there are many Georgians that live in France, and are quite happy of that,plus, they don’t spit on us.
http://info.france2.fr/monde/45556830-fr.php
it’s not easy to have a bear as neighbour, but if you’d been a bit intelligent, you would have found a way to live peacefully, knowing its habits should have been a good start for reflexion.
August 16th, 2008 at 4:43 amsomeone is PMS-ing here big time
August 16th, 2008 at 5:25 amBTW, I wanted to add that that I write on that board doesn’t normally refect what I really think, or exceptionnally when people seems raisonnable with me, but I am often contrained to follow the bashing joke path, not I don’t find it untertaining though
August 16th, 2008 at 5:27 amwhy do i need EU passport, im fine here, this is my land, i was in the US for a while, then i came back, this is MY HOME …again , you live in an immaginary world, of course, this shit happening way far from your hometown, it looks easy to say hey why dont you live peacefully with russians…and by knowing its habbits we knew they would come over, look why in the fuck i got to reapeat what has been said before, when we warned europenas that “hey motherfuckers, russians are buildnig military infrastructure on and within our borders”, what was the reaction from yall- NONE, EU just swallawed tungues and acted as if they were dumb and didnt understand…the fact that we attacked was because russians were gonna come over anyways, its called preemptive strike, we made them suffer as much as we could before they came over…dont get me wrong but you only heard about this problem post factum, we lived this for 200 + years, we asked for european help, and we got nothing from you, not a fucking thing, jsut - “cant yall guys get along” - tell that to russia, not us, georgia is small country, and small countries start wars with big ones, get it in your head once and for all if you dont want to loose any respect in the eyes of the readers of this website…and get laid or something, or drink a chill pill, all you are doing is childish back-talking and nothing else
August 16th, 2008 at 5:53 amSully
The fact of the matter is that American media is controlled in the same way as the Russian media.
The internet is the perfect spin tool. The facts can be changed to fit the intended target group.
In this case it was already preordained that you guys on this site would take the side of Georgia before any conflict started. Any facts that show Georgia as the guys who started this are swept under the rug. And constant posts re-enforcing this are posted endlessly until the target group is brought around completely to the intended mindset. Kind of like how the devil chases after the soul of a Jew.
Yeah franchie what happened to the link to your site?
Mike from Langley good work
August 16th, 2008 at 6:11 amlook at at that :
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/255/story/47631.html
August 16th, 2008 at 6:39 amkelly, WTF are you talking ?
I don’t care, I don’t have political talks on it
August 16th, 2008 at 6:43 amso this socialist bullcrap your spewing isn’t “political talk?”
August 16th, 2008 at 8:51 amWho is this bear that people talk about.Is it a young virile bear full of courage and strength? Or is an old bear whose coat is losing hair and missing teeth. Stuart Koehl writes this at American Standard and I dont think he is wrong.
August 16th, 2008 at 9:32 amhttp://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/410pebgo.asp
His analysis of what the US should be doing to help Georgia is spot on.
“The fact of the matter is that American media is controlled in the same way as the Russian media. ”
That’s bullshit.
Prove it.
We took Georgia’s ’side’ because they are a liberal Democracy and an ally…
August 16th, 2008 at 10:10 amagainst an aggressor dictator regime … what… 30X its size?
A concept completely alien to the French.
Unless they are the ones in trouble of course.
For those that aren’t Socialists/Communists like franchie, Kelly’s Heroes, etc…
http://www.financialsense.com/stormwatch/geo/pastanalysis/2008/0815.html
August 16th, 2008 at 10:15 amok the global war isn’ t islamists anymore
August 16th, 2008 at 12:16 pmin case, I don’t know Kelly’heroes
A concept completely alien to the French.
but we did, in that way that sarko was Bush’s ambassador,
ok, he did obtain all what you wanted, but apparently none
managed better
there is still no evidence that your government is doing more for the moment
August 16th, 2008 at 12:25 pmment didn’t obtain
August 16th, 2008 at 12:26 pmyeah except for the part about us sending in troops, but you can just ignore that fact.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:27 pmTom in Co, I am surprised that I better understood Kelly’s sentence than you
August 16th, 2008 at 12:27 pmTom in Co, ok , can you provide a reliable source that says it ? are they peace-keepers or fighting troops ?
August 16th, 2008 at 12:35 pmAm I the only one who admired Condoleeza Rice yesterday during the press conference and am proud of the U.S. for telling Russia to get the hell out of Georgia? Some Americans are so used to fast food and expedient wars played out on video games that the word strategy and planning don’t exist any more. You can bet that Bush and others are working overtime to make sure strong words can be backed up by appropriate action.
Some excerpts from Condoleeza’s press conference in Georgia yesterday:
“…Georgia has been attacked. Russian forces need to leave Georgia at once. The world needs to help Georgia maintain its sovereignty, its territorial integrity, and its independence. This is no longer 1968 and the invasion of Czechoslovokia when a great power invaded a small neighbor and overthrew its government. The free world will now have to wrestle with the profound implications of this Russian attack on its neighbor for security in the region and beyond.”
Condi also said:
“…We’ve started work with the Georgian government and have engaged the G7, the IMF and other international financial institutions to rapidly develop an economic support package for the Georgian economy to build on its demonstrated track record and to resume its rapid growth….The package should restore Georgia’s economy and reinforce investor confidence as Georgia returns to its position as a leading economy in the region….”
August 16th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Giorgi, Michael Totten a fair and accurate independent reporter is heading to Georgia within the next couple of days.He is asking if their are people in Georgia that have a story to tell to contact him.
August 16th, 2008 at 1:04 pmhttp://www.michaeltotten.com/
“Am I the only one who admired Condoleeza Rice yesterday during the press conference …”
And what was the Russian reply?
‘We’ll nuke Poland next.’
And not only STILL in Georgia but moving ~100 armored vehicles CLOSER to Tbilisi.
And WTF is ‘retreat to enclaves’ all about?
August 16th, 2008 at 1:25 pmIt sure isn’t get the fuck out of Georgia.
Mike W
ill see what i can do
August 16th, 2008 at 1:31 pmIt was said on his site that anything “don’t involve me getting shot by the Russians” - hes dead on
Patdollard.com isn’t a reliable source anymore?
August 16th, 2008 at 1:43 pmdidn’t say so, just that that doesn’t appear in Bush’s discourse
August 16th, 2008 at 1:45 pmSully
thats why Gates is heading the mission, not the USAID or some UN misiion…the rest of the europe has to just follow the suite… otherwise why would GWB would speak about this on 4 different occasions.
August 16th, 2008 at 1:52 pmim sure that the US is not on the same level with russians and has a delicate approach to certain matters when there is a need for it. I think that waving the US flag infront of russians would not be prudent. The main thing is that the US has made a move, witch is to be followed by the rest, and thats a lot. Today russians blew up a railway bridge connecting the east-west parts of Georgia, so im pretty sure that russians will try to leave as many surprises as they can for whoever is trying to come over to help Georgia, be it hummanitarian or actual military help.
One thing i can tell you that in the past years the Ukranian, NATO (mainly the US forces) and the Georgian forces have been practising on exact the same scenario missions (SeaBreeze 2000(fill in the year you wish) - hummanitarian aid to a “disaster” zone, landing from the ships, evacuating the locals, and supressing the “terrorists, relieving the injured, and establishing control.. well, all this practice has to come in handy
I was likely to choose “objective truth” as a pseudo, , well forget it
uh Tom, my previous sentence was : I didn’t say so, but couldn’t find an allusion in Bush’s discourse
August 16th, 2008 at 1:55 pmi dont think anybody has doubted the reliability of this site
August 16th, 2008 at 1:59 pmfranchie you are the epiphany of the unobjectiveness, be quite child, the grown-ups are talking
August 16th, 2008 at 2:03 pmGiorgi, thank you, all is coming from you is generous donated
for your info, im playing with the “objective truths” that are launched here, quite a hard work, that a child can’t make
August 16th, 2008 at 2:09 pmthe objective here i believe is to rid the world of the blood-sucking tyrants that dont let the rest of the world to roam about their business..whats your objective?
August 16th, 2008 at 2:16 pmmy objective isn’t to empech it, but to defend french dignity, and you can’t imagine how I am busy with this lonely objective, though I can provide my “knowledge” on some events, french or international, that are not understood in the same way across the pond.
August 16th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
franchie, If you really wanted to defend Frances honor you would be in Georgia. The only way France can prove to me that freedom means more then honor is by growing a pair and getting bloody.
August 16th, 2008 at 3:09 pmTom, I understand that you didn’t notice that Sarko went there, that sending troops there not only depends on France, but also on your country, and on a few more countries ; though apart the instructors, you still not yet have troops there
August 16th, 2008 at 3:17 pmMike, escuse me, I was replying to your comment
August 16th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Franchie. Why does it depend on the US? G.D. Franchie how much blood does the US have to waste on France? France has absolutely nothing that I want. You could be still licking the German boots if not for the sacrifices of Americans in 2 wars. And Frances thanks was a big F.O..
August 16th, 2008 at 3:54 pmEurope had better realize that Russia is nothing more then a bully and you cant talk to bullies.Bullies only understand force not words.
“… defend french dignity..”
A worthy cause indeed. One that deserves a capable defender.
August 16th, 2008 at 3:59 pmCould you find one and let them talk with us?
ok, sully you had your dose
Im sorry, none at the moment found interesting to argue with you (your person)
August 16th, 2008 at 4:11 pmI applaud your optimism.
August 16th, 2008 at 4:19 pmI hope you’ll forgive me that I do not share it.
I’m sure the “rest of Europe” will not “follow suit” as you correctly surmise that they must.
How soon you forgot this whole article: https://pat-dollard.com/2008/08/bush-orders-troops-to-georgia/
“Bush orders troops to Georgia”
August 16th, 2008 at 4:38 pmhumanitarian, so did we
August 16th, 2008 at 4:42 pmlink?
August 16th, 2008 at 6:13 pmnevermind, delete
August 16th, 2008 at 6:16 pmfranchie…tom…franchie…giorgi…franchie…sully…
franchie…all I see, just like most on this board, is you thumbing your nose, like you were actually better than anyone else, or had more intelligent answers than most. All I can say is “just like the French to think they’re better than us”. I’ll tell you something…I may be a dumb Redneck (and an Angry one at that), but I haven’t really read anything that makes me believe that anyone should take anything you say with a grain of salt. It’s obvious you are a socialist, I think we both can agree on that. Well we, at least most of us, are capitalist by nature. We also have a sense of pride, courage, candor, integrity, and commitment…which I know is very difficult for you to comprehend. Now I’m not one for being outright rude or obnoxious, after all, I am the Angry Redneck…I have a reputation to uphold…but please, please, quit showing everyone your complete and total ignorance. I ask this mainly to help you out…most here have already come to that conclusion. I know how difficult it must be for you to keep up your “sense of self” and if we are constantly knocking it down a notch every time you post stupid shit, full of misspelled words and answers that often don’t even make sense, I worry how you will fare…well, ok, I don’t really give a shit, but others may.
August 16th, 2008 at 7:07 pmShe’s on the manic side of her Bi-Polar Disorder.
But give her some slack, if franchie didn’t troll here, she’d spend ALL her time in the bathroom cutting herself.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:11 pmtictic, it ain’t sometimes (actally often at this moment)going better here than on fuck Fance’s, that’s why my responses are likely the same as they are on FF by most of the Frenchs there : derision !!! what can you answer in front of perfidies ? do you know “simple french” ? he is my star
________________________________________________________
The Angry Redneck, I respect you for your honesty, I understand that my exchanges with sully were silly, but they were also ment that way, can’t see he ever was honest with me
August 17th, 2008 at 12:45 amsure thing, franchie
August 17th, 2008 at 12:52 amdont get me wrong, the former president of the France Chirac was putins friend, Schroeder is working for the russian GazProm - a kremlin monopoly (medvedev is a fromer CEO of gazprom) so the burden on your part is to PROVE THAT FRANCE IS NOT SOLD OUT TO THE RUSSIANS…is it too much to ask for, cause i think here we’re all getting a wrong impression on your allegiances to the values of the free world and being on the short leash of the kremlin :)))) hiding behind the “national interests” banner is easy, but isnt it in your countrys interest getting an uninterupted supply of energy resources free of whims of some punk ass KGB officer… isnt a lesson of 2 years ago when they shut off the gass to europe cause they couldn’t decide what price to charge Ukraine … and remember, all of the gas the u get is Central Asian gas that russia resells to you at a premium, and the Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan are WILLING to sell the gas straight to its end users and break off the dependence on russia for supplying the resource. now where does yours and your countrys dignity ad interest lay at, kissing ass with russia.. or being an energy independent and expand the land free of totalitarian regimes and growing economies…maybe im wrong with somethig, but shrot-term pleasures with no thought out long-term goals tend to end ubruptly with terrible consequenses..all you do is feeding the monster that in the end will bite the hand that feeds it… stand up for something greater than yourself
franchie
France has no honor. She lost that when she rounded up her Jews and gave them to the Nazis.
August 17th, 2008 at 12:55 amTom in Co, check any news from AP Reuters…
August 17th, 2008 at 12:59 amTitic,
It ain’t (actally often at this moment) fair for the Frenchs here than on “fuck Fance’s”, and my responses are likely the same as they are on FF by most of the Frenchs : derision !!! what can you answer in front of perfidies ? “simple french” ? he is my star
*******************************************
The Angry Redneck,
I respect you for your honesty, I understand that my exchanges with sully look silly, they were also ment that way, can’t see he ever was honest with me
August 17th, 2008 at 1:03 amle paysan en colère,
August 17th, 2008 at 1:13 amI respect your honesty, you can’t understand my silly exchanges with sully, they were also ment that way, can’t see he ever was honest with me
tictic oh my tictic,
uh something tells me that you go too much of FF, very bad influence, you won’t get sane from there
no bipolar, but some guis here have it, no doubt !!!
August 17th, 2008 at 1:18 amSully
btw , frau merkel is due to arrive here, lets see whats shes gonna tell us
August 17th, 2008 at 1:21 amas far being optimistic, well, who knows, i know around 1000 Italian marines expressed their will to participate in a “peacekeeping” operation, Poland - they’re in, Baltc states as well … germany and france - not so sure about them sending troops, maybe some humanitarian aid ….in situations like this optimism is the only thing left, gotta have faith
GIORGI:
Thanks for your posts. Since you’re in Georgia your insight is heads and tails above the rest of us.
You once mentioned skirmishes have occurred with the two breakaway regions since July. So problems have been building. One person posted a comment saying it was impossible for major powers not to know Russia had been massing on the border, and I agree. Our satellites are fully functional. However, this is a political game, for lack of a better word, and there are rules to follow. For example, the U.S. could not have sent huminatarian aid until Pres. Saakashvili requested it. U.S. fighting troops have no business in Georgia, either, unless your government asks for them.
My heart sank when I saw the photo of Georgian men forced at gun point by Russians to clean up South Ossetia. However, like you said, the Russians are no doubt leaving “surprises” behind (like unexploded cluster bombs, etc.) When, and if, American soldiers are requested by Saakashvili, they will enter your country prepared to do the best damn job they can do to the best of their ability. This also means mapping the greater areas of risk first.
August 17th, 2008 at 1:29 amle brave paysan,
I respect your honesty, I am not condamning your country for what it is, nor you can condamn mine for what it is.
history has made them evolve separately, and it’s quite OK that we can still enjoy differences
what seems you incoherent is my discourse, though I often have no other alternative in front of perfidies : derision
though, when it happens that there are coherent opinions on the Frenchs, I usely don’t contest them
saying that I am socialist can’t be more wrong, at least seen from here, just that we are not sectaire, we may agree on some socialist ideas if they fonction in our country, but our motto is also to make money, and some Frenchs aren’t bad at that, lots of the biggest international Cies have a frenchman at the head
August 17th, 2008 at 1:31 amSam H,
OK, you haven’t openned an history book !
why is then that we still have the biggest jewish community in EU ?
your “good” friends, the Poles, have sent X 4 of our left jewish community into death camps 600000 x 4 = ???
make the count, silly !!!!
August 17th, 2008 at 1:47 amfranchie:
If Georgia should have learned to live peacefully with the Russian bear after discerning its habits, then France should be free of riots, rapes, and general mayhem committed by radical Muslims. They’re inside your borders. You’ve been able to study them up close.
August 17th, 2008 at 1:51 amabout sending EU troops, normally it is question of it, like it was 2 years ago in Lebanon, though that’ll probably take the time to organise it and that a decision through UN office is taken
August 17th, 2008 at 8:00 amBillie, that’s not that a romanian expert says
http://www.ladepeche.fr/article/2008/08/11/470574-La-Georgie-internationalise-sa-cause-mais-compromet-son-entree-a-l-Otan.html
ok we have our riots, I don’t think that living in Baltimore, Philadelphie, Washington, Chicago… surburbs is any better
August 17th, 2008 at 8:08 am“my exchanges with sully were silly, but they were also ment that way..”
Now trying to defend FranChe’s dignity?
August 17th, 2008 at 8:49 amALL of your “exchanges” are “silly”.
Because you’re incapable of anything else.
the “objective truth” was one of your favorite expressions, thouth I rather call them the “cheating truths” when we are concerned
I’ll be behind your back to point them out
August 17th, 2008 at 9:20 ambillie,
August 17th, 2008 at 12:11 pmi think that the massive russian army build up around us has been noticed prior to the invasion, and i belive GWB and the state dept has expressed their consernes regarding that matter many times in the past..i think russia is going ape shit cause they know that they already lost the battle for the Caucasus,thats why they are destroying whatever they can as fast as they can. loosing georgia for russia is equivalent of loosing the whole region, remember that we border with every hotspot or are within an hours flight to them. Russians know that they lost, and they lost it when they didnt meet cheering crowds waving russian flags when they entered the Georgia. They definately didnt expect that, they been told by their propoganda ministry that georgians want to brek loose from the “oppresing pro western/american government they have in place” and live side-to-side with russians forevah. its a matter of time before they withdrawl their forces. as i said previously, the US diplomacy is more suttle during such matters, they are not going to wave a US flag in russias face, so i think Bush is giving russians a chance to leave the territory with grace, after all they dont want the total mayhem in russia if they get booted out, they still got a lot of nuclear missiles and desperate people can go for desperate measures. what the US has done for us (and i am sure for the US itslef as well) is unprecedented. we still got 70% of our military battle ready…and it will be utilezed when the time is right..for now every Georgian has to tighten the belt and endure this crazyness..it will be over soon, ill give it several months…and then, nobody knows - we might even host a US aribase with Patriot AA systems in place…not now though, now its time for bihind the curtain talks, and check-mates
…and franchie still goes on ranting on some off-topic stuff ….
August 17th, 2008 at 12:18 pmas far as unexploded ordnance goes, its time to hire the “Halo Trust” and let them do their job.
August 17th, 2008 at 12:51 pm“…I’ll be behind your back to point them out”
If you coulda you woulda…
August 17th, 2008 at 1:20 pmGiorgi, as we say “lâches-moi la grappes et les petits cochons seront bien gardés”
in another words, mind yor business, this is a free place, where I still enjoy the right of response, not like in your pseudo-democraty where apparenly the opposition is muzzled, ie 2007 riots, how many non-counted deads ?
August 17th, 2008 at 1:23 pmGiorgi, as we say “lâches-moi la grappes et les petits cochons seront bien gardés”
August 17th, 2008 at 1:26 pmsully I haven’t got the right tool, thoug h there are fakes that make a good job
August 17th, 2008 at 1:30 pmHaven’t got the right tool? A brain?
August 17th, 2008 at 1:39 pmI spose you’re finally right.
Good for you. The first step to a cure is admitting you have a problem.
suly bin lyin’
yours is done, no response, always the same old refrain that is still available, it’s a bit boring, remove your circuit
August 17th, 2008 at 1:49 pmThere have been great strides in treating mental illness. The new drugs are amazing. You should look into them. The taxpayer foots the bill for everything over there, right? So they won’t cost useless mouths like yourself a cent.
And pick up Rosetta Stone while you’re at it.
August 17th, 2008 at 3:20 pmtictic oh my tictic, there weren’t enough emotion on FF ?
what’s ou pseudo there ?
August 17th, 2008 at 3:32 pmRalph Peters’ latest column:
“As the Russian Dark Lord’s shadow falls across the shires of freedom once again, the response from the West has been confused, belated and inadequate: fear eclipsed courage; ignorance masqueraded as wisdom; and, in “Old Europe,” greed vanquished justice.”
http://tinyurl.com/6aol8h
August 17th, 2008 at 5:40 pmMy mistake. There was a little bit at the end of the link that screwed it up.
http://tinyurl.com/6mhtcw
August 17th, 2008 at 5:46 pmGood ol’ Ralph. One sharp sumbitch.
Now let’s turn Moscow and Tehran into two giant single mirror telescopes and get it over with… start huntin’ us some Klingons or Borg.
August 17th, 2008 at 6:22 pmfranchie
seek medical help , i heard they have a cure
and france is a capital of riots, wtf r u talking about
August 17th, 2008 at 10:22 pmoh the gorgeous Giorgi is laying a new couch
instead of whinnng on a site that is aquierred to your corrupted government, you should try to help your empathetic opinionned compatriots to get a more balanced approach of neighbouring relations, and don’t forget to respect the opposition, that will likely replace you for the next elections, oh wait, your president will have a new ego crisis till then… good luck amigo
August 18th, 2008 at 3:19 amwhat an idiot, apparently i will run in elections and have an opposition that threatens to depose me?!?! wow i didnt know that…by the way the opposition that you mention stands side by side with the country and the president, and i bet you dont know shit about that
u got nothing to say so i will continue making u look stupid as u go with ur cretinism which has no depths …
August 18th, 2008 at 6:56 amGiorgi, I am bluffed by the
-ed spirit of you 
August 18th, 2008 at 7:09 am“…you should try to help your empathetic opinionned compatriots to get a more balanced approach of neighbouring relations…”
Why even bother?? Surely, Giorgi knows that Americans stopped paying attention to French notions of “a more balanced approach of neighbouring relations” after franchie’s countrymen showed their backs to Rommel’s panzers in 1940.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:23 pmMike, your such a brave guy, why are you still behind your computer and not kicking the russian asses in Georgia, show us how brave you are, please ! after that I’ll add you within the Rommel legend
August 18th, 2008 at 1:48 pmi think its time to start a new thread for this topic. it took me 10 minutes to get to the bottom lol
cant believe those bastards are putting short range missiles down in south Ossetia.
August 18th, 2008 at 2:04 pmDoes Putin WANT to have the west destroy his country?
August 18th, 2008 at 2:15 pmThe scary thing is that these missles are nuke-capable. Here are the specs:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/ss-21.htm
August 18th, 2008 at 3:18 pmIt’s time for the US to get it’s shit moving! It’s 400 miles from Mosul to the Caucasus mountains, and we can take out Iran on the way. Fly the B-1s and B-2s into Diego Garcia and every F-22 and F-15 we have into Mosul and 250 F-16s into Kirkuk. The B-2s can take out all the Iranian Nuclear sites and power grid on the first night while the Army and Marines get mounted up on the NW Iranian border. At dawn of the second day we cross the Iranian border with 100,000 troops on a march to Tabriz in N.Central Iran, supported by every A-10,chopper and all the F-16s. The three fleet carriers and two Marine Exp. Forces south of the Straights of Hormuz destroy any military targets they can find in the Southern half of Iran, and then the B-52s pound all the nuclear sites again with 2000LB bunker busters, while the Marines sieze all the oil facilities along the coast (hopefully intact because we’re not giving them back-ever). The F-16s concentrate on Iran from the capital north with the power grid again being a primary target, along with airfields and armor. We announce that we are giving the northern 1/3 of Iran to the Kurds and Azerbaijans to get immediate support from 90% of the northern Iranian population and let them know we will rebuild the power grid when the fighting is over. While we are destroying Iran we start flying the F-22s and F-15s on CAP over Georgia and announce we are signing a mutual defence pact with the Georgians. We announce that any non- Georgian military unit south of the Caucausas are legitamate targets and start taking out the Russian airforce and army units in Georgia-immediately! On day four of the campaign, our troops roll into Georgia and finish the job.
August 18th, 2008 at 3:53 pmThe beauty of this plan is that all the pieces are in position now exceps the air force and we can have them there in days, not weeks or months. We just got to have the balls to do this thing and it will work.
“dont get me wrong, the former president of the France Chirac was putins friend”
In all fairness (and I hate Putin), President Bush probably qualifies as someone who was Putin’s friend (that “I looked into his eyes” statement.)
“France has no honor. She lost that when she rounded up her Jews and gave them to the Nazis.”
Again, in all fairness I think, sometimes, it borders on ridiculous that everytime Frenchie (who I certaintly disagree with) expresses any kind of opinion that isn’t in line with everyone here, someone brings up France’s surrender in WWII.
The reason it’s absurd is this - every time someone brings up reparations, slavery, or Jim Crow laws, the response of everyone is “I wasn’t even born yet, I have nothing to do with that, I don’t owe anyone anything, it’s ridiculous to bring that up.”
So history doesn’t carry past a generation in that sense - which I agree with.
However, with Frenchie everyone changes their tune - suddenly France’s past is very relevant, and, despite the fact that she wasn’t alive then, somehow she’s responsible for it, and whatever she says should be discredited because she’s an “appeasing” French.
It’s the same as saying - “You’re an American, so you must be racist.”
August 18th, 2008 at 5:31 pm“…whatever she says should be discredited because she’s an “appeasing” French.”
Well no…. her posts are those of a moral/political relativist that happens to be french. Her ‘views’ actually do change with her ‘feelings’.
August 18th, 2008 at 5:43 pmThat the french have not given up their appeasing ways is actually just an aside to her liberal Socialist views which are clearly antithetical to the site and, hopefully, will continue to be so for our country.
I am surprised Germany isnt doing anything. Russia and Germany are bitter enemies.
August 18th, 2008 at 8:11 pmUSA is hampered by democratic Congress and elections to come.
“…what the US has done for us (and i am sure for the US itslef as well) is unprecedented.”
Thanks, Giorgi, for writing that. I’ve really been heartened by the firm words recently spoken by Bush and Condi, but they’ve been smart enough not to give the game away.
Would you say that Georgia is by-and-large pro-U.S.?
Hope you don’t mind me adding this here, but Franchie from the beginning has lashed out at you. It may be that she doesn’t like the thought of someone on Georgia’s turf sharing the truth.
August 18th, 2008 at 8:21 pmWhat’s that quote? The French have both feet firmly planted in the air.
August 18th, 2008 at 8:43 pmlets see, today the NATO is going to discuss this matter, as usual there are 2 sides - US,Canada,GB, Eastern Europeans one side saying russia must pay dearly for this, and France and Germany on the other side saying maybe we should be more softer with the response, meaning - doing nothing about it.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:43 pmin general, the population is pro-US, always was, thats why i think french and germans act like it, the want some love too, they actually complained about it in 2004 telling our president why is he spending so much time with americans, and he nswered that the US is doing more than all of europe put together - do something
Billie, I don’t mind of what Giorgi says except when he repeats the crap tha he heard from propgandists like sully in his past life in the US. sully is the “ONE” that launches with full counscience conter-”objective truths”.
What is his interest ? does he work fo a “propaganda” firm ? or just a poor guy tha makes the important, because he believe that his country is powerful ? I don’t think that his history revisionsm is helping anywhere the US, because History will recover the “objective truths” over his popular vindict (that is old of a few century, a remain of anglo-saxon perfid concurrence against the Frenchs) after this neo-cons peripecy (see in their doctrin how they consider that lies are not morally reprehenible if they are ment “useful” for the agenda of their policy). I believe that these times of conter-truths will become a “shame” in the US history
August 19th, 2008 at 12:22 amBillie, I don’t mind of what Giorgi says except when he repeats the crap that he heard from propgandists like sully in his past life in the US. sully is the “ONE” that launches with full counscience conter-”objective truths”.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:28 am… folowig the above post
What is his interest ? does he work fo a “propaganda” firm ? or is he just a poor guy tha makes the “important”, because he believes that his country is powerful ? I don’t think that his history revisionsm is helping anywhere the US, because History will recover the “objective truths” over his popular vindict (that is old of a few century, a remain of anglo-saxon perfid concurrence against the Frenchs) after this neo-cons peripecy (see in their doctrin how they consider that lies are not morally reprehenible if they are ment “useful” for the agenda of their policy). I believe that these times of conter-truths will become a “shame” in the US history
August 19th, 2008 at 12:32 amsully, you are an “antiquity” that has no future in the real life, bizarre that the nowadays facts don’t give you reason
ok Im a moral-poltical-relativist-liberal-socialist, uh, you forgot “arrogant”, what’s next ?
the diffrence with you is that we can adapt and “SURVIVE”
in a century, the Frenchs still will be a reference
I doubt that your “moral” vision still will be the moral concern of your country
August 19th, 2008 at 12:47 amfranchie, dont lie, revisit your posts and follow the logic of your statements and you will see why the replies to you were “full of crap” (btw, please explain what crap r u referring to???) i said that france raised the white flag and became conductor of pro-russian politics in europe that led to the current revival of the evil empire.tell me im wrong, the whole world is talking about that, are they also being propagated by Sully? i think not. georgia was going to get overrun not today but maybe tomorrow, regardless of who’s the president (that is in case of a pro western guy, not a russian puppet) the ukraine is getting ready for its turn, Azerbaijan chose a neutral side as they got the armenian problem ..georgia is just an example of punishment that will follow if any ex-soviet country chooses the political orientation other than a russian one..and we chose not to be with russia, cause in the end this means loosing our freedom… and like i said, we outlived many empires, and the russian one is no different.
August 19th, 2008 at 12:58 amB Verner,
France has no honor. She lost that when she rounded up her Jews and gave them to the Nazis.
I recommand you to read an above post about the numbers, and american HISTORIANS, not the propaganda
BTW, each year Israel allotes the “medal of the Justs” to a few Frenchs that saves Jews during the war.
Do you know that these Frenchs were not avocating to have made what they thought “morally” right, even facing a death threat. It is Isael’s invetigations that finds out.
Now make the comparaison with the other nazy occpied countries, see who is “morally” sane !!!
You’re an American, so you must be racist.
an excellent slogan (and or cliché) for “the Frenchs are surrender monkeys”
August 19th, 2008 at 1:05 amfranchie stop it, what adaptation and survival are u talking about? what references?
August 19th, 2008 at 2:11 amhttp://www.usnews.com/articles/news/world/2008/08/18/why-washington-has-embraced-georgias-embattled-president.html
uh, the neo-con policy makes marvels come true, can’t see that the US army department is happy, didn’t see talks from there, nor a great support
August 19th, 2008 at 4:33 amFranchie -
Read my entire post. I was quoting that from someone else. In fact, I was arguing against labeling you as an “appeaser”.
August 19th, 2008 at 6:57 amTwo things….
You said.. “georgia was going to get overrun not today but maybe tomorrow, regardless of who’s the president”
I agree. The recent run-up of energy values and Russia’s exploitation of its own energy resources gave Russia the financial and political wherewithal to start reinvigorating its military and pursue its imperial aims now.
At this stage that is still a good deal of bluster. If it is not checked forcefully… in my opinion two or three years from now it will be much more dangerous.
You said… “Azerbaijan chose a neutral side as they got the armenian problem”
I’ve read that the “Armenian problem” has been financed by Russia. To the tune of $1 billion so far this year.
And we should try our best to practice what we preach to our own leaders as far as the French. Ignore them. As a famous American writer observed… ‘you never can prove anything to a lunatic — for that is a part of their insanity and the evidence of it.’
Good luck to you Giorgi.
August 19th, 2008 at 7:09 amSounds like everyone here is quoting “Casablanca”
Georgia is going to regret this. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon and forever.
“Round up the usual suspects.”
“Get outta here, you crazy Russian!”
Etc. Etc.
August 19th, 2008 at 7:34 amGiorgi, the logic of my comments was that one of a “paso doble” with mainly one twisted partner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS0p63pylDc
georgia is just an example of punishment that will follow if any ex-soviet country chooses the political orientation other than a russian one
Yeah, that’s right but it was also a response to the missiles plan in Poland
August 19th, 2008 at 8:07 amB Verner, sorry, I didn’t catch the “help” figure of yours
and are you making “irony” when you said “labelling you as an appeaser” ?
August 19th, 2008 at 8:16 amUnbreakable
August 19th, 2008 at 8:19 amOh good… the liberal support group is here.
“Georgia is going to regret this. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon and forever.”
“Regret” what? Blundering into being attacked?
August 19th, 2008 at 8:27 amfranchie i dont have time arguing with you and collecting your replys. it seems that every time i would say something, you had to say the opposite, and in very wrong manner and attitude at that. just wait and see, give it couple of months for the situation to simmer down a bit, and after that we will see who will have to “eat the hat” …time will tell
August 19th, 2008 at 8:27 amAnd we should try our best to practice what we preach to our own leaders as far as the French. Ignore them. As a famous American writer observed… ‘you never can prove anything to a lunatic — for that is a part of their insanity and the evidence of it.’
the preacher of morals, non relative though, but that only represents the neocons’, uh, 8 %, 9 % in the US, that makes policy with Bible versets and or quotes of the net library, that suits his vision of the evils, freedom of thought, is the moral anathem’s, but he can’t see yet that he is on Uranus, ok he does, but he still twists the desesperate “objective truths”
August 19th, 2008 at 8:32 amGiorgi, no probs, when you’ll open big eyes, remembr what th preche sys, IM an appeaser
August 19th, 2008 at 8:37 ammy laptop sucks
ok sully is going to be lunatic if I get supports
August 19th, 2008 at 8:42 amre-Giorgi, no probs, when you’ll open your big eyes, remember what the preacher says, IM an appeaser
August 19th, 2008 at 8:46 amfellas, what franchie is doing here is a show of total incompetence in presening strong points full of stupid ass replys … cause she cant think beyond what she read in a news paper for lack of strategic thought … Charlemagne is rolling in his grave
August 19th, 2008 at 9:17 am
August 19th, 2008 at 9:34 amGuys, Russia doesn’t want war. All it wants is just a small piece of peace.
August 19th, 2008 at 9:53 am“Guys, Russia doesn’t want war….”
Then why start one?
August 19th, 2008 at 10:01 amPardon me for belaboring the point, but your reparations analogy is indeed imprecise. As sully pointed out, slavery and Jim Crow are things of the past, which is something that can’t be said for French appeasement. Furthermore, not all things die with the passing of every generation - lessons go unlearned, mistakes are denied and left uncorrected, and parents pass their sins and/or failures on to their children.
Old habits die hard.
NATO in emergency session on crisis in Georgia
August 20, 2008
Russia showed no signs of leaving Georgia and threatened to crush resistance as NATO leaders held an emergency meeting overnight on the crisis.
The US, Britain and many eastern European states are pressing for a tough stance, but France, Germany and others are reluctant to alienate Moscow…
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24209080-5012748,00.html
“Reluctant to alienate Moscow”?
Giorgi & sully -
August 19th, 2008 at 10:24 amWhat’s an 11 letter word, beginning with the letter “A”, that is used to describe this “reluctance” to “alienate” Moscow?
I think, that’s because Russia was driven into a corner. It’s a Bush’s fault. Next time US should be not so hurried. Even rats become dangerous when they don’t have a way to escape.
August 19th, 2008 at 10:29 amA word with 11 letters. That sure is alot of letters.
but it can’t be good.
I’m not sure…
Look what other prizes it gets you….
“Russia has informed us they intend to visit Venezuela, that is, the intention that a Russian fleet should come to the Caribbean,” Chavez said on his weekly radio program.
“I told the president (Medvedev), ‘If you’re coming to the Caribbean, we’ll welcome you,’” Chavez said, adding that the Russian naval fleet would pay “a friendly and working” visit to Venezuela…
“We very much need them here,” Chavez said of the Russian weapons. “We’ve got the helicopters, the Sukoi fighters and we’re now considering buying some Russian submarines to patrol our territorial waters,” Chavez said.
—-economic times, India
August 19th, 2008 at 10:38 amMike, are you a anglo-saxon appeaser ?
cause I din’t find yur statment on diverse news that the Nato enforcement is only of Brits’ and Neocons’
August 19th, 2008 at 11:06 am“It’s a Bush’s fault.”
Bush made Russia attack Georgia?
August 19th, 2008 at 11:11 amGet the fuck outta here with that shit.
Seriously… bring something better if you can.
Fucking pussies.
If anything, we moved too late. As Anne Applebaum noted:
In any case, the time to deal with this conflict was two years ago or four years ago. That there was a security vacuum in the Caucasus; that this vacuum was dangerous; that war was likely; that Georgia, an eager ally of the United States, would not come out of it well; that a successful invasion of Georgia, a country with U.S. troops on its soil, would reflect badly on the West—all of that has been obvious for a long time. Cowardice, weakness, lack of ideas, and above all the distraction of other events prevented any deeper engagement. And now it may be too late.
August 19th, 2008 at 11:27 amMedvedev states Russian pull-out will be complete by August 21-22:
Russia hits back at Nato warning
Last updated at 18:07 GMT, Tuesday, 19 August 2008 19:07 UK
Russia has dismissed a warning by Nato that normal relations are impossible while its troops remain inside Georgia.
Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov accused Nato of bias and of trying to save the “criminal regime” in Tbilisi.
He insisted Moscow was not occupying Georgia and had no plans to annex the separatist region of South Ossetia.
Earlier, Nato demanded that Russia pull out its troops from Georgia as agreed in an EU-brokered ceasefire plan signed by both parties at the weekend.
Russian President Dmitri Medvedev told his French counterpart Nicolas Sarkozy in a phone call that the pull-out would be complete by 21-22 August, with the exception of some 500 troops, who will be installed in peacekeeping posts on either side of South Ossetia’s border.
Some Russian troops have been seen leaving Gori, the largest Georgian town close to the South Ossetia border.
But BBC correspondents on the ground say there are still Russian artillery positions in place. In addition, there are Russian checkpoints close to the Georgian capital, Tbilisi.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7571104.stm
August 19th, 2008 at 12:53 pm“..Russian pull-out will be complete by August 21-22..”
Yeah sure… when does it START ?
August 19th, 2008 at 1:02 pmSULLY:
My reply to your questions didn’t post last night, so I’m testing the waters with this one-liner to see if it ends up in the spaminator, too.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:05 pmGIORGI:
You wrote: “the [Georgian] population is pro-US, always was, thats why i think french and germans act like it, the want some love too, they actually complained about it in 2004 telling our president why is he spending so much time with americans, and he answered that the US is doing more than all of europe put together….”
That’s not something you’ll read in our MSM. Thanks, again, Giorgi, for sharing the truth.
When Israel was being bombarded by scud missiles from Iraq, I used to telephone friends in Jerusalem to find out the truth. The left-leaning U.S. media was downplaying the danger.
I’ve lived in Scandinavia and can tell you their news coverage of the U.S. was always negative. They used to air documentaries of the mistakes the U.S. military made during WWII. They didn’t credit the U.S. for saving their butts at all.
The average American is really ignorant about Europe unless they’ve spent some time there. And the average European doesn’t have a clue about the U.S. They think they do, but they’re regurgitating what their very slanted media says. You’ve lived in the U.S. and so you’ve seen a balance.
I never found a European who had traveled to the U.S. who didn’t enjoy it. (I’m excluding New York and Los Angeles because they’re aberrations. I’ll get heat over this one.) Europeans need to stop spending their vacations in the Canary Islands and Majorca and visit the U.S.
This is not publicized, but foreign exchange students to the U.S. sometimes go into deep depressions after returning to their home countries. This happened to a French student I knew. His family was distraught and consultations with the family priest didn’t help.
Dominique was wasting away for the United States. He missed our very healthy freedoms and the warmth of his U.S. friends. We are very demonstrative when we like someone.
Thanks again, Girogi, for your input. I haven’t said this before, but today I’m a Georgian.
August 19th, 2008 at 1:36 pmare talking about a-word ending with an “n” …noooo..there could be a better way i’m sure
just push them to the northern end of the continent… russians had a popular slogan since Stalins’ death - Georgia without Georgians! i’ll say time has come for - Caucasus without Russia!
When i lived in NYC I had found very rare and interesting Russian historical books about caucasus (im sure they are well hidden in russia, written in 1800s) well, the russian general who was conquering the northern slopes of Caucasus had noted that the Caucasus represents a huge fortress with a garrison of half a million warriors…we (russians) have to keep this land as a permanent hotspot as the resistance here is always tough and it presents us(russians) with a huge opportunity to continiusly train and hone the fighting skills of our army…in past 12-14 years russians were practicing a war with chechens, then after reaching certain results they wanted to fight something more organized, like western-trained georgian army, just to see how will the fighting skills of the russian soldiers would prove themselfs…the result is clear, as far as the ground warfare goes - its a complete mess, and if not for the russias air supperiority the victory over georgia would be impossible (this is exact quote from the russian news paper Nezavisemaya Gazeta (www.ng.ru), the military section) … guys the verdict has been reached - russian ground forces are worthless, even their famed airborne troops were more or less capable, sort of on par with our regular georgian soldiers and we had about 1500 special forces of all kinds there - army, police and anti-terror units …here are some vids, like a police version of “be all you can be” georgian style :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUNjf7kvKqQ&feature=related
———–
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWqGZCGoNcM
its sad that some of those boys are no longer with us…
i have not a doubt in my mind that after several years russians will engenier another conflict in caucasus, create a second chechnya. ingushetia and kabardino-balkaria autonomus republics are the prime candidates…as i said, they need training..and a place where the generals add another star and lieutenants become colonels and some politicians in moscow will get kick-backs from the military procurement and materiel “losses” during the conflict, just like they did it in chechnya, selling them the weapons to fight them the next day, but blame georgia turkey and even the West for supplying the weapons and helping “terrorists” - personaly i see chechens as people who have been forced to extremes - about 200,000+ of them got killed in last 12 years of conflict, anybody in those types of situations will loose his human side and will become an animal. and animals are easier to control than humans…and thats what they are trying to bring on georgians.
August 19th, 2008 at 2:52 pmSULLY:
My letter still hasn’t posted since last night so I’m going to recreate it and send it in two parts to try to fool the spaminator!
Cops talk about a “pattern and practice” when defining died-in-the-wool criminals. Russia has a pattern and practice of lying. I have a folder full of newspaper articles from the 1990s that expose Russia’s lies while it was pretending to be a friend to the West.
Russia’s propaganda machine is in full-swing again, and its not just recently. Its young people may become as brainwashed as those during Nikita Khrushchev’s era. In the 1960s, “the young people had no idea what happened in Stalin’s time, no notion of the extent of the repressions.” (From “Khrushchev On Khrushchev” by Nikita’s son, Sergei, who is a naturalized U.S. citizen.)
It’s not a coincidence that Medvedev and Ahmadinejad are both bragging about their military capabilities for entering into sustained war. In 1995, Russia was planning to build a nuclear reactor in Iran. And during Pres. Clinton’s second term, it was revealed that Russia had secretly used billions of dollars of aid money to build up its submarine force.
What else has Russia built up that the West isn’t reporting?
August 19th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
billie (Today I’m a Georgian)
August 19th, 2008 at 3:04 pmi agree with you, the more people visit and live in united states, or any other country for that matter, the better!
Sully:
In the early 1990s, a Russian communications ship berthed at a U.S. port. My spouse and I hosted a young Russian sailor for the day. He was pathetically thin, nothing but skin and bones. Just like his comrades.
Russian soldiers today are vey well-fed by comparison.
We took Andre home and fed him pizza, which he’d requested. We also took him to the mall. He was in full Russian uniform and very stern looking as we walked quickly past the shops. He stopped people in their tracks.
Driving Andre back to his ship, he saw a car with Alaskan license plates in front of us and blurted out: “That’s our country!”
This was during the cessation of the Cold War. By the way, if you really want to know what’s going on in a country, politically and otherwise, ask a Christian missionary. There’s more than one reason dictators and Communists don’t like missionaries. The truth gets out, at least to the Christian community.
August 19th, 2008 at 3:09 pmbillie -
I think you’ll like this article:
Georgians hope U.S. will help defend way of life
By Jeffrey Stinson, USA TODAY
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-08-18-georgia_N.htm
Let’s keep this in mind as we move forward, folks - the Georgian people are going to need a lot more than military assistance in the weeks and months ahead:
“I love Americans,” says Tamara Tabatadze, 42, who teaches English and Russian.
She fled the devastated town of Gori in central Georgia on foot with her two sons as the Russians moved into that city last week. “I defend Americans. They are the best people I have ever known,” she says.
She’s now living in a tent provided by a French aid agency at a makeshift camp at an abandoned Soviet military base just off George W. Bush Street.
She’s wearing clothes donated by Tbilisi residents. She and about 140 other displaced people get running water from an outside trough. There are portable toilets but little else. None have cars or money to get the few miles into the city.
August 19th, 2008 at 3:11 pmLieberman, Graham Head to Georgia in Biden’s Wake
By Adam Graham-Silverman
CQ Staff
Aug. 19, 2008 – 5:02 p.m.
Republican presidential candidate John McCain may not be able to travel to Georgia just now, but two of his surrogates headed off today to do some intelligence gathering of their own on the Russian invasion.
Sens. Joseph I. Lieberman , I-Conn., and Lindsey Graham , R-S.C., both closely involved in the Arizona’s senator’s campaign, are traveling to Poland and the Ukraine as well to gauge reaction.
“We are going to Tbilisi, Warsaw and Kiev to meet with the leaders of these important American allies and to discuss the Russian invasion of Georgia,” Lieberman said. “This is a moment in history when it is vital for the world’s democracies to stand in solidarity.”
http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=news-000002939217
When Congress gets back next month, it will consider a proposal to extend Georgia $1 billion in emergency aid. The White House likewise stated that emergency assistance to Georgia would amount to “a substantial commitment” from the U.S. for humanitarian, reconstruction and military aid..
August 19th, 2008 at 3:30 pmHere’s to you, your countrymen and your homeland
The days of Russian revanchism in Georgia are coming to an end.
August 19th, 2008 at 4:53 pmBillie:
Great story. Thanks for sharing it.
“By the way, if you really want to know what’s going on in a country, politically and otherwise, ask a Christian missionary….”
True. My middle daughter is doing Christian missionary work now.
August 19th, 2008 at 5:31 pmLike Penn and Teller said: Money (ie capitalism) can bring about world peace.
August 19th, 2008 at 6:33 pmI am revolted by the spinelessness of all our leaders and yet not surprised in the least. The barbarians are at the gates and our side can’t get the gates open for them fast enough. God save the Republic!
August 19th, 2008 at 11:19 pmMike in VA:
Wow! Thanks for the link to that USA Today article. I’m going to request that the staff consider posting it. (I’ve posted it again below.)
I’ve written this before, but you’ll be interested to know that the average Iranian was very pro-American before Khomeini took over in January 1979. The average Iranian was also pro-French but they weren’t crazy about the Brits or the Germans at all. (I used to live there.)
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-08-18-georgia_N.htm
August 20th, 2008 at 1:19 amSully:
Thanks for the reply. All the best to your daughter’s missionary activities.
When I lived in Europe, anti-Americanism was at an all-time high. Pres. Nixon was called “Hitler” on the front pages of many publications. (Sound similar to today’s slurs against Bush?)
Most Europeans believe Nixon started the Vietnam war. I’m sure your daughter’s aware of this falsehood. It’s a wonderful thing to correct an enlightened European by saying, no, it was Pres. Johnson, a Democrat, who started the Vietnam war. (Pres. Kennedy greatly increased the number of military “advisors” in Nam.)
That one correction sometimes opens the door to exposing other falsehoods about the U.S. :o) :o) :o) :o)
August 20th, 2008 at 1:44 amI recommand you to read the “Bucharest Nato Manifest”, especilly the paragraph N°30
what is the point ?
our AFGANISTAN war needs the russian accommodations
then again, what is the most important for us ?
fight against Russia or fight against the islamists ?
don’t make a tempest in a cup of tea, evident choices have been made, that’s also where 10 of our brave soldiers die for
August 20th, 2008 at 4:44 amok, I forgot to add the link :
http://www.nato.int/docu/pr/2008/p08-049e.html
August 20th, 2008 at 4:54 am“..AFGANISTAN war needs the russian accommodations”
lmao…
“We also welcome our [NATO-Russian] cooperation on military interoperability, theatre missile defence, search and rescue at sea, and civil emergency planning.”
Thanks… I just added that to my ‘things I don’t give a fuck about’ logbook.
It’s clear that France has added Georgia to their own.
August 20th, 2008 at 5:40 am“Still, State Department officials were troubled last year by Saakashvili’s willingness to send police against unarmed protesters and an opposition TV station and to rule, for a time, under a state of emergency. In recent months, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and other officials are said to have warned Saakashvili against taking any military moves that could provoke Moscow, especially a thrust into South Ossetia.”
Actually, that was the Nato worry
explain why your military heads don’t voice for an intervention against Russia… bravo Condi, your good comedian LMAO
France is just following the orders
August 20th, 2008 at 5:55 amsully, keep on focusing on un-relative morals, of which I don’t give a fuck, neiher your state department
August 20th, 2008 at 6:07 amNot that it’s worth reading, but here’s the text of the lame-assed statement NATO released following their meeting on how best to appease Putin’s mafia yesterday:
NATO’s foreign ministers reiterate their support for Georgia
http://www.nato.int/docu/update/2008/08-august/e0819a.html
It’s not in the article, but NATO made it clear in no uncertain cowardly terms that any assistance from the alliance would be non-military in nature, i.e., humanitarian assistance and civilian reconstruction projects only. So far, the U.S. is the only country that has explicitly stated that it will provide military assistance to the Georgians following the cessation of hostilities.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:44 amWOW!!
Y’know… if you’d just add…
“I’m franchie and I approved this message.”
..at the bottom of your posts… you could run for political office as a Dhimmicrat in this country.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:07 amI cant believe that you try to find the “positive” parts in Nato LMAO
uh, you forget that they are only emergency propositions
for the next adhesion, it will be discussed next december
in the eventuality of a positive decision, it’ll take a few more months of discussions to define the project, and a few more years to realise it
“I’m franchie and I approved this message.”
and I am not running for your Dh office, sully suffice
August 20th, 2008 at 10:53 amIt was your link franchie.
And your continued and worthless attempts to treat Georgia as some odd form of ‘collateral damage’ to Afghanistan really are sickening. And bringing the 10 dead French patriots into your ‘argument’ to attempt to justify it morally is even worse.
You’re a sick person franchie.
August 20th, 2008 at 11:50 amof course, another lesson of that smart part of yours LMAO
you got plenty of reserve I see,
naturally I realised it was the same link, in the “actualities”
and don’t try to twist the sense of my message, “vade retro satan”
August 20th, 2008 at 12:20 pmThe sense of your message–of ALL your messages–seems to be that “France is great, the US is the great…SATAN!” If you weren’t so incredibly ignorant, franchie, it would be entertaining watching you try to tap dance around your broken logic and dumbass remarks.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:37 pmdo you understand english ?
sully does, an he can even twists it in all possible forms
you can’t even catch that
August 20th, 2008 at 12:45 pm“do you understand english ?
sully does, an he can even twists it in all possible forms
you can’t even catch that”
i seem to have trouble understanding the great truths behind this statement … maybe its a french version, or an attempt at reverse-psychology in order to defend ones ignorance and lack of any logic behind a single sentence by presenting an argument for sake of an argument full of infamous french snobbism
August 20th, 2008 at 1:34 pmTwo words:
Rosetta Stone.
August 20th, 2008 at 1:53 pmgiorgi, I dont expect that you would empathy and understand the weird game that sully keeps on doing with me since fast a year, seems he scored once more
though thank you to let me know the bottom of your heart,
guess, I had already an idea
August 20th, 2008 at 2:14 pmtitic, yeah, but you aren’t Champollion, too hard for a FF member
August 20th, 2008 at 2:20 pmfranchie, oh franchie,
your animus is showing.
You’re bellicose and quarrelsome
without any reason.
At night you lie awake
seeking new forms of torture:
word games and idioms
that will make you sound smarter.
Hit us with your best shot
and do it at your leisure,
you’re our little cabbage now
but soon you’ll be…..
Does anyone have the last line?
August 20th, 2008 at 3:23 pmfrancie…
I get back from a short vacation and see this thread still thriving?! I really feel the need to add my 2 or 3 cents, depends on how many beers it takes for me to finish…
First, I have to compliment you on your endurance…you are the energizer bunny of bullshit. However, this word salad that you comment in (just a bunch of words tossed together) is extremely difficult to understand. Granted, I’m just a dumb ole redneck from the south, so I may not know an educated argument from, well, yours.
Second, it seems that you feel it’s important to throw in some of your native tongue into most of your comments. Now, I really don’t know if you feel it makes yourself sound more intelligent, better than us, or maybe you just do it out of habit…so maybe you won’t mind if I use some of my favorite expressions, in my native tongue of course.
Understanding exactly what you’re saying is as hard as trying to steer a herd of cats.
Lastly franchie, and I mean this sincerely…you couldn’t pour rain out of a boot with a hole in the toe and directions on the heel.
August 20th, 2008 at 3:30 pmyou are the energizer bunny of bullshit.
I like that image, though I got a good feeder on my circuit
I’m just a dumb ole redneck from the south, so I may not know an educated argument from, well, yours
No, you are not, you are an authentic gentleman, I haven’t seen many in the past week
I didn’t mean looking more intelligent, it’s that that my biquering partner pushed it in that way
August 20th, 2008 at 4:07 pmbillie, see ya I inspired you
August 20th, 2008 at 4:12 pmhe, Im not too negative then
well, I usely don’t go to bed early, plus there is the siesta
Like I mentioned earlier, this isn’t a thread anymore, this is: Pat’s Café Américain
August 20th, 2008 at 5:14 pm“and don’t try to twist the sense of my message”
It was twisted when it got here.
Pretty typical Lib fare from franchie of the same type over on DailyKos, Democratic Underground and mybarackobama.
If they thought of it and were able to type it, then by gosh it must be true. Because they’re brilliant and there it is in black and white.
August 20th, 2008 at 6:18 pmNever a thought that Socialism/Communism is a dead end because it consistently fails.
Same with moral relativity.
Same with appeasement of people that want to kill you.
On and on and on.
If the facts don’t fit, make new facts.
Wellll…in that case, I’ll have a steak, rare, fries instead of a baked potato (please don’t read into that, franchie), a salad with ranch and a 22 oz wheat ale.
August 20th, 2008 at 6:19 pmTotten has a new report from Georgia(he headed there as soon as the shit hit the fan):
http://www.michaeltotten.com/
I’d recommend checking in with him often because he tends to post new stuff at irregular intervals when he is in the field.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:03 pmMore good reporting from around the blogosphere:
http://www.luoamerican.com/baldilocks/2008/08/to-russia-with.html
Seems the Georgians haven’t lost their sense of Irony…..
August 20th, 2008 at 9:06 pm“To the Russian embassy in Tbilisi they brought old refrigerators, toilets, rolls of toilet paper, irons, bottles of vodka,….”
SEE!! Told you that Ukraine could defend itself by lining the border with cases of vodka!!!
August 20th, 2008 at 9:54 pmDuring the Cold War, we said we weren’t worried about a Russian invasion…. they’d land and buy McDonalds franchises or convenience/liquor stores… the PAKI’S beat ‘em to it though.
TBinSTBL:
Hahahahaha. I pulled up the baldilocks link. What a riot. So the Russian looters took forks and spoons and toilet paper, etc. God bless the Georgian people for carrying on and showing the irony of the situation.
Oh! I read Mikhail Gorbachev’s op-ed in the New York Times. I didn’t realize at first that it had been written by him, and I was thinking that it sounded like something straight out of Pravda! Little did I know how right I was.
Gorbachev lied all the way through. He said — get this — that Russia had wanted a cease-fire all along but Georgia’s president had consistently refused.
August 20th, 2008 at 11:05 pmGiorgi:
I’ve been wondering about your national anthem. Would you feel comfortable sharing some of the lyrics (in English)?
Also, I heard that the Georgian language is one of the oldest in the world.
August 20th, 2008 at 11:27 pmle brave paysan,
you are one of my last discoveries here, and I don’t regret it
though, might be of short life, Im not eternally wanting to handle the same ol debates, that go nowhere, with the same contradictors, especially that stubborn and biased
sully, with his obsessions of socialism & tutti quanti of evil that France is supposed to be
Also to Giorgi, I wonder why, as a French, I should accept his country in our EU community, seems that she hasn’t the requierred criteriums : he dislikes us as much as URSS, and if it is true that his views are the real representation of his contry’s, then I’ll make sure if I can empech it with my vote, I’ll do it
to thoses, that find me funny,
, I had my times of untertainment too.
especially I also thank the soldiers that help to make that world a bit sane, I went on that site, because of John Cunningham, that I knew from somewhere else, that I found funny, interesting, kind
to sully, you already lost, your morals (?) are from 2 cenuries ago ; I’ll put you in my mental zoo
August 20th, 2008 at 11:27 pmwhy didn’t you edit the post where I said that I was aware of being the animator of the “café”, that I should be rewarded with a percentage … Mr Dollard of pallywood ?
August 20th, 2008 at 11:58 pmwe dont need your EU, we need NATO, or better yet - a direct US-Georgia mutual defense agreement. and what r u going to impeach, a country?for what? r u fucking stupid or just act like it. i dont have a general anti-french sentiments, its just YOU make THEM look bad if your views are shared with all of the french, but fortunately i know this is not true. its just your political love affairs with russians i dont like…i actually have couple of friends from france i met in the US, they are straight up people, and you know they said something like “fuck the russians” as well, contrary to your views….franchie learn how to read and comprehend what is been said by others. if you say something stupid, and you realize that, just laugh at yourself instead of defending it with a stupid argument. too much fucking pride
August 21st, 2008 at 12:46 amfranchie:
I noticed you’ve been calling Giorgi “the brave peasant” (le brave paysan).
You’re a provocateur. And you have an agenda. You began attacking Giorgi soon after he began posting comments on this site. I’m convinced that you are pro-Russia and pro-Pravda (meaning, pro-Communist). That’s probably where you spend the rest of your time when you’re not on this blog.
Like Giorgi, I have French friends I like very much. We speak openly and honestly. They’re not disengenuous like you.
Either tell us what your true intentions are or find another blog where they’ll accept your bullshit. Grow up. By the way, that’s the end of the poem.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:05 amGiorgi, I never said that I like Russia as a political entity, but one can’t dislike all the people from there, because the former URSS republics said so.
Many russian artists, writers, scentists, sportmen… are great and or genius
Plus, I know St Petersburg, which is one of the most beautiful towns in the world
me, seen as stupid by your standards, I don’t mind, too fuckin one side viewed !!!
“Passer pour un idiot aux yeux d’un imbécile est une volupté de fin gourmet” Georges Courteline (Billie
dico 
)
see you in a couple of years, how your doing with your Bush avenue
August 21st, 2008 at 2:23 amoh, Giorgi, I forgot to add that the russian girls are the most beautiful in the world
August 21st, 2008 at 2:31 am“especially that stubborn and biased
sully, with his obsessions of socialism & tutti quanti of evil that France is supposed to be”
Yeah. You caught me. I am stubbornly biased against Socialism and France. More so Socialists and the French though.
France is a lovely place. Till you go there. It has that delightful combination of arrogance and stupid that you just can’t find in many other places. And clearly they believe it fine enough to export.
Hmmm… same as Socialism I suppose.
“to sully, you already lost, your morals (?) are from 2 cenuries ago…”
Well actually ‘my’ morals are MUCH older than that.
And unlike you, they are the same morals I had yesterday.
“I’ll put you in my mental zoo”
I KNEW you had one of those. You should try spending less time in the primate section. (You’ve picked up that nasty habit of throwing feces.)
August 21st, 2008 at 4:09 amK?
you forget that YOU are a PRIMATE, that plays with his feces, and was awaiting that I throw you bananas ; your morals don’t help, even if they date from Matusalem
August 21st, 2008 at 4:21 amyour a fuckin animal
franchie…Huh??
Please clarify, who is the brave farmer? I thought it may be (mis)directed at me, but, again, it’s difficult to tell and I definitely don’t like t ass-ume anything. If so, please let me assure you that the stubbornness you mention is actually conviction, and I’ll give you the bias. I am extremely biased. I’ve watched the moralistic fiber of this country go to shit over the past few decades and am no longer willing to be a quiet passenger in the liberalistic bus to hell. I served proudly in our military, not for anything more than the desire to protect and defend the rights Americans are born with.
I hold people, everyone, accountable for their actions, words, and policies. I’m no longer willing to be a member of the silent majority in America and will use my voice, or my stubborn, biased debate, to reach anyone that is willing to read. Whether one agrees with me, thats up to them, but I will have my say, my 2 cents. I’m guessing you probably feel the same way…you know you’re not going to change my mind, or anyone elses on this site. Everyone has a unique viewpoint, whether they are right or wrong…in my view, there are a lot of wrong ones out there, but I’m stubborn and biased.
And, just for future reference, I’m of the “high tech redneck” type…
August 21st, 2008 at 4:53 amPlease clarify, who is the brave farmer? I thought it may be (mis)directed at me, but, again, it’s difficult to tell and I definitely don’t like t ass-ume anything. If so, please let me assure you that the stubbornness you mention is actually conviction, and I’ll give you the bias. I am extremely biased. I’ve watched the moralistic fiber of this country go to shit over the past few decades and am no longer willing to be a quiet passenger in the liberalistic bus to hell. I served proudly in our military, not for anything more than the desire to protect and defend the rights Americans are born with.
I hold people, everyone, accountable for their actions, words, and policies. I’m no longer willing to be a member of the silent majority in America and will use my voice, or my stubborn, biased debate, to reach anyone that is willing to read. Whether one agrees with me, thats up to them, but I will have my say, my 2 cents. I’m guessing you probably feel the same way…you know you’re not going to change my mind, or anyone elses on this site. Everyone has a unique viewpoint, whether they are right or wrong…in my view, there are a lot of wrong ones out there, but I’m stubborn and biased.
And, just for future reference, I’m of the “high tech redneck” type…
August 21st, 2008 at 5:59 amCan’t follow all that stuff!
August 21st, 2008 at 6:05 amBut looking at the pictures, the one thing Shaskavilli should
have done, before anything else, would be to get some special
forces into that tunnel that links Russia to Georgia, and brought down
the mountain.
Hundreds of Russian tanks would still be sitting in Russia.
He screwed up.
“oh, Giorgi, I forgot to add that the russian girls are the most beautiful in the world” - yea i know, even more beautiful than french ones, they know what a razor is and how to use it, and they dont complain and go straight to business, i love russian women!
August 21st, 2008 at 6:26 amC-SPAN covered an 8/13 panel discussion at the American Enterprise Institute. The panel included Lt. Col. Ralph Peters, Fred Kagan and Lt. Col. Bob Hamilton who, up until 8/3, was the Pentagon’s Defense Cooperation Officer in Tbilisi. Interesting stuff and available now in the C-SPAN archives.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:55 amThey identified Abkhazia as Russia’s main goal. 9000 troops and 350 armored vehicles into Abkhazia in a day.
Kagan also said ‘the Russians had gotten tired of watching American equipment destroy Russian equipment over the years and wanted to destroy some American stuff.’
guys, the orders were to take that fucking tunnel down…we had the means to do it, but then russians said that they would bomb the crap out of the capital … our special forces were within 20 km of that tunnel as it was very well guarded by russians given its strategic importance… and many things happend after that that i dont understand, some of whitch are why they were not ordered to set up a cascade of ambushes along the road ??instead they were ordered to retreat ??? i got many questions to why certain decisions were made instead of alternatives…like instead of leaving the coast guard patrol boats and missile boats in Poti for russians, they could have relocated them into turkish territorial waters, im sure turkey would have accepted that…lot of things will surface in coming months and i think some heads will roll too
August 21st, 2008 at 7:34 am“instead they were ordered to retreat ??? ”
To defend the Capital?
Do you really believe you had a chance against Russia?
August 21st, 2008 at 7:46 amwell the russians were coming in anyways, at least make it hard for them, 5-6 men tams, with RPGs and remote controlled mines, hit and run, and then retreat..yes, mainly to defend the capital..the rest of the army that is not holdng the defensive positions have returned home, changed their clothing to civilian, destroyed their military IDs and hid the weapons…i dont have an illusion of wining against russian forces…although we had a tactical advantage of fighting on our turf, but this would have been an guerrilla warfare tactic than a combined arms with battalions and brigades…but then, our civilians are sitting hostages, all they have to do is fire a salvo of SCUDs and Tochka-U missiles at Tbilisi to prove their point, some russian general said that the munitions used in georgia were scheduled to be utilized anyways so it was cheaper to use them in combat, and SCUD isnt a new missile…
August 21st, 2008 at 8:03 am“me, seen as stupid by your standards, I don’t mind, too fuckin one side viewed !!!”
and you’re not one sided at all, no sir!
August 21st, 2008 at 8:09 amGeorgi:
August 21st, 2008 at 8:48 amYes they were coming in anyway. They provoked an ‘incident’ and brought their 58th Army over the mountains in a day. Plus what has happened in Abkhazia. This was planned far in advance.
I admire your country for standing up to them the way it has… this isn’t over… keep your head down.
ATTENTION FRANCHIE:
Listen up, Franchie. What do you think gives you the right to have a forum where you can take out all of your frustrations on other posters here any old time you feel like it?
You sit around all day long living on this website looking for people to argue with, baiting people and drawing them in to your arguments which are merely a cover for the frustrations in your life that we all experience and deal with in various ways.
My advice to you is to start being nicer. Stop arguing so much or you will find that your comments don’t even appear on these forums. Your contribution financially to the site is very much appreciated, but it does not buy you the right to stir up shit and get into fights with every other person who comments on a thread you are watching.
I have never said anything before because I either was too busy or didn’t give a shit. But everyone is a little tired of the Troll.
Sometimes you have very nice things to say, and given the on again off again relationship America has been having with France, Sarko is great, you would do your country a great service by representing the French in a positive light here.
PS: My ancestors are from Navarre which is on your southern border with Spain, so I suspect somewhere back down the Bash line there have been some good times in France.
August 21st, 2008 at 9:09 am“Russian peacekeepers would continue to occupy Georgia.” (Guardian)
I sure hope these aren’t the mercenaries from Chechnya.
“French, British and US officials are drafting a UN security council resolution in New York stiffening the terms of a Russian pullout, and agreement was reached to deploy the first western monitors in Georgia.” (Guardian)
It’s nice to see the three countries working together. Vive le France, Hail Brittania, and God bless the U.S.A.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:31 pmBash thank you, Man, its’been a bit hard time I guess these past days and week, every one got high with the evemements, Im not home, Im going to see my elder son who just came back from your home, where he spent 3 weeks with his wife
wandering in your beautiful country. I don’t expect him tell me bad things about the Americans.
Now, I got on my nerves because of what certain persons say about us, that are totally BS (guess who)
I went tonight in a Chilian restaurant, meet there people
that were Argentinians, Italians, germans… we all spoke
together, no matter the countries policies, we were people
who talk about their life, where we are going…
BTW, the chilian rosé is OK, I can’t anwser to each comment,
my USB key is limited
so, I don’t want to undermine anyone,
sorry angry redneck, you never was in the bad frame
NEXT SARCASTIC WORDS TYPED BY FRANCHIE
EDITED OUT BY LFTBHNDAGN BECAUSE FRANCHIE HASN’T LEARNED HER LESSON
August 21st, 2008 at 2:43 pmI suspect among the first things we’ll provide Georgia after things stabilize is a full-up air defense network, from CRAM to Patriots, and everything in between.
Of course, no matter how good it is, if the Russians launch enough missiles some will get through. But if we have aircraft, manned and unmanned, taking out all the launchers they can find, that might even things out a bit.
I’m certain that future training and equipping of the Georgian military will focus more on conventional warfare. Motivated, well trained and equipped soldiers holding easily defended terrain are almost impossible to dislodge, especially if they have air superiority.
From the little I can gather about the actual fighting, one of the problems for the Georgians was that the Russians had absolute artillery superiority. Putin’s Air Force underperformed, but the arty made up for its inaccuracy with numbers. Although that could be said about every other part of their invasion.
Counterbattery radar and MLRS would make short work of their tubes, though.
August 21st, 2008 at 4:15 pm[[The deputy chief of the general staff of the Russian army, Colonel-General Anatoly Nogovitsyn, told reporters: “The pullback has started at such a pace that by the end of August 22 all the forces of the Russian Federation will be behind the line of our zone of responsibility.”]]
Russia’s humiliating retreat begins. Poor showing by their military.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:20 pmI hope once the Russian retreat is complete to Georgians arm themselves to the fucking teeth so that another attempted Russian conquest will be even more humiliating for Pooty. Then they need to send commandos into Russia to exact a painful price on the Russian military.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:35 pmRVN68MIKE,
“We just got to have the balls” We do. Our leaders do not.
August 21st, 2008 at 7:02 pminvite georgia into the missile shield
August 21st, 2008 at 9:26 pmA worthwhile question: Where are the human shield protestors in Georgia that regularly make their presence known in Israel?
“…Where are the ‘International Solidarity Movement’ protesters who like to attack Israeli troops and police and to serve as ‘human shields’ to protect the Palestinian ‘victims’ of Israeli self-defense? Why are they not rushing to Ossetia and Georgia to stand up to the Russian troops, throwing rocks at them and singing Kun-Ba-Ya?”
“Where are the leftist human shields blocking the path of Russian military vehicles the same way they block Israeli Defense Forces operations? Are they afraid they will not be served the same nice gourmet lattes they get when Israeli forces apprehend them for hooliganism in the West Bank?”
“Why are leftists not organizing ships to break the Russian blockade of the Georgia coast the same way they are trying to provide sea-borne aid to the Hamas in Gaza? Where are the Rachel Corries and why are they not challenging Russian bulldozer crews? Why are the Anarchists against the Wall not hopping planes to Tbilisi to challenge Russian construction crews erecting walls in Abkhazia and Ossetia? Why are the Israeli leftist professors not holding pro-Ossetian poetry readings and solidarity rallies in Tbilisi?”
(Front Page News, Steven Plaut, August 21, 2008)
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=DC49AA2C-FE1D-4FFB-BB15-E61BB0110F76
August 21st, 2008 at 10:11 pm
ticticboom (Will Kill For Oil)
israel also said somehting about helping with air defences…plus the Navy is coming, I wonder what type/class of ships will be in a convoy.
August 21st, 2008 at 10:42 pmas far i heard, it was the air-supperiority of russians that put in the final touch - cluster bombs …. and our artlilery is actually one of the best in the region, in terms of the personnell rather than howizers, there is a Tbilisi Artilery School - one of the best ones that existed during the soviet times and we maintained its level. I have asked many people who have came back from fighting adn they’ve said that our artilery worked magically. we also have(or had) the arty detection radars to be honest, so whenever russians opened fire, if they were wthin the range they were bombarded. russian military was complaining about that fact that.
the visit of senators was very reasuring, they’ve said air defences and anti-tank missiles
I don’t know where to post this, so chew me out if you need to. A young Christian convert was burned alive in Saudi Arabia by her father. He’s a member of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Against Vice (Muttawa).
It would be nice if we also had a thread relating to news about Islam.
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2008/08/christian-convert-burned-alive-in-saudi.html
August 21st, 2008 at 10:56 pmPat, Bash, drillanwr, and lftbhndagn:
The UK’s first Sharia-compliant prepaid MasterCard was launched on August 12, 2008. It charges no interest and receives no credit.
http://europenews.dk/en/node/13039
The UK’s Sharia Gold Card Scam
“Not only does the money donated by the company (10%) to “charities” entail the risk that it will flow to Islamists as well as terrorism, it also encourages the West to be more compliant to the implementation of the rest of Sharia as well. Frog in the pot on slow boil, as I see it. But here is another reason why the West and Muslims themselves should avoid the whole deal, it’s a BIG RIP OFF.”
http://tundratabloid.blogspot.com/
August 21st, 2008 at 11:09 pmGiorgi:
Thanks for keeping us informed. We’re learning things that our media either doesn’t know about or isn’t sharing. I’m excited about Israel helping you.
August 21st, 2008 at 11:18 pm“…Where are the ‘International Solidarity Movement’ protesters…. Why are they not rushing to Ossetia and Georgia to stand up to the Russian troops, throwing rocks at them and singing Kun-Ba-Ya?”
Umm… Just a guess… cuz they’ll get shot?
August 22nd, 2008 at 3:27 amFrom what I’ve heard, the guided missile destroyer USS McFaul (DDG 74) and the US Coast Guard cutter Dallas (WHEC 716) are underway and the USS Mount Whitney (LCC 20) is on stand-by.
USS McFaul
http://www.navysite.de/dd/ddg74.htm
USCGC Dallas
http://www.uscg.mil/lantarea/cgcDallas/
USS Mount Whitney
August 22nd, 2008 at 9:18 amhttp://www.navysite.de/ships/lcc20.htm
This just in: The USS Mount Whitney (which is the flagship of the US Sixth Fleet) has been given orders to sail to Georgia. This is a good move on many levels.
August 22nd, 2008 at 9:32 amAccording to an update in this Freeper thread they are headed to Poti…… “Pucker Factor” elevated!
August 22nd, 2008 at 1:28 pmhttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2066300/posts
BTW, with the USS McFaul there, Russian “air superiority” just ceased to exist. Since the MTW is the flag ship of the Sixth Fleet and the top CCC ship afloat, I expect that the McFaul is preceding it to provide that umbrella.
August 22nd, 2008 at 1:31 pmHere is the real deal,
embedded Russian photographer war pictures from the ground out of Georgia
http://www.navoine.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?p=551
August 22nd, 2008 at 1:41 pmTwo things:
1. “The US currently gives Russia close to $1 billion a year in aid, mostly to help secure Russia’s nuclear weapons and materials.”
2. “LONDON- Russia is considering arming its Baltic fleet with nuclear warheads for the first time since the cold war, warned senior military sources late August 17.”
http://fredfryinternational.blogspot.com/2008/08/why-its-ok-to-stop-paying-1-billion.html
August 22nd, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Mike Swann
August 22nd, 2008 at 5:54 pmDifficult to view, but such a reality for the people of Georgia…
Mike Swann
August 22nd, 2008 at 6:17 pmThanks for the link.
if you want to know the true news about georgia go to radio free europe/radio free liberty this is a unbiased news which was setup by congress so we as americans could tell people over there stuff. we needed a voice over there. Our media is too busy with elections and they will not report anything that will help obama. they did not even report the itinary the president gave on what he did for georgia on july 8th which he gave them. radio free europe said it was hard to get communication to people for awhile because of what russsia did. A general today on c-span was talking about georgia and he said there were cyberacts over there and communication was bad. We have USAID the president setup and congress did and on Aug 8th and aug 9th they sent stuff to the embassy we have in tiblisi. We have and ambassodor over there. The media has not been reporting much news which when the president was over in china the media was with him and when he landed he was informed of the sitituation in georgia and he had brougt his team with him including the national securtiy person and they called all over to find out what happen and the world leaders were at the olympics and the presdient order aid, cots and stuff to georgia embassy. this is the reason the usaid account was setup. we were training georgias militaary. the proof the president helped is on the white house website go to current news and click on aug 13th and the article of the itinary is called setting the record straight on what the president did for georgia. the president also did press conference over there. there was also and american citizzen murdered in china so he dealt with that also. we have an embassy in china also so he was checking on that. some news article on the net got the facts wrong about what was done and insults went flying before they knew the facts. if democrats hadn;t caused trouble for seven and half years calling the president every name in the book and saying our troops tortured our credibility would be better. many in europe and around the world think the military and the president our murders and want to try them for war crimes and the democrats are even having hearings on them. the democrats have divided this country because they were angry about the election of 2000 and decided to destroy everything this president did. we are also in an election year and not speaking with one voice and putin knows this. if this country could be united things would be better. remember we have a democraic congress and they would not let the president go to war or send military equipment because they hate war and this country sometimes i think. the words they accused people of the rest of the world hears that and they think is true. russia is mad at us. when putin first came to power as the leader he was not to bad but fox news said after the chechen war in russia when those students were killed he decided to use the chechen for gaining power. they are jihad type peeople just like the enemy in the middle east that killed our people over hear. putin also stole money when he was the leader of russia and they also get petrodollars and that is why we need to drill hear at home. i should tell you they have also sent 3 navy ships to the persian gulf near kuwait and iran. the pentagon found out russia was working with iran and that is when our working with them became strained and russia is on the un council and has veto power. the relationship with russia has been going downhill even before the fight with georia and russia. the chechen jihads are very dangerous and they learned alot of moves like bin laden. we are going to help rebuild the military in georgia an we are still sendig aid.
August 22nd, 2008 at 7:38 pmNancy Pelosi sent two Democrats to Georgia today (Friday): House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Howard L. Berman and Democratic Policy Committee Chairman George Miller.
Am I being a nitpicker, or should Pelosi have picked a bi-partisan team? I know the Georgians appreciate anyone coming to their aid right now.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,409024,00.html
August 22nd, 2008 at 9:15 pm
erin
August 22nd, 2008 at 9:21 pmWhile I would urge you to make paragraph breaks your friend, I applaud what you have written and thank you for the time you took to write it. If you have links to some of the things you mentioned they would be really helpful for someone reading through it.
Erin:
Ditto. I’d love to have some links to your info. I’m still up and about and will check back in case you read this.
August 22nd, 2008 at 9:41 pmHas anyone heard from Giorgi? I’m waiting for his first-hand observations of life on the wild side in Georgia.
August 22nd, 2008 at 9:43 pm
billie (Today I’m a Georgian)
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:15 pmI’ve been wondering too. I really do look forward to those posts.
I woke up and turned the news…russians are still in and around port city of Poti, they’ve set up several permanent checkpoints there…there is one thing what worries me is that russians could have left several GRU diversinary groups in the forests with a lot supplies and georgian army uniforms they stole form our bases. i’m sure you can tell whats the plan, although confirmation of this will come at a time of attacks under the guise of disgruntled georgian soldiers - very typical of russians to use this tactic. also one thing that is kinda on a level of conspiracy theories but for russian army general staff the month of august is a very special one. lets start from the failed attemt at stopping the signing of the act that would dissolve the USSR - it happend in August. The war in abkhazia- months prior to fighting russians have gave us shitload of tanks and APCs and artilery (for what?? ) and then all of the sudden the situation in Abkhazia has begun to deterriorate - constant raids on the trains that hauled supplies to the region, shootouts on ethnical basis etc.etc…and then Boris Yeltsin had a convo with our president Eduard Shevardnadze on how to settle the situation. the local leader of abkhazians Vladislav Ardzinba was notified prior to national guards move into the region to check the constant lootings of the cargo trains…well i can tell you that our leadership then was oblivious to the “plan” set up by a GRU/KGB to drag us into the war and as soon as georgian soldiers stepped in abkhazians and russians started to yell that this army is going to kill all of the abkhaz and russians living in the region (45% of population of the region was ethnically georgian) The start date of the war was August 14th…and now Russians are controlling this province of ours
This time i think, considering extencive connection of our govt with the west especially the US, it looks like as if it were the russians who actually got trapped. their plan was to depose our current pro-western leadership and install a puppet (Igor Giorgadze - ex-security chief, wanted for an attempt to blow up our ex-president in 1996, now lives in Moscow) this pln suffered a fiasco, so then they went for plan “B” and that is to harass the locals so the people would be forced to depose their govt themselves for this shit to stop. russian Forign Minister Lavrov have actually vocalised this doring an interview. their plan “B” also flopped. the only russian plan that will ever work will be to leave us alone and not to interfere with our daily lives and politics.
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:23 amNow I am sure that the flotilla of 7 NATO warships in our teritorial waters is sending the clear signals for russians as to who is the “real player” in the region.
now I wonder how will the russian people react to the massive investments recall form the russian economy, how will they react when the info on real losses in manpower will surface. how about the steadily falling oil prices - the main source of cash for the “Mighty Russian Federation”. i think is a prime time for some nasty ass propoganda on them russians. now it will be the liliPutins turn to fight for the power and against his own people. karma is a bitch.
Tbilisi: Russian troops hold Georgian checkpoints
Updated 0740 ET
TBILISI, Georgia (CNN) — Most Russian troops have withdrawn from eastern and western Georgia, but they still maintain some checkpoints in the country, a spokesman for Georgia’s Interior Ministry said Saturday.
Georgian police were resuming control of the city of Gori after Russian troops departed, and internally displaced people were returning, said Shota Utiashvili, an Interior Ministry spokesman.
Russian troops no longer controlled a key east-west highway, Utiashvili said, but they maintained checkpoints in the Black Sea port of Poti. The port is outside of of South Ossetia, a Georgian separatist region that is at the heart of the conflict.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/23/russia.georgia.withdrawal/
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:46 ama puppet’storm, we are waiting for the next pollichinelle,
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:13 amAngry RedNeck, I had liked to hear from you
my mail box is in profile “My soup is” blogspot.com
August 23rd, 2008 at 9:27 amComment allez-vous?
What does “polichinelle” mean? My dictionary says it means “punch.”
I’m probably using the word in the wrong context, but Giorgi informed us there are Russian diversionary forces left in the forests. They stole Georgian army uniforms. That could definitely pack a punch, so to speak.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Giorgi
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:03 pmThanks for the post. I like hearing your view on this stuff. Very helpful.
Yes, thank you Georgi. Good luck to you.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Giorgi
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:06 pmAlso, anything you could add for us on those pictures linked in the post at:
August 22nd, 2008 at 1:41 pm
well..i ve seen some of those immages before..i;ve seen even some vids taken with the cellphone cameras…from what i can tell most of the deaths (especially on the highways) were from the areal bombardment…the tanks - there are only 5 that I can count and no one can tell whose tanks are those, maybe its ours, but tussians have the same exact ones with ERA tiles..also it looks as if the bodies were set on fire post-mortem ..man its hard to watch those pics for me …burned bodies, destroyed georgian villages with the houses set on fire so people wont return, beat up seniors..there was a POW exchange y’day and we returned 20+ of their combatants for 100+ civilians, all of them - old men and women, with men showing signs of physical abuse and some torture…they take our civilians as hostages to be exchanged for military personel, and whoever is capable of holding a gun are mercilessy beaten and labled as spys or artilery fire coordinators, loock at the pic of a man drinking water - half of his head is swallen from beating….im gonna save all of those pics showing those moherfuckers faces, you never know when it will be needed for —>
by the way most of the armed personel on the pics are not russians, mostly chechens, kossacks, and ossetians (the BMP2 with writinigs on it, and riding LandRover) - they all wore a white band on the elbow … russians just looted and bombed the cities
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:56 pmnote how they love those US army issue PASGT helmets and body armor, the sleeping mats, the load vests. and dont forget the boots - i saw a pics of our fallen soldiers without footware … fucking cannibals thats what they are … very few pics out there onthe net that show any bullet wounds, the fatalities are mainly caused by the bombs, the cluster munitions and and those fucking “vacuum bombs”
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:10 pmGiorgi:
A journalist recently denigrated the “used” helmets, canteens, and boots the U.S. ostensibly gave Georgia, and also the “ancient” U.S. tanks. I wrote a comment refuting his information but I don’t think it posted.
The U.S. is always updating and creating new military equipment. The U.S. tanks given to Georgia could have been 10-years-old or two-years-old and would have been in excellent working order. The helmets and canteens are sometimes sold in American surplus stores, so obviously they’re constructed to last for years.
However, a veteran told me that U.S. military personnel are free to keep their boots. Georgian soldiers would have received new boots from the U.S. It’s no wonder the Russians stole them off the feet of the dying Georgian soldiers.
Regarding the photos, your heart must be breaking right now. We really appreciate the time you’re taking to fill us in on what the media isn’t bothering to report.
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:29 pmWhy in the fuck aren’t Russians falling from sniper bullets and anti tank mines?
August 24th, 2008 at 8:07 amcause right now it would give them the reson to stay in georgia indeffinatelly..let them leave, fuckem, what else they can do, setting up checkpoints here and there isnt a permanent stay, thats a face-saving action for the russian govt in the eyes of the russians, and then eventually they will pull the forces back, dont forget the russians still have an olympic games in 2014 to hold, right now they can build it all they want and if they dont comply the host of the games might become south korea and russians will look stupid by spending 20-30 billion dollars on the construction of the olympic village witch in the end wont be put to use…but for now, let the russians go, ass soon as they leave they KNOW that they will NEVER tread on our land…snipers will have their turn when the time is right
August 24th, 2008 at 8:47 amBille
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulcinella
Polichinelle is convenient for qualifying a political character, ie who you know… quite a few nowadays
also we say “avoir un polichinelle dans le tiroir”
August 24th, 2008 at 10:07 amtry a guess
I am sure American commanders appreciate Georgia’s restraint. It’s going to be a lot easier to push more U.S. assets and personnel into the area if the environment is not kinetic.
August 24th, 2008 at 10:37 amGood point Giorgi. Let them retreat back home then hunt them where they sleep.
August 24th, 2008 at 10:40 amfranchie:
Ohhh. Yes, it makes sense. Punch was a character often mentioned by American journalists in the 1970s, I think. I wonder why that analogy has fallen out of disfavor? It’s either considered passe or so many of our (Democratic) politicans fit that category that it would be redundant to keep mentioning it.
Did I understand correctly? Did you mention that you have a business in your home? I work from my home as well and am able to pull up this blog frequently.
August 24th, 2008 at 10:46 am“A fuel train hit a mine and exploded near the stricken Georgian city of Gori on Sunday….” (AFP)
A friend of mine who’s a war vet recently told me that the Russians are “landmine happy.” I wonder how many they’ve laid in Georgia besides this one.
“The Kremlin’s plan now appears clear: to maintain a significant military presence in Georgia, capable of choking the country’s economy and shutting down its major trade routes. It also allows Russia the option of a future invasion, should it want one.” (Guardian)
The truth comes out.
August 24th, 2008 at 11:12 amfranchie:
“Avoir un polichinelle dans le tiroir” sounds like an idiom, in which case I’d be completely lost.
August 24th, 2008 at 11:17 amas far as landmines go, we entered our military bases and there are lot of mines around, some of them hoocked up with the wiring so if you turn a light switch on there would be a chain reaction of explosions, then there are lot of unexploded ordnance to clear, but mainly i think we will need to scan the whole trail of the russian advance and checkpoint and camps, this train thing is just an example of what they have in mind. there are already fatalities from the “surprises” - 2 civilians. this is just a begining. every post-soviet military base vacated when they left the country in past years were thoughraly mined, and had cesium and other nuclear material implanted into the walls of the barracks and other facilities, at one base 20+ soldiers got a lukemia from prolonged stay in the area… and im sure, as i mentioned earlier there, could be some locals who were genrously rewarded for future actions, thats even worse, that can wait for months like sleeper cells…or they could just contact our police. im sure there are some timed devices in place too…we need some EOD teams with dogs, and that HALO Trust as well … i wonder can we sue russians for that in an international court?
August 24th, 2008 at 12:01 pmfranchie:
Polichinelle is also a very cool piano work by Rachmaninoff. I hope you’ve heard it!
August 24th, 2008 at 12:01 pmBillie, I don’t know a Punch, It sound like you understood.
the polichinelle in the drawer, the baby youv got when been pregnant, isn’t it a cute expession ?
yes I work at home, at the moment, in vacation on the ligne
Maginot
Tom, I don’t know that piece of piano, I’ll investigate when I’ll be back
my laptop sucks, well the connection
August 24th, 2008 at 1:36 pmfranchie:
Yes, I understood. “Punch” is the English nickname for Polichinelle. Some English speakers use “Punchinello.” The Wiki link really helped; thanks.
I like your idiom. We say, “Wisdom is proved right by her children.” (It’s an old adage from the Bible.)
I know the Cote d’Azure but not the “ligne maginot.” What part of France are you in? What’s the weather like?
How did your son and wife enjoy the U.S.? What did they think were the pros and cons (positive and negative)? Did they bring back a lot of photos? What state(s) were they in?
August 24th, 2008 at 2:07 pmGiorgi:
Georgia National Anthem:
Dideba zetsit kurtheuls,
Dideba kvehnad samotkhes,
Turpha iversa
Dideba dzmobas, ertobas.
Dideba tavisuplebas,
Dideba samaradiso
Kartulmkhne ersa!
Dideba chvensa samshoblos,
Dideba chveni sitsotskhlis,
Mizans diadsa;
Vasha trphobasa, sikvaruls,
Vesha shvebasa, siharuls,
Salami chesh maritebis,
Shuk gantiadsa!
In English, please?
August 24th, 2008 at 2:56 pmthats an old anthem, this is a new one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1-4uUOtW9U&feature=related
ill translate it later
August 24th, 2008 at 10:00 pmUsually the Maginot line isn’t a tourists favorite trip, only people who are interested in war monuments and strategic edifices go there, I expect. Though seems that the local authorities want that it become something like an attractions park, then they made a few public accomodations.
ligne Maginot is situated in Lorraine-Alsace, actually ; Im in the department of Moselle, (Lorraine province), at the Luxemburg borders.
Lots of excellent wines there too, the “blanc perlant”, the “Rosé”, the “pinot rouge”. I bought a few boxes of the different’s.
Tomorrow, we plan to visit the 3 hours trip Maginot line of Hackelberg, trains, refectories, machines halls, head-quaters…
My son and his wife enjoyed their travel to the US, around San Fra, where they attended to their friends’ marriage, then northern California, and Oregon coast
I haven’t seen yet their photos, they are actually too busy to sort them out ; as soon as they came back they had to go to their work, plus they have made built a new house, so their week-end is used to paint the walls, and clean a bit what will be their future garden.
August 25th, 2008 at 3:54 amfranchie:
I enjoyed your letter very much. I’ve traveled to numerous European countries but never made it to France, to my regret. Thanks for sharing.
America’s west coast is very beautiful. I’m glad your son and daughter-in-law made it to Oregon because there’s a different atmosphere compared to the Bay Area (San Fran). People in Oregon (and Washington) are more laid back, more hospitable compared to fast-paced Californians, although northern CA is great.
You talked about war memorials. Your family must have gruesome stories to tell from WWII. My in-laws spent two days skiing to Sweden from Norway in the deepest winter to escape Nazi pursuit.
Speaking of wine, I wish we had a wine icon! If I was able to use the icons, which I can’t (my software isn’t compatible, I guess), I’d give you a beer!
August 25th, 2008 at 10:05 amfranchie:
Silver Fox is my husband. I, Billie, wrote the letter to you but the Fox’s name carried over automatically in the user name box when it shouldn’t have. We have two different email addresses.
Having massive problems with our computer. It was almost impossible to pull up the blog today.
August 25th, 2008 at 11:05 amGiorgi:
I’m looking forward to the translation. I read that Georgia’s language is the oldest in the world, and it was the second country (after Armenia) to adopt the religion of Christianity.
billie
August 25th, 2008 at 11:21 amfranchie:
My husband said the words that were written are from the both of us, and he wants to give you a beer, too!
Note: My in-laws’ story was published. Their Norwegian pastor had denounced the Nazi occupiers from his pulpit more than once and torn their banners off the walls of his church. The underground had to hide him in a coffin for a couple of weeks before the end of the war.
He later became a member of Parliament.
August 25th, 2008 at 11:35 amyea it is one of the oldest spoken and written languages in the world, as well as being original not an indo-european group. as far as christianity, although it bacame an official religion only in 4th centry, we found some churches dating back from the first century. officially we adopted the greek orthodox version, the original one i guess since the first bible was written in greek (also due to a prolonged connection with the greeks - the jason and argonauts story takes place in the ancient georgian kingdom of Colkhida spanning the eastern coast of the Black Sea) we tried to find the remnants of the civilization that greeks have wrote about, and there is a place up the Rioni river valley that could be the center of that Kingdom. every time it rains some gold objects like jewelry and toys wash out of the hill. and the golden rune - thats how in georgia they collected the gold in the mountain rivers - 2 spikes with a sheep hide and the gold got trapped in it. some say the golden rune could be some sort of symbol for technology. there is very little that we know about the advanced levels of civilizations of those times, no matter were… plus i think being close to tigris and euphrates civilization and shumerians might have had some influence on us, we could very well be the part of it as shumerian writings and ancient georgian alphabet had similar characters and meaings. in the mountains there were found some very interesting carvings on the stones of the buildings. nobody cared for it up untill recently it caught some archeologists eye. the whole region is an ancient dwelling of early humans, i dont know if you heard that the oldest human remains found outside africa were in georgia around town Dmanisi - 1.8 million y.o.
August 25th, 2008 at 12:40 pmwiki has some good info of the ancient times:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Georgia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colchis
“i dont know if you heard that the oldest human remains found outside africa were in georgia around town Dmanisi - 1.8 million y.o.”
You’re really educating us. Thanks for taking the time.
Do you ever read Pat Dollard’s “Deep Thoughts” page? He mentioned today that he’s leaving on a trip overseas. It all sounds rather mysterius and important. Can’t wait for his posts.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:28 pmI guess only Cindy could go to Georgia….
August 25th, 2008 at 2:38 pmhttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2067888/posts
Does anyone have the last line?
Slaw.
August 25th, 2008 at 9:06 pmTBinSTL:
“It’s not every aspiring First Lady whose comfort zone is a war zone, but such is the case for Cindy McCain, who left Monday on a mission to Georgia to assess the civilian casualties caused by the Russian invasion.”
Thanks for the link. Think it’ll get even a passing mention from the MSM?
August 25th, 2008 at 10:01 pmI heard that thousands of jeering Georgians are protesting against the so-called Russian peacekeepers.
I’m going to translate for them: Russia, kiss my ass.
August 25th, 2008 at 11:37 pmUS warships moving to Poti….docking Wednesday.
Russia is moving more of the fleet out from Sevastopol.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2068133/posts
August 26th, 2008 at 1:44 amrussians just now officially recognized our separatist provinces…only time can tell how wise was that decision
August 26th, 2008 at 5:55 amthanks Billie, I have appreciated your kindness
le renard argenté est une rareté très précieuse, take a good care of him
August 26th, 2008 at 1:44 pmfranchie:
Je vous en prie. Ecrir un lettre bientot, s’il vous plait.
When your son’s photos are developed, will you be able to post them here?
T-Bagg posted photos yesterday that he took while on a helicopter flight. You can still see them at “Deep Thoughts.” He used something called Photobucket.
“Bonjour” to your family.
August 26th, 2008 at 2:24 pmOK, Billie
first, one of mines : the General Patton medaillon on a monument in a Thionville square
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/9831/p1020242ub1.jpg
I believe he freed Lorraine (?)
August 26th, 2008 at 3:51 pmIn case no one’s mentioned it, the French underground were fabulous. They got a lot of people out of the country, including Jews. They were on par with the Norwegian underground which is still considered to be the best in the world today.
A relative of mine who was in the Norwegian underground was one of the first to be killed by the Germans. There’s a monument in Norway dedicated to him.
August 26th, 2008 at 4:47 pmfranchie:
I got goosebumps looking at that memorial to General Patton. Where is it located? Merci beacoup.
You must have monuments dedicated to French heroes, too. When you get time, I’d like to see them. ;o)
Another round of beer, bartender! To the lady from France!
August 26th, 2008 at 4:51 pmBillie
woa,the Gal Patton memorial is in center of Thionville, the capital of Moselle
yes there are also many french memorials, to resistants that were shot. you could find them in a small village or in a middle of a forest, De Gaulle and General Leclerc have theirs too in many cities.
Lately Sarko celebrated the anniversary of the massacre of a quater of the population of “Maillé” village : 124 persons killed by the nazis, the same day Paris was liberated
Silver Fox, I suppose you were not talking of our famous Metro
about my family’s war memory, unfortunately, when they still could have been able to talk, we didn’t worry to ask them questions. Most of the elders don’t like to remind these times. Though I know that my mother participated in helping people who were fleeing from Paris by giving them food. She also had the courage (or the unconsciensness)to ride on her bicycle (30 km under planes fights and bombings) until the town of Fougères (that was almost destroyed by bombs) where her sister lived, in order to see if she was still alive.
August 26th, 2008 at 5:36 pmfranchie:
I read about Maille village where the Nazis went on a rampage as Paris was being liberated. It was in the news here recently, at least on the net. One of the survivors was sharing his experience.
Are the German tourists considered useful idiots in France? Meaning, are they not very well-liked to this day? Probably the younger generation considers their presence in a whole different light.
Silver Fox laughed when I told him about your Metro remark. He’s got something to share with you.
August 26th, 2008 at 6:49 pmFRANCHIE:
You’re right; I wasn’t talking about the French Metro. But don’t take it personally.
I wanted to add to a previous comment. The French underground saved the lives of a lot of downed American Air Force. They protected them and spirited them out of France.
August 26th, 2008 at 7:00 pmZeke Eagel:
LOL! VERY funny. A good fit, too….I thought I was going to be cole slaw this week because of all the mistakes I made. Thanks for responding.
August 26th, 2008 at 7:17 pmBillie, no, there isn’t angriness against the Germans anymore. Though, when I chose german as second foreign language in my early highschool’s, we were only a few students, most of the others started spanish, or italian. It was still taboo for our elders to think about something german.
Also the Germans are nice and polite persons as individual tourists, but in groups they likely are “invaders”, the youngers easily get “besaufen” (drunk) and would through insults at us.
Silver fox
August 27th, 2008 at 1:36 amWhat I should have visited if there weren’t the yearly vacation for the site association members (who usually maintains fort Hackenberg) after the 20th of august
http://www.maginot-hackenberg.com/accueilanglais.htm
clik on the side links you also get some videos.
I had a post about the cartoons decorations in the tunnels
http://mysoupis.blogspot.com/2006/08/la-ligne-maginot-1930-1935.html
dont’t forget to click on Dr Alzheimer ’s, he has interesting links on the subject
August 27th, 2008 at 7:23 amThe Maginot-Hackenberg is a nice site. Silver Fox enjoyed it. It brought back memories of his parents’ stories. I liked the retractable turret. (Did I read the map right? Does the Maginot Line stretch all the way to Belgium?)
I noticed that the fortress held out against the Germans until late June 1940. Of course, as Americans, we’re proud of Gen. Patton’s Third U.S. Army for breaching it in Nov. 1944 and it was nice to see that tribute.
The Soup is your blog? Is that your self-portrait, the woman with black hair and glasses?
August 27th, 2008 at 9:51 amit’s my own carricature, that I draw a few years ago, to fit the image that a lot of Americans have about us
the Maginot line stretches from Belgium to Alsace.
Belgium was the weak link ; she was supposed to resist longer to a german invasion. that’s where happened the “blizt krieg” ; with this action the Germans cheated the Maginot line and invaded France through the north
August 27th, 2008 at 10:18 amfranchie:
Silver Fox works with tourists. He can spot a German 100 feet away. Each country has it’s uniqueness and peculiarities, and he’s developed an eye for them.
The Germans are loud, travel in large groups and always wear backpacks. The French dress as if they’re going mountain climbing (in a tropical climate!), and the young Brits usually have their eyes, noses, and/or lips pierced and wear military-style boots with shorts. (They also wear devil-worship t-shirts.)
Canadians are very loud and dress like they’re still in the 1960s. Scandinavians are very haughty. Once, a Norwegian woman, who didn’t know Silver Fox speaks Norwegian, said something derogatory about him to her teenage daughter. She didn’t want her daughter practicing English on him because she didn’t consider him part of their social class.
Silver Fox responded in Norwegian and startled the daylights out of her. I’ll let you guess what he said.
Would you like to know what nationalities leave tips when traveling in Hawaii? Not the Germans, Canadians, French, Brits, Japanese, Scandinavians, or Californians.
However, people from the U.S.’s midwest, Texans, and Native Hawaiians always tip. 
August 27th, 2008 at 10:33 amthe Frenchs don’t tip because when they buy something it’s always TTC, that means that all taxes and extra “tips” are included, plus in our legal social system it’s forbidden to give extra money, cause the person who receives it will not declare it as revenue and therefore will not pay social taxes on it, a “moron” who profits on our system
because in other parts, he may get some state helps because of his/her low wages
August 27th, 2008 at 11:09 amuh, I used a lot “because”, is it good for the rythm ?
franchie:
Silver Fox said “takk” (Norwegian for thank you) for sharing why the French don’t tip. (The Japanese don’t have that custom either, but for a different reason.) It is an American custom, though, and a very important one.
What’s a curiosity to us is that Americans are supposed to know other countries’ customs when we travel, but most foreigners to the U.S. usually don’t bother. Maybe foreigners think they know everything about us because of the Hollywood movies?
Since Hollywood is so biased and ultra-liberal, that’s not a realistic way of learning about the average American.
August 27th, 2008 at 1:09 pmRegarding the Russian occupation of Georgia, what no one is reporting is that the BTC pipeline, which produces only about 1% or so of the world’s oil, has the capability of producing much, much more.
Russia wants the oil, plain and simple. And the pipeline has only been fully functional for about a year.
August 27th, 2008 at 1:14 pmWe’re turning the Russian/Georgia thread into something a little more international. I hope the staff doesn’t mind.
So the Maginot Line was a line of defense stretching beyond Alcace, France to Belgium. I think Belgium will always be your “weak link,” and not just because it’s currently the EU headquarters.
Belgium is caving big time to the radical Muslims. I understand that non-Muslim girls in Brussels have taken to wearing head scarves as a way of protection from being raped by Muslim men.
Also, Catholic bishops have allowed hordes of illegal Muslim immigrants to take over their churches. The illegals live 24/7 on their premises and hang banners with Allah’s name from their pulpits and church walls, both inside and out.
I have four links verifying the above info. and two will have to be sent in a separate comment as my system is editing them out.
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2008/06/rape-in-gare-du-midi.html
http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2008/06/brussels-less-and-less-women-on-street.html
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1051/print
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1053
August 27th, 2008 at 1:53 pmAllah Takes Over Catholic Church in Belgium:
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1053
Belgian Church Organizes Illegal Immigrants
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1051/print
August 27th, 2008 at 1:58 pmRegarding the photo of the beauty contestants, I can see the ribs on the Russian girl. She hasn’t been eating her potatoes.
August 27th, 2008 at 2:07 pmFortunately, oil is flowing through the BTC Pipeline again. It’s somewhat of a miracle that it escaped Putin’s vandalism.
August 27th, 2008 at 2:09 pmI knew “takk”, long time ago I had a danish BF
uh, Belgium isn’t even a state anymore, the Flanders want their “independance”
The Wallons are brave and humorist people, it’s a pity that they have no real “patry” ; lately they wanted to be tied to France, though if they must adopt french policy on immigration and religions, they’ll get a bit hitted
August 27th, 2008 at 2:19 pm“Walloon…designates the inhabitants of Wallonia [within Belgium] — a monolingual French-speaking territory — as opposed to Flemish.” (Wikipedia)
Does that looke like a good definition of Walloon? They want to become tied to France because of the common language?
August 27th, 2008 at 4:52 pmmost likely yes. Up to now, 1/2 of the francophones would like it.
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/08/20/ian-buruma-on-belgium-the-death-of-a-nation.aspx
August 27th, 2008 at 5:18 pmWhat percentage of Muslims occupy Georgia, and are they grouped in a specific area?
August 27th, 2008 at 7:48 pm“Russia’s agriculture minister said Moscow could cut poultry and pork import quotas by hundreds of thousands of tons, hitting American producers hard and thereby raising prices for American shoppers.”
What does Russia want us to do? Cry?
August 27th, 2008 at 7:57 pmOh there going to nuke our chickens!
I say lets boycott their ass until the poultry is running out their ears.
August 27th, 2008 at 9:36 pmWhoops missed the import part lol! Scratch that last one instead we’ll bomb there chicken hating asses with spoiled birds.
Open the bomb bay doors Ted!
August 27th, 2008 at 9:38 pmbillie,
August 28th, 2008 at 7:12 amthe total could be about 8%..about 250,000 azerbaijanis that live in the east, and 30-40,000, maybe more, in Ajara region. mostly they are not religious, and no special prefferences were demanded or offered for that matter for being muslims as far as the law goes, like accepting the sharia law in our courts as an excuse to kill women. although we do like to settle the problems outside the courtouse - especially in the mountain regions, we are predomenantly christians and if muslims dont like something they can go back, but they are not complaining so its all good. by the way i have some acuaintances that are muslim and they dont mind eating pork, drinking beer, and are not forsing their women to wear burkas.
Do you have something like our Second Amendment, where you have the right to keep and bear arms? You once wrote that you went to the police station and requested a gun to protect your family in case the Russians invaded your city.
By the way, how do you like the NATO armada in your waters?
August 28th, 2008 at 11:41 amPretty cool, huh?
This post contains a “close bold” HTML tag.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:22 pmHope that worked.
If Russia imposes quotas on the importation of American chicken, how in the hell does that raise prices for US consumers? An increase in the domestic supply of fowl–which is what would happen if producers lose a market to send their produce–would trigger a glut of domestic supply and reduce prices…substantially. The Rooskies can talk out of their asses all they desire, but they ought to stick to shit they can manipulate. Dumbasses.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:24 pmYoo-hoo, are you there? I’ve been meaning to ask you if you’ve ever visited the U.S.?
August 28th, 2008 at 1:53 pmi would say so far its a NATO flotilla with an option of growing to an armada
still enough to make russkies defecate.
August 28th, 2008 at 2:11 pmand the second amendment is something to be wished for here. historically each gorgian male upon reaching the age of 16 was trained to be skillfull with the use daggers, swords, shooting and horseriding. a dagger was a part of national dress code, so right to bear arms was ingrained in the culture for centuries..in the 1800 we still had some war games that were held in the cities that were basicaly a practice of the real war: Tbilisi was divided by the river in two halfs and the population “fought” to retake the other half with the wooden swords and hand-to-hand combat. russinas during their presence in the region didnt like that and saw it as a combat training of the “aborigenese” that posed threat to their rule and banned it along with the right to carry a weapon anywere a man wishes to. during the soviet times arming a population seemed a stupid idea, and today too many “fractions” of the society want to rule above all and giving them weapons is asking for some hostility. in the mountain regions the population is allowed to carry a weapon, not in the open but at home its not a problem. thing is the old mentality of an eye-for-eye still hold true there and noone dares to spill blood without a justified cause.vendetas there run for centuries with the whole blood-lines dissapearing. in the city there is too much of that “gangster” holdover from the soviet times, basicaly its a lack of culture of keeping and using a weapon. surely part of the population kept their AKs after the wars of the 1990s were over with. i’d say still there are lot of people who lack prudency to become a law-abiding gun owners and they might start some sh&%t. yet you can have a hunting rifle or a shotgun, but u can only carry it unloaded in the trunk with the amunition stored separately. wanted to get me a mosin-nagant carabine not long ago (before the war) but when i looked at the prices ($500-$700) i said screw that idea. funny, in the states it costs about $70-80.
yes, Miami by night : the wreck bar
For Lauderdale a few times, the cruises ships harbour, a few restaurants, big stores, got surprised that the american women didn’t look all like pallywood stars
in one of these stores an old woman stopped me and predicted me that my ship would get in trouble in the mexico golf. Indeed, we had a storm along Cozumel, the ship broke its anchor and was turning around with big bangs on the bottom of the sea, quite a nightmare !
there were no more captain or ship staff on board, neither passengers, they were all gone on a Mexico trip, just a few poor girls like me and a few old stewards that were not allowed to quit the ship.
I can tell you that I tried to remember my old prayors.
At the next passengers removing, I left the Cie, and started my working and student life on the very french soil
August 28th, 2008 at 2:31 pmMedeved says they will cut American Pork and Poultry import quotas thereby raising chicken and pork prices for American consumers. Economics 101: Greater supply due to lesser exports = lower prices for the American consumer. That is as simple as it gets unless you come from a combloc economic ideology. New name, same old comblock dumfucks running that show. Let them fall on their faces and watch as China eventually eats up their territory in the East.
August 28th, 2008 at 6:57 pm“…[I] got surprised that the american women didn’t look all like pallywood stars.”
I don’t know about pallywood (Wikipedia defines the word as “a portmanteau of ‘Palestinian’ and ‘Hollywood’”), unless you’re referring to the high ratio of Jewish people in Florida.
If you want to talk about Hollywood, it’s the worst instigator and perpetuator of stereotypes in the world. Ultra-liberals without scruples have dominated the industry for decades; they’re anti-family, anti-military, anti-Christian, anti-Jewish, pro-illegal drugs, and they’ve relegated non-whites to stereotypical bit parts. (The latter problem is improving.)
This propaganda goes around the world and is damaging to the average American who, by the way, isn’t thin and blonde with big boobs. Unless you go to L.A.
August 28th, 2008 at 9:06 pmbillie,
as I said Hollywood was the reference to learn about american culture in the sixties-seventies (musics too) ; we had in mind that the people look like as the actors in the movies.
August 29th, 2008 at 7:29 amfranchie:
Do you ever post comments on the Deep Thoughts thread? Pat’s been extending it to two days at a time. It’s a good way to start the morning (for you, it would be evening!), say bonjour to the regulars, read some informative or silly links, and carry on conversations on every conceivable subject.
Somehow I missed your comment “Hollywood was the reference to learn about american culture in the sixties-seventies (musics too).”
Yeah, I know, and everyone looked and talked like James Dean or Doris Day. NOT. And the ’70s was the birth of so-called realism and the start of the movie industry’s anti-patriotism wave.
Your average American doesn’t have a clue that he/she has been prejudged, according to movie industry standards, before they travel overseas. I have a couple of interesting first-hand experiences that I’ll save for another time.
August 29th, 2008 at 1:44 pmuh, the deep thoughts thread was sometime indigest thoughts for me, so I better leave this peculiar space to the usual custommers
well, about the voices of J. Dean or Doris Day, dunno, we had them translated into a french version
otherwise, I was also saying that the Marshall plan had a “cultural” part too, promote the american dream
August 29th, 2008 at 2:21 pmGiorgi:
Pat’s traveling and will be giving updates soon. Meanwhile, do you have some news about the Georgia/Russia situation?
August 29th, 2008 at 3:12 pmfranchie:
Iranian television broadcast some American westerns and dubbed the voices into Farsi. (It’s really amazing how a voice change adds a whole new dimenstion to an actor’s persona.)
An illiterate Iranian woman who lived near me swore that the westerns had been filmed by Iranian actors because the dubbers were so precise.
August 29th, 2008 at 6:34 pmnothing execept for we dont have a diplomatic relations with the russians anymore. russian stock market has plunged 20%, no end in sight yet for it to stop, i guess thats good news. on the home front we are trying to assess the damage to both military and civilians. to be hones the businesses in Tbilisi seem to run as usual wit the exception of that some products are unavailable, and its a prime time for the compettitive products. russians are getting scared little by little that we might do something bad this winter, when the mountain passes will be snowed in. the separatists are hopint to host 2-3 russian military bases in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. They say on September the 3rd Ossetia is expected to file in for becoming a part or russian federation - i dont know what the EU is going to decide upon, but if they choose the soft stance (that i think will happen) it will free up russia to do whatever. if it will be a harder version of declaration that could turn into a costliest land-grap in the history of any country, for the russians that is. thats why they scheduled the annexation on Sept 3rd, 2 days after EU summit. If russia will go for it the only choice we got left would be a direct military alliance with the US, hosting the US AirForce bases, missile defence systems, and saying “orevua” to the Islamic Republic of Iran…thats my thinking. you see throughout history we were always conquered by some big empire, Tbilisi was in Persian hands for 2 centuries and we got it back eventually. the events in todays world develop faster, so in my lifetime im sure we will have our regions back from russian control. i might sound way too optimistic, but my country has seen stuff much worse than today, and we managed to get back whats ours.
August 29th, 2008 at 10:41 pm“Tbilisi was in Persian hands for 2 centuries.”
Does Georgia have many Farsi speaking citizens?
I hope you get the missile defense systems soon.
August 30th, 2008 at 12:58 pmAre you and your family well? Do you get to be around any of our troops?
August 31st, 2008 at 12:46 pmits all quite for now. today we have a live “human chain” all around georgia, symbolic of the unity in the country in face of russian aggression … I’m gonna go to the coast, to Batumi, this weekend and try to see whats going on there myself. seen some of our well concealed army emplacements around the Tbilisi, in the radius of 30-40 km. if russian were gonna attack the city it would be very costly for them, i guess that’s also one of the reasons they changed their plans and stopped 40 km away from their objective. Haven’t noticed heavy US military presence, i guess they dress civilian. rumors are that some things(systems) slowly trickle in. Lets wait and see what will the EU decide on russia today. Ill keep yall posted on the developments.
September 1st, 2008 at 12:34 amBeing reported by DEBKAfile this morning EU Weenies suck their thumbs
September 1st, 2008 at 9:33 ambillie
we do not have any farsi speaking minorities, although due to their influence some persian words were being “georginized” ..
i wonder if this decision on not to decide on anything is cunning european carrot on the stick trick for russia…kinda like a good cop - bad cop tandem of the US and the EU ..only time can tell if this will not turn into a message for russians to do whatever they please
September 1st, 2008 at 11:20 am